Turning a single-family into a multi family in Seattle Wa

Innovative Strategies
8yFollow

Turning a single-family into a multi family in Seattle Wa

Luis Felix
San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote

 My dad is selling one of his two properties in the Phinney Ridge District of Seattle. I have tried to talk him out of it, but that’s a whole other topic.  My question is, can my dad add a second unit to his single-family home? It has a Unfinished basement. And what would the permits cost? 

0Reply
143 views

Investor-friendly agents in Seattle, WA

See the agents BiggerPockets members work with in Seattle, WA.

Most Popular Reply

Michael HaasBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Sammamish, 🌧️ Seattle Investor-Agent | 🤑 Helped 400+ Clients Invest in Real Estate | 🏘️ Owns 23 WA Rentals & Airbnbs | 🏗️ Built 5 DADU's | 📈 You Can Do It Too · Member since 2016 · 725 posts · 3k+ votes
7y
The rules seem to be changing with the recent reccomendations around ADU's and DADU's. For now most people adopt the approach Brian mentions:

Originally posted by @Brian Hughes:

As for forgiveness instead of permission after getting caught

[email protected]408-439-7873
HouseHack Seattle | Michael Haas & Team572 Reviews
WebsiteView Page
3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

11 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Scott Boyd
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    The Seattle DPD site is a good place to start researching (I linked the mother-in-law page).

    http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/permits/commonprojects/...


    0Reply
  • Brian Hughes
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 275 posts · 223 votes
    8y

    Zoning and permitting issues aside,   you  might look at the habitability standards that are specified in Seattle's recent RRIO (rental registration and inspection ordinance)  as the unit would need to comply with these.    The parameters for the inspection are pretty bare-minimum for any reasonably built and maintained unit,    but if you are looking at converting a basement with low ceilings,  uneven or dirt floors,  moisture issues, no or very small windows,  etc.   the costs involved for building a legal MIL would be a lot more if you had to correct issues like these rather than if the home had a full height basement,  modern foundation, and existing roughed in plumbing for example.

    Depending on what your father (or you) want and how long the home has been owned by your father,  selling and rolling that money into something bigger could be a good move,  though on the other hand Phinney is one of the most desirable areas in the city.

    1Reply
  • Scott Boyd
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Good point about RRIO as the bare minimum (even for a non-permitted use). You find the RRIO info on the DPD site as well. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 44 votes
    8y

    Unless you have LR zoning on the property, it's not going to be currently allowed.  Seattle does have a Accessory Dwelling Unit rules; however, it requires that the property owner live in one of the units.  There are rumors that the city is going to change the owner occupancy requirements; but my guess is that won't happen quickly.  Seattle doesn't move fast on land use/zoning changes.

    If you are in LR zoning, you can convert to a duplex; however, I believe you will need to bring the entire building up to current codes as you would be changing the zoning use of the property.  If it's LR zoning; it would likely be a better use case to tear the house down and build the maximum allowable structure on the land.

    1Reply
  • Luis Felix
    OP
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    @Scott Boyd @Brian Hughes @Account Closed

    Thanks for your help guys, the zoning is sf 5000 (sf...single family) I’m guessing.  What about asking for forgiveness instead of permission? What’s the worst that could happen? Would they make us tear it out, or would it most likely be a fine?  I know there’s tons of these basement conversions is Seattle.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 44 votes
    8y

    I wouldn't recommend it.  With rental registration/inspections, the city will be able to crack down on illegal rentals.  Think about it this way.  All legitimate rentals in Seattle are now registered.  If you upset your tenant, neighbor, etc - they could anonymously report you to the city.  Or they file a tenant complaint with the city, not knowing it's an illegal unit.  That will likely get flagged by the city - they do take tenant complaints very seriously.  There are substantial fines with the RRIO program; I'm not sure they've been tested in court yet as this is a new program.   Also, I'm not sure if the city is running any 'sting' programs for unregistered rentals, but I wouldn't put it passed them.  The government already does this for fair housing laws.

    From the zoning/land use point of view; the city can make you remove/tear out the components that make it a second unit - yes it's difficult for them to track these down.  I've been told it's done mostly on a complaint basis.

    Now think about it from a personal liability point of view.  Image if a fire happened at the property and a tenant was grievously injured or died.  You'd lose everything and possibly go to jail (i.e in a wrongful death case).  

    I'm not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice...just offering common sense advice to CYA.  

    0Reply
  • Brian Hughes
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 275 posts · 223 votes
    8y

    I have no firsthand experience with this,  but from what I have gathered watching things since I started caring about this (~10y):

    As for forgiveness instead of permission after getting caught, If its an unpermitted ADU and the place was otherwise owner occupied, probably at minimum you would be required to bring the unit up to code (which could be very expensive or just plain infeasible) and pay for the inspections and some kind of fine on top of that. From what I gather they don't get too aggressive in rooting these out though just owing to the fact that making you remove it would eliminate much needed housing and force a resident to have to move out (at your cost). In the best situation you'd probably have to register the unit and make sure it passes RRIO. In any case you would be at the mercy of the City and the building department and right now both are hostile to landlords. They might choose to throw the book at you or not, it would just depend on circumstances.

    I haven't investigated this as I don't invest in SFR's would be to go ahead and build out an ADU or ADU-ish space but still rent the whole home as a unit, and advertise/describe the home in a manner that might appeal to a tenant with an extended family or roommates. (Just be sure to describe the property e.g. "two living areas" , not your desired tenant, fair housing and all). You might also allow the tenant to sublet that area, but that is very risky for lots of reasons, and this would constitute a (very) grey area in the law.

    In situations like this the biggest risk of getting 'outed' is probably the neighbors.   Talk to the owners,  see how many houses are already rentals,  and generally do your best to be as good a neighbor and owner as possible if you try it.    If the house on either side is already a boarding house,  you are probably fairly safe.    If one or the other is the neighborhood prude,  beware.

    0Reply
  • Luis Felix
    OP
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    @Brian Hughes

    This was super helpful 

    Thanks much! 

    So building this ADU to add equity to make more on the sale would not be worth the potential headaches it could bring?

    0Reply
  • Caitlin Bigelow
    Specialist · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 34 posts · 20 votes
    8y

    @Luis Felix I know I've been reading they're best for creating long term wealth not short term $. Anyone have any info on how much value / ROI brings to a property by adding an ADU (either through a garage conversion - or stand alone)

    For example, if you put in 100K into an ADU would your property value increase by 70K?

    0Reply
  • Michael HaasBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Sammamish, 🌧️ Seattle Investor-Agent | 🤑 Helped 400+ Clients Invest in Real Estate | 🏘️ Owns 23 WA Rentals & Airbnbs | 🏗️ Built 5 DADU's | 📈 You Can Do It Too · Member since 2016 · 725 posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    The rules seem to be changing with the recent reccomendations around ADU's and DADU's. For now most people adopt the approach Brian mentions:

    Originally posted by @Brian Hughes:

    As for forgiveness instead of permission after getting caught

    [email protected]408-439-7873
    HouseHack Seattle | Michael Haas & Team572 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • Brian Hughes
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 275 posts · 223 votes
    7y

    Yes, Seattle's city wide zoning change affecting SFR zoning basically converts most lots into potential triplex sites: The main home, one or two ADUs, which can consist of two attached or one attached and one detached. There is no longer an owner occupancy requirement, but of course RRIO, normal building standards, and applicable landlord/investor punishment ordinances apply.

    I haven't confirmed this but I don't think they allow subdividing the lot (unlike with L zoned properties like the duplex I sold recently which is destined to become four townhouses on individual postage stamp lots)  - this might be the saving grace that prevents everything from getting mowed down,   though anybody looking for a starter house or fixer upper is now going to be competing with investors wanting to convert the place to a triplex.

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free