A house hack that is virtually impossible to insure?!?!

A house hack that is virtually impossible to insure?!?!

Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes

So, Im house hacking.  In August I bought a 6 bedroom house in Tacoma.  My intentions from the get-go were to rent 5 rooms and live in one until my 1 year seasoning period is over, then rent my room and move into the next house hack.  Im finding out that my current insurance is not adequate for this.  In the last 2 days, I have called no less than 20 insurance companies, agent, brokers, etc.  They are all telling me the same thing 'We won't touch it!'.  Im hearing various reasons for not being able to insure it, but the common theme is the amount of tenants (up to 6 at any given time), and the fact that the kitchen and bathrooms are shared.  The fact that I am living here as my primary residence is only complicating things.

It seems like regular homeowners insurance is, for the most part, OK with up to two boarders at a time.  

I don't qualify for a regular landlord policy because I live here and the number of potential unrelated tenants. 

I don't qualify for a commercial policy because each "unit" doesn't have its own kitchen and bathroom.  

I don't qualify for a short term rental policy because my leases are at least 30 days, and for the number of potential unrelated tenants.

I know that I am not the only one using this house hacking strategy, and that somewhere out there in the big blue yonder, there is an agent that can help me.

Since I know it's going to come up... My leases are month to month because the city has different requirements for short term rentals vs long term rentals.  I'm currently looking into the city requirements for short term rentals, but I would like to stick with longer term tenants to minimize turnover.

The one work around that I got from a reputable agent with one of the bigger companies, was to get a regular homeowners policy with higher limits and require renters to get a renters liability policy( which I already do) of at least $500k with me listed as additional insured AND the renter polices need to be with him.  It makes sense and the agent is willing to put it in writing.  I just feel like a policy that is specific to my situation would help me sleep at night.

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Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@James Krusmark How interesting, I would not have anticipated insurance issues like you describe!  However, I think the "box" you fit in is a boarding house - while I think different localities have somewhat different definitions for what that is, to my knowledge that's the best fit for what you're trying to do.  I'd recommend researching Tacoma's definition, and if the shoe fits, start looking for a policy specific to that - maybe having a term to attach to what you're doing will help insurance agents pinpoint the right policy for you.  There's got to be something!

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  • Port Orchard, WA · Member since 2017 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    6y

    Good luck...

    I had "trouble" even getting insurance on a simple quadplex in Idaho. I had to call local places. It sounds like you've already tried that... This is a great question and interesting situation that I'm mostly here to follow. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    Thanks Jeff.  Had I known insurance was going to be so difficult, I might have went with a different strategy to get started in real estate investing.

  • Real Estate Agent · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @James Krusmark How interesting, I would not have anticipated insurance issues like you describe!  However, I think the "box" you fit in is a boarding house - while I think different localities have somewhat different definitions for what that is, to my knowledge that's the best fit for what you're trying to do.  I'd recommend researching Tacoma's definition, and if the shoe fits, start looking for a policy specific to that - maybe having a term to attach to what you're doing will help insurance agents pinpoint the right policy for you.  There's got to be something!

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @James Krusmark, @Julie McCoy nailed it! 

    With the way you are operating this property, the insurance carriers  would underwrite this as a boarding house (multiple nonowner occupants renting rooms/units that do not have their own kitchen and bath).

    This can be written as a commercial policy, but if you have a residential loan, not sure if your loan will accept insurance that is not an official Homeowners policy.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    According to the city, its a rooming house. It would be a boarding house if I provided meals. The insurance companies so far have not cared what I call the house. Their main concerns are the number of unrelated people living here, shared facilities, and owner occupancy. I've tried calling it a rooming house, a boarding house, a house share.  I've asked about roommates vs renters. 

    I suppose I could go the same route a bed and breakfast would go for insurance. Then I run into the sort term long term rental situation and have to deal with different licensing with the city and the state, and I'm not looking for that kind of tenant turn over.

  • Eastern Mass & Central Maine · Member since 2009 · 252 posts · 135 votes
    6y

    You can turn your property into a bonafide rooming house by quitclaiming it to an LLC and renting a room from the LLC.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    Can you elaborate on how an LLC could change the status of what I'm doing and make it insurable?

  • Real Estate Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2016 · 922 posts · 533 votes
    6y

    @James Krusmark

    This advice may be enigmatic and non helpful for your current situation, however consider the importance of intent.  Consider that before you locked into a 'strategy' with this house (ie: made the decision) you could have gotten a regular homeowners' policy.  Next, consider that the next time you think about doing something, think about the order and think about how you can not lock into your 'intent' so that you can ensure that you can defensibly get that homeowners' policy.  If you continue on in RE investing there will be other examples of this advice where it'll be apt and valuable.

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Krusmark:

    Can you elaborate on how an LLC could change the status of what I'm doing and make it insurable?

    James, the answer is you insure it as a rooming house.  Unless you stop renting rooms to unrelated people on a long basis, you are stuck with that classification.

    If you continue to rent the rooms this way, and you go with a policy not meant for a rooming house, you run the risk of the insurance carrier denying claims on the basis of misrepresentation.  

    Best of luck with it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    What I'm saying is the insurance companies dont care if I call it a rooming house, a boarding house, or a brothel. They are telling me that I can not insure an owner occupied single familiy residence with more than two boarders/renters/roommates/tenants.

    I can I sure it as a 6 unit apartment building without issue, IF it wasn't owner occupied.

    I found a couple of agents that can write a policy that will work, I just want to get all the possible options and choose the best one. 

  • Specialist · Member since 2019 · 137 posts · 125 votes
    6y

    I believe, if you have a certain legal structure where you are renting it from a company and the unit is no longer in your name but transferred to say, an anonymous trust, then it can be turned into a commercial non-owner occupied property.  You would most likely need to have a property manager. The proper structure needs to be set up and you would have to ensure your accounting, how rents are collected and by what entity, etc. are done properly.   However, in the end if your local insurer is able to structure something you are happy with then perhaps you go with that and make peace with the fact that it isn't exactly as you hoped.  Legally, you personally don't have to own that property in your name and there are other options.  Research would have to be done if those options would satisfy the insuring requirements and local authorities with some counties/areas less flexible than others.  New Orleans for example, is one city that has many of these rooming house types of situations where owners live in one area, typically an addition or carriage house, with the larger main house subdivided where tenants share main communal areas.   

  • Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @James Krusmark

    I think what Alex G was saying was that the LLC would own the property and you would simply be a renter of your LLC. Would this uncomplicate the issue with this also being your dwelling as the homeowner?

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