Permitting Un-permitted Addition, Architect or Engineer Sign Off?

Question

Far be it from me to dabble in grey areas of real estate investing...but I've got a question for those investors and contractors more familiar with dealing with the city of Atlanta than I am.  I purchased a property which I knew at the time had an unpermitted addition and a Stop Work Order from the prior owner.  I knew the risk I was taking on and that the property would have to start from scratch and have everything brought into compliance with the city.

Since the addition is already built and no longer a "proposed structure," it will be included in the drawings showing the current structure of the property.  I've gotten conflicting information from different contractors about how this scenario will play out.

Since we aren't proposing building an addition, would footing inspections still be required?  Of course, there is no practical way to inspect the rebar on the footings in the current state.

If footing inspections are required, I understand certification from an engineer can be used to satisfy this requirement.  However, one contractor has had a real challenge getting an engineer to sign off on a similar project for another client, since they don't want to accept the liability.  I have an architect willing to sign off on the structure.  Would architect sign-off be an acceptable alternative to getting an engineer to sign off?

Michaela G. · Answer

I would go to the city, early in the morning before the inspectors leave, and just talk to the inspector that gave the 'stop work' order.

I found that being open with them and saying that you bought this, aware that it was unpermitted and that you want to do it right and ask for his help. They seem to have been very receptive and agreeable to that when I had to deal with things like that. Be open and give them the power and they work with you.

Jim Goebel · Answer

@Nicholas L.

As an engineer if I was able to find some equipment (ie metal detector) that validates the presence of metal, I think it would be a very safe assumption that rebar is present.  This would require a decent amount of digging to even get to that point.

Of course, I'm not currently fluent with your AHJ requirements or IRC requirements for rebar, etc.  Is this the main hurdle?

The above may give a path for an inspector to 'get out of the way' - however it'd ultimately be their call if they would allow the engineer's sign-off to essentially allow them to get out of the way from a liability standpoint.

Sounds like a bit of a pickle, but getting different answers from different contractors does not surprise me at all.

The other thing that just crossed my mind is to do a 'sample' of the foundation by cutting, jack-hammering/removing a section of wall in a controlled way.  Personally I'd want to know how the work was done, too - and you'd want to document the heck out of this to go this route.  Of course, if you don't find what you want to find... You have a whole other mess on your hands.  In either case of the above it'd be critical to engage your AHJ/inspector appropriately.

David Edwards · Answer

@Nicholas L. As an architect who has worked, and is currently working on bringing un-permitted projects through building departments I completely agree with @Michaela G.. Its going to cost you less to get through the red tape if you go talk to the city and are open about your situation. The key is that you let them know that you are willing to meet them halfway so that they can be satisfied with the safety and integrity of the structure but that you are also not working on an unlimited budget. I don't know specifically about your jurisdiction but in most areas you don't need an architects stamp for single family work of the scale described but they can act as a coordinator for the engineering you will need as well as be your pint of contact with the city.

Hopefully there's some useful info in this post, don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other general permitting or architecture questions.

Jared W Smith · Answer

City of Atlanta accepts RAs and PEs as design professionals. Therefore they surely can. Now.. if the city reviewer/examiner has a specific problem with this project because of the stop work order/un-permitted work, then that is a separate issue.

Nicholas LaGatta · Answer

Know where I could find one who would do it?

Jared W Smith · Answer

Typically this can be signed off by an architect as well. @Nicholas L. @Jay Ragland. Depends on his comfort level with structure, especially if it is a SFH. There are many Architects that complete entire homes and sign them off. This is not anything complex based on the photo you attached. I would second @Jim Goebel on scanning the walls to confirm rebar. I think any Architect or Engineer would advise this for confirmation.

Jay Ragland · Answer

@Nicholas L. You will definitely need an engineer to sign off on this

Jim Goebel · Answer

@Nicholas L.

That’s part of the challenge Nicholas, at least here in Des Moines, there are very few practicing engineers that get into residential work. As someone that has come up through the field, not very many go down the licensing track and can figure out how to be entrepreneurial enough to serve residential customers. Most settle in to medium salaried jobs and crank out commercial projects for their owners. I would help you but there’s geographical and Timeline challenges. Getting reciprocity in another state doesn’t happen right away

Jay Ragland · Answer

@Jared W Smith ok

Nicholas LaGatta · Answer

The other consideration is that we will submit the house, including the addition, on the as-built drawings.  If the addition is already on the as-built drawings (even if they don't match the tax record), what would even prompt the inspector to require footer inspections if we aren't proposing building a new structure?  I'm not sure if this is even a hurdle we would be asked to clear, given the circumstances.

Permitting Un-permitted Addition, Architect or Engineer Sign Off?

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