What are your house rehab "no brainers"?

Investor · FL · Member since 2022 · 21 posts · 19 votes

Hello, everyone - I'm currently working my way through J Scott's books and taking notes. I'm a buy-and-hold investor by nature but it seems acquiring distressed properties and adding value through renovation (minor or major) is the name of the game regardless of strategy (e.g., flips, long-term rental, etc.).

📚 I'm reading J Scott's The Book on Flipping Houses to learn more about the renovation process and considerations when managing contractors, what projects provide the most value-add to customers, etc. I'm also viewing the material through the lens of my own residence to help me determine what renovations I should undertake (and in what order) to force appreciation.

🎯 My target properties are single-family homes, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, around 1500-2000 square feet, single-story, built around 1980s (suburban Class B properties in good school zone).

🧠 I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the below:

1.) Rent/Flip: How would your renovation strategy differ if the same property were to be a long-term rental versus a flip/retail sale? What would you or wouldn't you focus renovation efforts on in each scenario (e.g., painting, kitchen, bathrooms, vinyl flooring, remove popcorn ceiling, update fans, etc.)?

2.) Fencing: What are your thoughts on wood versus vinyl fencing? Do you consider vinyl fencing a value-add to the average single-family home given it's price (and durability) above typical wood fencing?

3.) Paint: What is your go-to color for interior walls? I'm partial to an eggshell white for a clean look, but I know it's not about what "I" think, it's the average customer/tenant (do you re-paint to match trends or go neutral?).

4.) Carpet: Why use carpet anywhere given it's prone to staining and not as easy to clean as vinyl? If you're renovating flooring with vinyl plank, why not incorporate it across the entire interior for a cohesive look (given the price point isn't too far off from carpet)?

5.) Countertops: Is there a countertop material (kitchen/bath) and color you'd recommend that balances durability, cosmetic appeal and affordability?

🙏 Thank you, all! Looking forward to hearing your different perspectives.

2 Reply

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Bob S.

Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

🎯 My target properties are single-family homes, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, around 1500-2000 square feet, single-story, built around 1980s (suburban Class B properties in good school zone).

🧠 I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the below:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

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Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Hello, everyone - I'm currently working my way through J Scott's books and taking notes. I'm a buy-and-hold investor by nature but it seems acquiring distressed properties and adding value through renovation (minor or major) is the name of the game regardless of strategy (e.g., flips, long-term rental, etc.).
📚 I'm reading J Scott's The Book on Flipping Houses to learn more about the renovation process and considerations when managing contractors, what projects provide the most value-add to customers, etc. I'm also viewing the material through the lens of my own residence to help me determine what renovations I should undertake (and in what order) to force appreciation.
🎯 My target properties are single-family homes, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, around 1500-2000 square feet, single-story, built around 1980s (suburban Class B properties in good school zone).
🧠 I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the below:
1.) Rent/Flip: How would your renovation strategy differ if the same property were to be a long-term rental versus a flip/retail sale? What would you or wouldn't you focus renovation efforts on in each scenario (e.g., painting, kitchen, bathrooms, vinyl flooring, remove popcorn ceiling, update fans, etc.)?
2.) Fencing: What are your thoughts on wood versus vinyl fencing? Do you consider vinyl fencing a value-add to the average single-family home given it's price (and durability) above typical wood fencing?
3.) Paint: What is your go-to color for interior walls? I'm partial to an eggshell white for a clean look, but I know it's not about what "I" think, it's the average customer/tenant (do you re-paint to match trends or go neutral?).
4.) Carpet: Why use carpet anywhere given it's prone to staining and not as easy to clean as vinyl? If you're renovating flooring with vinyl plank, why not incorporate it across the entire interior for a cohesive look (given the price point isn't too far off from carpet)?
5.) Countertops: Is there a countertop material (kitchen/bath) and color you'd recommend that balances durability, cosmetic appeal and affordability?

🙏 Thank you, all! Looking forward to hearing your different perspectives.

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck
10 Reply
Alan F.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Hello, everyone - I'm currently working my way through J Scott's books and taking notes. I'm a buy-and-hold investor by nature but it seems acquiring distressed properties and adding value through renovation (minor or major) is the name of the game regardless of strategy (e.g., flips, long-term rental, etc.).
📚 I'm reading J Scott's The Book on Flipping Houses to learn more about the renovation process and considerations when managing contractors, what projects provide the most value-add to customers, etc. I'm also viewing the material through the lens of my own residence to help me determine what renovations I should undertake (and in what order) to force appreciation.
🎯 My target properties are single-family homes, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, around 1500-2000 square feet, single-story, built around 1980s (suburban Class B properties in good school zone).
🧠 I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the below:
1.) Rent/Flip: How would your renovation strategy differ if the same property were to be a long-term rental versus a flip/retail sale? What would you or wouldn't you focus renovation efforts on in each scenario (e.g., painting, kitchen, bathrooms, vinyl flooring, remove popcorn ceiling, update fans, etc.)?
2.) Fencing: What are your thoughts on wood versus vinyl fencing? Do you consider vinyl fencing a value-add to the average single-family home given it's price (and durability) above typical wood fencing?
3.) Paint: What is your go-to color for interior walls? I'm partial to an eggshell white for a clean look, but I know it's not about what "I" think, it's the average customer/tenant (do you re-paint to match trends or go neutral?).
4.) Carpet: Why use carpet anywhere given it's prone to staining and not as easy to clean as vinyl? If you're renovating flooring with vinyl plank, why not incorporate it across the entire interior for a cohesive look (given the price point isn't too far off from carpet)?
5.) Countertops: Is there a countertop material (kitchen/bath) and color you'd recommend that balances durability, cosmetic appeal and affordability?

🙏 Thank you, all! Looking forward to hearing your different perspectives.

I'm a low volume high margin guy, retail flips only. But even in rental flips the answers are in the comps. If you're retail flipping, your product needs to appeal to the widest swath of buyers possible. Flipping rentals is about durability, and either appealing to investor buyers or your renters. Real estate is very specific to location & strategies differ. Over time you'll develop what works for you & the market your in. Best of luck in your investing
3 Reply
Christopher Dru
OP
Investor · FL · Member since 2022 · 21 posts · 19 votes
2y
Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.
0 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

While I generally agree with @Bob S.

1.) Rent/Flip:
For a flip, I would use much higher quality materials and finishes
2.) Fencing:
Wood is cheaper and quicker and will last plenty long for either a flip or LTR

3.) Paint:
I use the same colors everywhere: All Behr Marquee: Ceilings = basic 001 flat white - Baseboard, crown and trim = Swiss coffee, satin or eggshell - Walls = common areas a light cream (coconut), bedrooms a medium brown (caramel)

4.) Carpet:
No carpet anywhere ever. I will not use vinyl plastic flooring wither, it screams cheap...engineered wood is just a bit higher in price and well worth it in looks and durability. Except in an apartment rental that is...

5.) Countertops:

Countertops are quartz (not quartzite). Go to a 'prefinished' stone dealer where you can get pre-cut slabs that have finished edges. I use neutral colors like white, gray or beige.
No tile. Maybe a granite if it is not too 'busy' like the old school stuff.
Hope this helps, contact me if you have any other questions....

6 Reply
Christopher Dru
OP
Investor · FL · Member since 2022 · 21 posts · 19 votes
2y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

For a flip, I would use much higher quality materials and finishes
2.) Fencing:
Wood is cheaper and quicker and will last plenty long for either a flip or LTR

3.) Paint:
I use the same colors everywhere: All Behr Marquee: Ceilings = basic 001 flat white - Baseboard, crown and trim = Swiss coffee, satin or eggshell - Walls = common areas a light cream (coconut), bedrooms a medium brown (caramel)

4.) Carpet:
No carpet anywhere ever. I will not use vinyl plastic flooring wither, it screams cheap...engineered wood is just a bit higher in price and well worth it in looks and durability. Except in an apartment rental that is...

5.) Countertops:

Countertops are quartz (not quartzite). Go to a 'prefinished' stone dealer where you can get pre-cut slabs that have finished edges. I use neutral colors like white, gray or beige.
No tile. Maybe a granite if it is not too 'busy' like the old school stuff.
Hope this helps, contact me if you have any other questions....

Thanks so much, Bruce - This is very insightful. I see you go with swiss coffee trim rather than white. Is this a personal choice on your end or do you find the off-white trim hides wear better than white?
1 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

For a flip, I would use much higher quality materials and finishes
2.) Fencing:
Wood is cheaper and quicker and will last plenty long for either a flip or LTR

3.) Paint:
I use the same colors everywhere: All Behr Marquee: Ceilings = basic 001 flat white - Baseboard, crown and trim = Swiss coffee, satin or eggshell - Walls = common areas a light cream (coconut), bedrooms a medium brown (caramel)

4.) Carpet:
No carpet anywhere ever. I will not use vinyl plastic flooring wither, it screams cheap...engineered wood is just a bit higher in price and well worth it in looks and durability. Except in an apartment rental that is...

5.) Countertops:

Countertops are quartz (not quartzite). Go to a 'prefinished' stone dealer where you can get pre-cut slabs that have finished edges. I use neutral colors like white, gray or beige.
No tile. Maybe a granite if it is not too 'busy' like the old school stuff.
Hope this helps, contact me if you have any other questions....

Thanks so much, Bruce - This is very insightful. I see you go with swiss coffee trim rather than white. Is this a personal choice on your end or do you find the off-white trim hides wear better than white?

It's for the contrast. Beigey walls and flat white ceiling, then a creamy trim really pops...
2 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Hello, everyone - I'm currently working my way through J Scott's books and taking notes. I'm a buy-and-hold investor by nature but it seems acquiring distressed properties and adding value through renovation (minor or major) is the name of the game regardless of strategy (e.g., flips, long-term rental, etc.).
📚 I'm reading J Scott's The Book on Flipping Houses to learn more about the renovation process and considerations when managing contractors, what projects provide the most value-add to customers, etc. I'm also viewing the material through the lens of my own residence to help me determine what renovations I should undertake (and in what order) to force appreciation.
🎯 My target properties are single-family homes, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, around 1500-2000 square feet, single-story, built around 1980s (suburban Class B properties in good school zone).
🧠 I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the below:
1.) Rent/Flip: How would your renovation strategy differ if the same property were to be a long-term rental versus a flip/retail sale? What would you or wouldn't you focus renovation efforts on in each scenario (e.g., painting, kitchen, bathrooms, vinyl flooring, remove popcorn ceiling, update fans, etc.)?
2.) Fencing: What are your thoughts on wood versus vinyl fencing? Do you consider vinyl fencing a value-add to the average single-family home given it's price (and durability) above typical wood fencing?
3.) Paint: What is your go-to color for interior walls? I'm partial to an eggshell white for a clean look, but I know it's not about what "I" think, it's the average customer/tenant (do you re-paint to match trends or go neutral?).
4.) Carpet: Why use carpet anywhere given it's prone to staining and not as easy to clean as vinyl? If you're renovating flooring with vinyl plank, why not incorporate it across the entire interior for a cohesive look (given the price point isn't too far off from carpet)?
5.) Countertops: Is there a countertop material (kitchen/bath) and color you'd recommend that balances durability, cosmetic appeal and affordability?

🙏 Thank you, all! Looking forward to hearing your different perspectives.

The way you approach this problem is to attend open house.

Especially visit the recent flipped open house and make note of everything.
You could also check the picture of apartment remodeling before and after.
These are typical,repaint the kitchen cabinet, no pop copcorn ceiling, etc etc .....paint, window,etc etc
1 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

Please connect with someone doing deals, walk props , you will understand what I mean about RE not being rocket science. Correct book can provide a base of knowledge but not reality. The age of the house, no I do not agree. if an older house needs more work, so you just get it at a better price, RE is all about numbers. Again, all my props are about 100 years old. Heck they were built better back then is certain ways.
I wish you all the best
2 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Bob S.:

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

Please connect with someone doing deals, walk props , you will understand what I mean about RE not being rocket science. Correct book can provide a base of knowledge but not reality. The age of the house, no I do not agree. if an older house needs more work, so you just get it at a better price, RE is all about numbers. Again, all my props are about 100 years old. Heck they were built better back then is certain ways.
I wish you all the best

100% correct, this has been discussed a lot also in BP. Better stop reading book and start finding contractor that you can trust.
1 Reply
Adam Martin
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
I don't do any flipping so this is just for ltr. I like to buy a house that structurally is sound just dated and I agree in my area I'm looking for houses built in the 80's and newer. I don't want to have to deal with lead paint or asbestos plus I stay in the b+ to A- range and in my area that is pretty much the date range of those houses. I'm going to paint all the walls anyway and at some point lay down lvp so if the house needs work I smell a discount. I'm looking for one that has been sitting for a bit and if there are some ugly chandeliers or fixtures I just see that as a bonus to lower my competition.
1. I don't usually see popcorn ceilings but texture is common. I don't love it but I don't think I'm losing any prospects having it so I see no reason to remove it.
2. For a fence it is standard here to have a wood 3 rail fence with the wiring. I have tried renting a house before that did not have one and it was significantly harder. I allow dogs and like them due to the additional deposit of 600 plus 35/month/pet. Ideally I'm buying with a fence already installed but if not one is getting built if practical.
3. For paint all walls are Behr flat scuff defense in accessible beige which is a greyish beige. I use flat because it is significantly easier to touch up since I don't have to worry about the sheen fading. I've touched up walls that were 3 years old but in otherwise good shape outside of a couple nail holes.
4. I do all lvp everywhere except the steps where I install carpet myself. Carpet is just gross and tends to get damaged. I'm trying to turn vacant units quickly so if I buy and the carpet is in good shape I may leave it but when it is past it's useful life it has to go. I do like carpet on the steps though for extra grip to help tenants not fall and it is really cheap.
5. I have never replaced what is in there so no clue on the countertops. Generally as long as it is useable and in good shape leave it alone.
2 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Adam Martin:

I don't do any flipping so this is just for ltr. I like to buy a house that structurally is sound just dated and I agree in my area I'm looking for houses built in the 80's and newer. I don't want to have to deal with lead paint or asbestos plus I stay in the b+ to A- range and in my area that is pretty much the date range of those houses. I'm going to paint all the walls anyway and at some point lay down lvp so if the house needs work I smell a discount. I'm looking for one that has been sitting for a bit and if there are some ugly chandeliers or fixtures I just see that as a bonus to lower my competition.
1. I don't usually see popcorn ceilings but texture is common. I don't love it but I don't think I'm losing any prospects having it so I see no reason to remove it.
2. For a fence it is standard here to have a wood 3 rail fence with the wiring. I have tried renting a house before that did not have one and it was significantly harder. I allow dogs and like them due to the additional deposit of 600 plus 35/month/pet. Ideally I'm buying with a fence already installed but if not one is getting built if practical.
3. For paint all walls are Behr flat scuff defense in accessible beige which is a greyish beige. I use flat because it is significantly easier to touch up since I don't have to worry about the sheen fading. I've touched up walls that were 3 years old but in otherwise good shape outside of a couple nail holes.
4. I do all lvp everywhere except the steps where I install carpet myself. Carpet is just gross and tends to get damaged. I'm trying to turn vacant units quickly so if I buy and the carpet is in good shape I may leave it but when it is past it's useful life it has to go. I do like carpet on the steps though for extra grip to help tenants not fall and it is really cheap.
5. I have never replaced what is in there so no clue on the countertops. Generally as long as it is useable and in good shape leave it alone.

also, lvp,counter top,fence,popcorn ceiling is something like "cheap to modify" so it's always part of my todo list when I purchase/flip. I can do it all above for 8k-12k depending on the size. It's one of those "cheap" but it would rise the price substantially especially things like pop corn ceiling. If purchase price is above 1 mil nobody want to buy the home with carpet or popcorn ceiling.
0 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

Please connect with someone doing deals, walk props , you will understand what I mean about RE not being rocket science. Correct book can provide a base of knowledge but not reality. The age of the house, no I do not agree. if an older house needs more work, so you just get it at a better price, RE is all about numbers. Again, all my props are about 100 years old. Heck they were built better back then is certain ways.
I wish you all the best

100% correct, this has been discussed a lot also in BP. Better stop reading book and start finding contractor that you can trust.

So many sit on the internet, read books and learn nothing, all not reality. SO many make is more complicated. Its just numbers. Walk with someone doing deals, learn and go on your own
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Bob S.:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

Please connect with someone doing deals, walk props , you will understand what I mean about RE not being rocket science. Correct book can provide a base of knowledge but not reality. The age of the house, no I do not agree. if an older house needs more work, so you just get it at a better price, RE is all about numbers. Again, all my props are about 100 years old. Heck they were built better back then is certain ways.
I wish you all the best

100% correct, this has been discussed a lot also in BP. Better stop reading book and start finding contractor that you can trust.

So many sit on the internet, read books and learn nothing, all not reality. SO many make is more complicated. Its just numbers. Walk with someone doing deals, learn and go on your own

yeppp, it is not even a deal anymore Bob, just do it, stuff like popcorn ceiling, just remove it and add led light, it would increase home value by a lot.
0 Reply
Steve K.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

In my area the 80’s were maybe the worst period for construction: whole neighborhoods of tract shacks were slapped together as quickly as possible here during that time to meet demand. Builders cut every corner possible and used the cheapest materials and whatever labor was available. The crappiest home I’ve ever worked on by far was a 1989 build (funny because due to location it’s worth $2M now, but the build quality is atrocious). It seems to have been built by people who really did not care, and intended to only last until it was sold to the first buyer. It’s got studs on 24”, weird siding material that is basically sawdust and glue that doesn’t hold paint and blows up and turns to mush if it gets wet, a cheap slab foundation combined with expansive soil that has cracked the foundation, the layout is 80’s split-level (outdated and hard to change), the windows are crap, the roof is crap, the insulation is crap, and the hvac was set up all wrong with no air returns on some of the levels, not enough registers and returns… it’s what they now call a “sick house” for that reason (poor indoor air quality due to badly designed ventilation system).
Meanwhile, some of my 1910 properties are solid brick construction, built by true craftsmen that still have their original features and will easily last another century with minimal maintenance. So I wouldn’t use age to determine build quality, you have to look at the building and see how it was built, there’s so much more to it than just the year it was built. We had big building booms here in the 50’s after troops returned from WW2 and then again in the 80’s-90’s when all these tract shacks were slapped together. So there was a lot of poor construction practices during those periods. Learn your market and you’ll start to learn some time periods when construction was more about volume than quality, and you’ll learn which builders and which neighborhoods are better than others, which ones have expansive soils, foundation problems, etc.
It’s not really about age though in my experience, I’ve even seen brand new builds with black mold in the walls, sewer lines broken by having heavy equipment driven over them, 1inch gaps between the wall and the window that you can see daylight through, testing positive for meth, etc. Many new builds are built way worse than 100 year old well-built custom homes.
4 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

during that time, cutting every corner possible and using the cheapest materials and whatever labor was available. The crappiest home I’ve ever worked on by far was a 1989 build (funny because due to location it’s worth $2M now, but the build quality is atrocious). It seems to have been built by people who really did not care, and intended to only last until it was sold to the first buyer. It’s got studs on 24”, weird siding material that is basically sawdust and glue that doesn’t hold paint and blows up and turns to mush if it gets wet, the layout is 80’s split-level (outdated and hard to change), the windows are crap, the roof is crap, the insulation is crap, and the hvac was set up all wrong with no air returns on some of the levels, not enough registers and returns… it’s what they now call a “sick house” for that reason (poor indoor air quality due to badly designed ventilation system). Meanwhile some of my 1910 properties are solid brick construction, built by true craftsmen that still have their original
I wish all realtors that I work for is having strong building analysis like yours here, this really help in so many ways.
1 Reply
Christopher Dru
OP
Investor · FL · Member since 2022 · 21 posts · 19 votes
2y
Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @Christopher Dru:

Quote from @Bob S.:

Ok STOP!! You are way overthinking and STOP reading!! Fencing, paint, carpet!! All you need to do is connect with those doing vs reading. You will learn more in a day then 3 months reading. I have never read one RE book or been to any seminar and have done it all. RE is not rocket science though many will make it seem as it is. Buy right, fix right, sell/ rent right. Do not even attempt to put in any offers without getting to a RE meet speaking with and walking properties with someone doing deals. You do not know what the real cost should be to reno, NO book will tell you the real numbers. So many buy as they think they know what they are doing because they read a book, it will not end well. Sorry to be so direct, I always am. I tell those what they need to hear vs want. You will thank me if you listen to what I am breaching. If you try and do it all on your own, it will not end well. I see many posts weekly, "HELP, my reno costs are double,", "The ARV is much less than I thought," "The contractor took, my money, and more.

All your questions are determined by the area you are doing the deal in.

BTW why only 1500 -2k sq ft built around 1980s, is this what the book told you? Makes zero sense. All mine were built from 1910- 1940,

Good luck

Bob - I appreciate the direct feedback and advice, and I will connect with investors to discuss these concerns and not just rely on book material. I need to round out my "book knowledge" with practical, real-world experience.
The 1980s home age range is something that I chose myself. My logic is that homes in this age range or newer would have less wear and tear and more "life" than homes from the 1920s-1940s. I'm thinking a 1980s-built home would *hopefully* not require as much in-depth renovation or have as much deferred maintenance as a 100+ year home. Yes, I'd probably pay a premium for the luxury of a less intense rehab, but as a novice real estate investor, I would rather err on the side of "newer" homes than early 20th century.
Do you disagree or have other thoughts? Appreciate your insight.

In my area the 80’s were maybe the worst period for construction: whole neighborhoods of tract shacks were slapped together as quickly as possible here during that time to meet demand. Builders cut every corner possible and used the cheapest materials and whatever labor was available. The crappiest home I’ve ever worked on by far was a 1989 build (funny because due to location it’s worth $2M now, but the build quality is atrocious). It seems to have been built by people who really did not care, and intended to only last until it was sold to the first buyer. It’s got studs on 24”, weird siding material that is basically sawdust and glue that doesn’t hold paint and blows up and turns to mush if it gets wet, a cheap slab foundation combined with expansive soil that has cracked the foundation, the layout is 80’s split-level (outdated and hard to change), the windows are crap, the roof is crap, the insulation is crap, and the hvac was set up all wrong with no air returns on some of the levels, not enough registers and returns… it’s what they now call a “sick house” for that reason (poor indoor air quality due to badly designed ventilation system).
Meanwhile, some of my 1910 properties are solid brick construction, built by true craftsmen that still have their original features and will easily last another century with minimal maintenance. So I wouldn’t use age to determine build quality, you have to look at the building and see how it was built, there’s so much more to it than just the year it was built. We had big building booms here in the 50’s after troops returned from WW2 and then again in the 80’s-90’s when all these tract shacks were slapped together. So there was a lot of poor construction practices during those periods. Learn your market and you’ll start to learn some time periods when construction was more about volume than quality, and you’ll learn which builders and which neighborhoods are better than others, which ones have expansive soils, foundation problems, etc.
It’s not really about age though in my experience, I’ve even seen brand new builds with black mold in the walls, sewer lines broken by having heavy equipment driven over them, 1inch gaps between the wall and the window that you can see daylight through, testing positive for meth, etc. Many new builds are built way worse than 100 year old well-built custom homes.

Good points here, Steve, I'll definitely consider this moving forward. Thank you for sharing!
0 Reply
Christopher Dru
OP
Investor · FL · Member since 2022 · 21 posts · 19 votes
2y
Quote from @Adam Martin:

I don't do any flipping so this is just for ltr. I like to buy a house that structurally is sound just dated and I agree in my area I'm looking for houses built in the 80's and newer. I don't want to have to deal with lead paint or asbestos plus I stay in the b+ to A- range and in my area that is pretty much the date range of those houses. I'm going to paint all the walls anyway and at some point lay down lvp so if the house needs work I smell a discount. I'm looking for one that has been sitting for a bit and if there are some ugly chandeliers or fixtures I just see that as a bonus to lower my competition.
1. I don't usually see popcorn ceilings but texture is common. I don't love it but I don't think I'm losing any prospects having it so I see no reason to remove it.
2. For a fence it is standard here to have a wood 3 rail fence with the wiring. I have tried renting a house before that did not have one and it was significantly harder. I allow dogs and like them due to the additional deposit of 600 plus 35/month/pet. Ideally I'm buying with a fence already installed but if not one is getting built if practical.
3. For paint all walls are Behr flat scuff defense in accessible beige which is a greyish beige. I use flat because it is significantly easier to touch up since I don't have to worry about the sheen fading. I've touched up walls that were 3 years old but in otherwise good shape outside of a couple nail holes.
4. I do all lvp everywhere except the steps where I install carpet myself. Carpet is just gross and tends to get damaged. I'm trying to turn vacant units quickly so if I buy and the carpet is in good shape I may leave it but when it is past it's useful life it has to go. I do like carpet on the steps though for extra grip to help tenants not fall and it is really cheap.
5. I have never replaced what is in there so no clue on the countertops. Generally as long as it is useable and in good shape leave it alone.

Thank you for sharing, Adam - Carpet on steps for extra grip is good thinking.
0 Reply

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