How to invest 200k in Washington State for highest cash flow?

How to invest 200k in Washington State for highest cash flow?

Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 3 votes

Hello,

My parents have recently asked me to become the POA and Representative Payee for my grandmother. My grandmother has been in an adult family home for the past two years out of necessity. Prior to the adult family home, my grandmother had a savings of over 300k. She now has a savings of 200k due to the AFH costs. Once the money runs out, Medicaid will cover her expenses, however this will eliminate all flexibility that private pay provides. My parents know I am passionate (though inexperienced) about real estate and have asked me if I would be interested in solving this problem. My solution is to purchase rental properties. In order to cover my grandmothers expenses (after social security), I need to make as close to $2800 dollars in cash flow as possible. One concern I have with leveraging, is that if something goes wrong, I will not be able to cover both the rental property expenses and my grandmother's bills at the same time, so I would prefer to make cash purchases. Does anyone have any suggestions for how they would invest 200k in order to get the most cash flow possible, specifically in Washington State?

2Reply
77 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 68 votes
9y

Hi @Angelea Weihs

I have to pretty much agree with the above opinions. You're looking for a simple 16.8% ROI and, in the Puget Sound market, even 12% (the 1% rule) is pretty much non-existent. The ratio between rents and property costs just doesn't pencil out. I wish that I could offer an easy solution.

However, while this isn't strictly a real estate subject, there's another consideration that you should get clear on: Medicaid's strict requirements. In addition to an escalating need for assistance care, medical costs can explode in the final years. If I recall correctly, about 90% of a person's medical costs occur in the last five years of life, ultimately to no avail. 

I went through a similar situation with my elderly mother back in the late 90's: She owned a F&C house worth about $175k at the time, where my wife (at the time) and I were living. Mom was in an assisted living center at a fairly ambulatory level and her $1,600 social security checks covered that cost. 

But, her condition slowly deteriorated and the facility notified us that she would have to be moved to a different section that provided a lot more help and that the cost was going to significantly exceed her SS income. Clearly, there was a financial pinch coming. Not wanting to lose the house, our first thought was for her to quit-claim it to us and let Medicaid pick up the final costs. 

But, that idea turned out to be a non-starter: Medicaid is onto this type of maneuver and they backdate financial resources - if I recall, it was for three years. Whatever type of financial arrangements had been made in that time period would have to be unwound or Medicaid simply would not pick up any costs. For Medicaid to step in , the patient has to be well and truly penniless and have also been so for the backdate period. We met with an attorney who specializes in this subject and he could offer no solutions, which was a complete waste of $250. 

Ultimately, we ended up doing the quit-claim, moving her back home and using her SS checks to hire caregivers to drop in several times a day for the truly gritty needs. The attorney never mentioned this option. This was risky in that, if her needs got much greater, we'd have had to sell the house. But, it at least forestalled that eventuality. 

Finding reliable caregivers was challenging, but we eventually landed a good private caregiver, who did daily rounds, for mornings and evenings, plus a student nurse who was exceptional for mid-days. (If I had to do this again, I'd start looking for caregivers at nursing schools.)

Ultimately, the timing "worked out" and, while exhausting to manage, we didn't have to sell the house. And, my mother passed peacefully in her home, with family nearby, about the best that any of us can hope for. 

This may not be an option in your case, but it's the only Medicaid workaround that I know of that doesn't require years of pre-planning that we don't know to do until it's too late. Your only option may be to give up on the idea of preserving the $200k wealth, spend it down and let Medicaid to its thing. 

Good luck!

See this reply in the discussion

24 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
    9y

    @Angelea Weihs.  Awhile back I was looking at condos in Olympia.  My mom is from Washington state, near my vernon.  We spent our Summer's driving from San Diego to Seattle and onward.  Washington was so pretty during that time of year.  Since I was a kid, I didn't realize the other 9 months 'sucked'.  Lol.  I was kind of looking for a summer place at the time, but moved onto something else.

    Based on what I was looking at during that time, I doubt you could cover $2800 a month income on a $200k spend.  But I have been wrong at least once.  ;-)

    In any event, you probably need to get away from the sea-tac area.  The minus is that as values drop, so do rents and appreciation.

    Best of luck,

    AG

  • Investor · Walla Walla, WA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 19 votes
    9y
    Angelea Weihs If I was in your shoes I would invest in a quadplex in Eastern Washington. It could get you really close to your $2800 if not all the way. It also spreads your risk out.
  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    You're trying to make 1.4% per month without leverage?  Without a rehab?

    Buy in Midwest hoods or borrow.  Either way, sorry to say, even little Wenatchee is too expensive but best of luck!

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 77 posts · 46 votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan you bring up an important issue - can/should she leverage the trust's cash in a loan? 

    And this is where I stand back and let people with more financing knowledge talk...    

    :)

  • Investor · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Yes,

    You will need to either leverage or look into some cheaper markets. However, that is not to say that it's not possible; For example, here in the Wenatchee Market, just east of the mountains I just completed a nice transaction that would cash flow about 2,750 - 3000 a month but the total investment on that transaction was 340k and it did involve a little bit of development/rehabbing.

    With the right deal, leverage is definitely your best option. On the transaction that I mentioned above we leveraged the property so total investment is only about 110K (after down payment and rehab) and it cash flows about 1,500 a month. (Now you'd be getting closer to that 2,800 a month with 200k)

    Another option for you is go out and use her as a private lender for some small fix and flips deals until you have enough capital to invest enough for a 2,800 spread. She can earn the 10% on her money for the first while when you do some fix and flips, make yourself equity partners in the deals so your getting paid too as well as building her capital reserves.

    just keep in mind, if the deal doesn't provide good cash flow with leverage, you probably shouldn't be doing the deal anyways. ;)

    Sorry for the long post, happy investing! :)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    when your dealing with the elderly's money its about security before return.

    and real estate is RISK  partnering on rehabs or development deals is HIGH risk.

    lending in the right situations can be very safe... as well as buying B plus grade properties.

    without leverage 2,800 a month cash flow on 200k purchase is tough in the better areas.

    you may look as someone suggested in the smaller far eastern Washington areas.. or up towards Omak or Kettle falls  and down towards Walla Walla.. I would suggest Yakima but you have to be very careful there with tenant selection..

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    I wouldn't buy here for cash flow. 

    They can be found- but it's going to take a lot of time/money/ rehab to find them. Our markets here are awful for cash flow. 

    Tacoma is a decent spot though- I'd say you can start doing a direct mail campaign directed at older MFH in that area. Drive around and start writing down all the duplex/fourplexes you see. Check the assessor website- find one's that haven't been sold recently. Have equity. Absentee owner even better. Send some mailers. This is basically what I'm doing up here in Snohomish because nothing on market cash flows well. 

    I think a 4 plex of 1 bedrooms will cash flow better than a duplex of 2 bedrooms (at least up here). 

    Also, if you could put down 25% you could go into multi-unit commercial and likely hit even better cash flows. 

    She can also look into a DST- tend to cash flow about 5%- feel free to send me a message if you'd like more information on this.

  • Investor · Sammamish, WA · Member since 2013 · 94 posts · 84 votes
    9y

    I agree with @Jay Hinrichs very much regarding Yakima being a good place to find cash flow but having to be very careful with tenant selection.  I'm currently managing a 4-plex in Tacoma for @Amy Greger.  She just purchased it recently, so you might ask her about her purchase and cash flow.

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    $2800 after vacancy, maintenance, and Repairs on 200k without unsafe leverage is a very unrealistic goal in the PNW. Your real goal is to get the best, safe return possible. What arbitrary figure you desire as a return is irrelevant, in the same way people set silly sales prices on their property based on how much they owe.
  • Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 68 votes
    9y

    Hi @Angelea Weihs

    I have to pretty much agree with the above opinions. You're looking for a simple 16.8% ROI and, in the Puget Sound market, even 12% (the 1% rule) is pretty much non-existent. The ratio between rents and property costs just doesn't pencil out. I wish that I could offer an easy solution.

    However, while this isn't strictly a real estate subject, there's another consideration that you should get clear on: Medicaid's strict requirements. In addition to an escalating need for assistance care, medical costs can explode in the final years. If I recall correctly, about 90% of a person's medical costs occur in the last five years of life, ultimately to no avail. 

    I went through a similar situation with my elderly mother back in the late 90's: She owned a F&C house worth about $175k at the time, where my wife (at the time) and I were living. Mom was in an assisted living center at a fairly ambulatory level and her $1,600 social security checks covered that cost. 

    But, her condition slowly deteriorated and the facility notified us that she would have to be moved to a different section that provided a lot more help and that the cost was going to significantly exceed her SS income. Clearly, there was a financial pinch coming. Not wanting to lose the house, our first thought was for her to quit-claim it to us and let Medicaid pick up the final costs. 

    But, that idea turned out to be a non-starter: Medicaid is onto this type of maneuver and they backdate financial resources - if I recall, it was for three years. Whatever type of financial arrangements had been made in that time period would have to be unwound or Medicaid simply would not pick up any costs. For Medicaid to step in , the patient has to be well and truly penniless and have also been so for the backdate period. We met with an attorney who specializes in this subject and he could offer no solutions, which was a complete waste of $250. 

    Ultimately, we ended up doing the quit-claim, moving her back home and using her SS checks to hire caregivers to drop in several times a day for the truly gritty needs. The attorney never mentioned this option. This was risky in that, if her needs got much greater, we'd have had to sell the house. But, it at least forestalled that eventuality. 

    Finding reliable caregivers was challenging, but we eventually landed a good private caregiver, who did daily rounds, for mornings and evenings, plus a student nurse who was exceptional for mid-days. (If I had to do this again, I'd start looking for caregivers at nursing schools.)

    Ultimately, the timing "worked out" and, while exhausting to manage, we didn't have to sell the house. And, my mother passed peacefully in her home, with family nearby, about the best that any of us can hope for. 

    This may not be an option in your case, but it's the only Medicaid workaround that I know of that doesn't require years of pre-planning that we don't know to do until it's too late. Your only option may be to give up on the idea of preserving the $200k wealth, spend it down and let Medicaid to its thing. 

    Good luck!

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Thank you all so much for your suggestions! I understand now that I may need to be more flexible with my options if I'm going to do this at all. Is it a realistic goal then to reach my cash flow target while minimizing risk if I buy multifamily with leverage In B+ neighborhoods in the Tacoma or Eastern Washington areas? To clarify, I understand that I may need to supplement my grandmother's bills with my own income, however from a financial perspective, my family gains more from preserving her funds than the the amount I would lose every month. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Angela,

    I live Tacoma myself.  With your budget of $200k and income at 2800, in not sure it's truly feasible.  However, I've been able to come close to those returns outside of WA.  We own multiple rentals and have done many flips working in a partnership with Fortune Foreclosures.  Properties we get are all in for 40-60k.  But we invest in areas where the returns are almost 3x as good, plus allows you to diversify should anything ever happen to one property.

    Maybe we can connect for coffee as I believe we have similar interests.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    @Angelea Weihs

    I just bought a Tacoma 4-plex for $408K.  The 4-plex is cashflow positive, but not $2800/month.  I agree it'd be hard to accomplish in the Puget Sound area.

    I also started investing out-of-state in Indiana solely for cashflow. CAP rate is much higher in that area, but growth is relatively flat. Ping me if you want to chat some more!

  • Real Estate Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 156 posts · 141 votes
    9y

    @Angelea Weihs what is the minimum you would like to generate a month? In B+ neighborhoods of Tacoma it's very hard to find something that will generate even 10% ROI with financing after taking into account management, vacancies and maintenance.

    Reading what Chris wrote above, it also looks like this money should be in semi liquid form, in case the expenses increase later on. So, rental property might not be the best option, especially out of state where the cash flow might be higher, but it's harder to sell it when needed.

  • Spokane, WA · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @Angelea Weihs I think you're fighting an uphill battle.  I agree with the above statements about minimum risk for your grandmother.  Out of the 200K, I would save out 6 month expenses for your grandmother.  Then with what you have left subtract 10-12% for costs associated with getting a property.  I think at that point the amount that you would need for a return would be extremely high.

    While there are situations where it might be possible, keep in mind your passion is going to pay the bills and your inexperience is a concern.  

    Unfortunately, you would need to get it right the first time.  

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Adam Owens

    I'm currently out of state but I was beginning research on the Tacoma area for investing. You intrigued me with your comment here, I'd like to learn more about that as well.  I'm a little far away for coffee at the moment, but PM me if you have time for a conversation.

  • Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Thrush send me a connection and let's talk via PM

  • Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Thrush I just sent you a connection.

  • Investor · Redmond, WA · Member since 2016 · 267 posts · 110 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Angelea Weihs:

    Hello,

    My parents have recently asked me to become the POA and Representative Payee for my grandmother. My grandmother has been in an adult family home for the past two years out of necessity. Prior to the adult family home, my grandmother had a savings of over 300k. She now has a savings of 200k due to the AFH costs. Once the money runs out, Medicaid will cover her expenses, however this will eliminate all flexibility that private pay provides. My parents know I am passionate (though inexperienced) about real estate and have asked me if I would be interested in solving this problem. My solution is to purchase rental properties. In order to cover my grandmothers expenses (after social security), I need to make as close to $2800 dollars in cash flow as possible. One concern I have with leveraging, is that if something goes wrong, I will not be able to cover both the rental property expenses and my grandmother's bills at the same time, so I would prefer to make cash purchases. Does anyone have any suggestions for how they would invest 200k in order to get the most cash flow possible, specifically in Washington State?

    This is what I will do.

    - 6 month expense, lets say $30K in cash.

    - $100K in low risk cash on cash return investment. One of the easy way to get into this, is use crowdsourced platform such as realtyshares and realtymogul for Hard Money Lending, or LendingClub and Prosper for consumer lending. Pick notes that mature about an year. You will have the option of monthly interest or total on accrual. You can expect 8%-12% returns based on notes. You can also consider REIT stocks for a portion of a $100k pool since they generate excellent cash flow.

    - Leverage the remaining $70K into a multi units. In secondary markets such as Tacoma you can buy 4units with the cash.

    Second and third bucket should give you close to total $2k cash flow per month. Its not getting $2800 exactly, but pretty close.

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Rudy Manna I really like the detailed and risk-tiered strategy you lined out here. I'd like to learn a little more about the first two steps, and hear about your experiences with the 3rd one, as I'm currently researching multi-family projects in the Tacoma area myself.  PM me if you have time to chat please.

  • Investor / Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    9y

    Consider private lending. They typically get you higher returns, are safer, and have much less headaches than other investments, if you do it right. But even then, it's hard to get more than 12%.

  • Issaquah, WA · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Hey Angela,

    I own a Real Estate Group in the Seattle area and do some investing as well. It is definitely intimidating to get started! Just do your research and be ready when the time is right!

    Lucas

  • Rental Property Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Go online and look at Oak Harbor-- It's a Navy town so you have many move in and move outs but the prices on duplexes and 4 plexes will get you close to your numbers.  It's a weird little niche.

  • Rental Property Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Example-- https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Oak-Harbor-W...     

    But you will have to consider the cost of repairs on any unit-- if you need the cash for medical care you could always run into trouble with real estate. I still always feel real estate is a solid investment. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.