Live in MA, already investing in MA, considering RI?
Marshfield, MA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 5 votes
Live in MA, already investing in MA, considering RI?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Agent · New Bedford, MA · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 8 votes
9yI am a real estate agent showing 9+ Multi-family properties for sale, and my family HH'd one 3 Unit in the South End of New Bedford. I cannot speak on the RI market.
The New Bedford market is hot with House Hackers wanting to purchase the "Nice" buildings. It is surprising to me (even though I did the same) that the HH are buying into, in my opinion, some tricky neighborhoods. That being said, New Bedford doesn't really have "tough" neighborhoods, but they have "tough" streets. You have these really beautiful Homes, with gardens & all on one street and just one street over is a dump. The only real way to find out is to go to that street on a sunny/warm weekend and look around. You'll know if its right for you. We bought an A+ building on a tough street (really tough) and have had no problems. We got an amazing deal on a building with new siding, windows, roof, heating system and more!
Because I am working with some 80+ tenants, mostly TAW, some Section 8, I may have some insight here. For the most part, the tenants are okay. Out of the 80 I have met, there are about 7 that stick out in my mind as people I would want out if they were my buildings, even if they were paying their rent. I met a few tenants on Section 8, again, there are good and bad .. I would say you really have to make decisions person to person. I love the Section 8 scenario, if you are ready to deal with inspections & complaints readily, you'll be ok. Having a bad tenant can ruin a whole building of tenants. I love when I go to a building where the tenants are mutually respectful to each other, what a difference it makes to the building, the landscaping, the hallways, basements. It seems that when one tenant is given "careful" responsibility, they kinda keep everything in line.
HH cannot buy the properties that do not meet their FHA guidelines, (peeling paint, needs new roof, utilities cannot be turned on, etc.) so that's what investors have been looking at. I've been showing properties in the $77-150k range to these investors.
Hope this was helpful, I am interested in RI also, so hopefully someone from that market will chime in soon!
Current Market 1/13/17
2-3 Units New Bedford, Dartmouth, Westport, Acushnet
ACTIVE ... Multi-Family Listings: 90 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 2,701.28 Avg. List$: $199,151 * Avg. List$/SqFt: $79 Avg. DOM: 174.58
SOLD ... Multi-Family Listings: 78 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 2,652.16 Avg. List$: $206,803 * Avg. List$/SqFt: $83 Avg. DOM: 88.08 Avg. DTO: 64.94
* Auction listings are not included in this total Avg. Sale$: $196,974 Avg. Sale$/SqFt: $79
4-9 Units New Bedford, Dartmouth, Westport, Acushnet
ACTIVE: Multi-Family Listings: 15 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 4,115.87 Avg. List$: $216,325 Avg. List$/SqFt: $55 Avg. DOM: 228.73 Avg. DTO:
SOLD: Multi-Family Listings: 7 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 4,905.29 Avg. List$: $229,971 Avg. List$/SqFt: $49 Avg. DOM: 361.71 Avg. DTO: 302.00 Avg. Sale$: $207,321 Avg. Sale$/SqFt: $44
23 Replies
- Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
You should consider attending RIREIG, I believe @Anthony Thompson is very active in that group.
- Real Estate Agent · Centerville, MA · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 18 votes9y
Have you looked into/ considered the New Bedford/Fall River areas for multi families? Thereis a ton of inventory there that could fit your criteria
- Marshfield, MA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 5 votes9y
I have noticed the inventory of multi families in New Bedford and Fall River. Cheap, too! My concerns are the location and the safety within the communities. Anyone investing in the area please chime in. If you are renting property in the New Bedford and Fall River area, please let me know what it is like. I have questions like: How are your tenants? Are they section 8 tenants? Do they attract negative attention to your property? Any input is highly appreciated.
@Ann Bellamy Thank you Ann. Let me know if I can help you with any questions you may have.
- Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2014 · 399 posts · 300 votes9y
Hi @Steve Porcello, yes I currently invest in Fall River and am a local real estate agent as well. The market is really picking up right now and the good deals are getting harder to find, but I am in the process of buying 3 buildings right now for a total of 9 more units to my existing 13 units.
I only have 1 section 8 tenant an haven't had a major issue with the program. I feel that the quality of the landlord is what dictates the quality of the tenants.
I have a local Real estate investing meetup every second Thursday of the month which is this week at my office located at 552 N Underwood Fall River. The meeting starts at 6pm and you are welcome to join us.
Cheers to your success!
- Real Estate Agent · New Bedford, MA · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 8 votes9y
I am a real estate agent showing 9+ Multi-family properties for sale, and my family HH'd one 3 Unit in the South End of New Bedford. I cannot speak on the RI market.
The New Bedford market is hot with House Hackers wanting to purchase the "Nice" buildings. It is surprising to me (even though I did the same) that the HH are buying into, in my opinion, some tricky neighborhoods. That being said, New Bedford doesn't really have "tough" neighborhoods, but they have "tough" streets. You have these really beautiful Homes, with gardens & all on one street and just one street over is a dump. The only real way to find out is to go to that street on a sunny/warm weekend and look around. You'll know if its right for you. We bought an A+ building on a tough street (really tough) and have had no problems. We got an amazing deal on a building with new siding, windows, roof, heating system and more!
Because I am working with some 80+ tenants, mostly TAW, some Section 8, I may have some insight here. For the most part, the tenants are okay. Out of the 80 I have met, there are about 7 that stick out in my mind as people I would want out if they were my buildings, even if they were paying their rent. I met a few tenants on Section 8, again, there are good and bad .. I would say you really have to make decisions person to person. I love the Section 8 scenario, if you are ready to deal with inspections & complaints readily, you'll be ok. Having a bad tenant can ruin a whole building of tenants. I love when I go to a building where the tenants are mutually respectful to each other, what a difference it makes to the building, the landscaping, the hallways, basements. It seems that when one tenant is given "careful" responsibility, they kinda keep everything in line.
HH cannot buy the properties that do not meet their FHA guidelines, (peeling paint, needs new roof, utilities cannot be turned on, etc.) so that's what investors have been looking at. I've been showing properties in the $77-150k range to these investors.
Hope this was helpful, I am interested in RI also, so hopefully someone from that market will chime in soon!
Current Market 1/13/17
2-3 Units New Bedford, Dartmouth, Westport, Acushnet
ACTIVE ... Multi-Family Listings: 90 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 2,701.28 Avg. List$: $199,151 * Avg. List$/SqFt: $79 Avg. DOM: 174.58
SOLD ... Multi-Family Listings: 78 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 2,652.16 Avg. List$: $206,803 * Avg. List$/SqFt: $83 Avg. DOM: 88.08 Avg. DTO: 64.94
* Auction listings are not included in this total Avg. Sale$: $196,974 Avg. Sale$/SqFt: $79
4-9 Units New Bedford, Dartmouth, Westport, Acushnet
ACTIVE: Multi-Family Listings: 15 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 4,115.87 Avg. List$: $216,325 Avg. List$/SqFt: $55 Avg. DOM: 228.73 Avg. DTO:
SOLD: Multi-Family Listings: 7 Avg. Liv.Area SqFt: 4,905.29 Avg. List$: $229,971 Avg. List$/SqFt: $49 Avg. DOM: 361.71 Avg. DTO: 302.00 Avg. Sale$: $207,321 Avg. Sale$/SqFt: $44
- Real Estate Agent · Medway , MA · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 19 votes9y
I live in Medway and work as an agent and investor in both MA and RI. The family business is RI based and we primarily flip in RI. MA agents will often refer to RI as the "Wild West" of real estate. Some towns do offers, some go straight to P&S that's just the beginning. As an out of state entity you will get whacked with ano additional tax on the sale so if your looking to flip be sure to add that to your repair numbers. For buy and hold you need a registered RI agent not a big deal unless your managing the property yourself. The market is about as hot as the MA market in most areas. Even Woonsocket is busy.... On a very basic view of things similar properties in similar areas of MA and RI have different Sq ft pricing. RI seems like a deal for most MA investors until they actually go and do a deal. Each town holds its own property records @Anthony Thompson has a great site that links them all for you. So for motivated seller lead follow-ups you won't have County documentseat you will need to go to each town for due diligence info. Most towns don't have electronic records that are easily accessible. But some like Providence do. Interview local contractors.... most of the towns don't have online info about local building codes so you have to go to the town hall and get the local information. Woonsocket comes to mind as an extremely persnickety code enforcement community. Water mains must meet a guideline and they pull Co's for sneezing to ensure that the buildings are being flipped well. I'm happy to grab a coffee and chat specifics or answer any specific questions you might have here.
- 9yAnthony ThompsonPro MemberBuy and Hold Investor · Cranston, RI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Thanks @Brian White - the site is ripropinfo.com - and beside's Brian's excellent insights you'll also need to register with the RI Secretary of State, @Steve Porcello, as an out of state landlord.
If you're serious about investing in RI I'd recommend joining or staying apprised of (and occasionally attending for relevant topics) RIREIG which usually meets the 3rd Thursday of each month (rireig.com).
RI often takes inspiration from MA with various laws, but they are not exactly the same and it's important to know the differences, such as various landlord-tenant considerations, lead paint, fire coding, etc. There's a lot of great info here on BP and elsewhere online but you can stay informed of the latest developments, as well as ask other RI landlords, at a REIA like RIREIG.
- Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 41 votes9y
@Brian White would be great to catch up. I am also investing in both Boston and Providence
- 9yDerreck WellsPro MemberSpecialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 544 posts · 269 votes
@Steve Porcello Most of the homes in MA have lead paint. Save my contact info and when you find property you're interested in, PM me the address and I'll check the lead paint status for you in the state database. I can let you know if it's ever been inspected and what to look out for.
MA real estate laws say that you can't rent to a family with kids under 7 unless you have a lead certificate on file with the state and the anti-discrimination laws say you can't not rent to a family because they have a kid under 7 (even if it's because you know there's lead paint), so they basically made it so that any rental with more then 1 bedroom has to be deleaded. However, they also have loan programs and grants for deleading. There's actually a loan program with 0% interest that you don't have to pay until you sell the property, so basically, it won't cost you anything to delead, it comes out of the profit when you sell, so you just roll it into the sale price.
Good luck on where ever you decide to invest.
Derreck
- Marshfield, MA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 5 votes9y
Thank you all for the responses. Your feedback is greatly appreciated!
@Derreck Wells Thank you for the offer. If I ever need a property searched I will be sure to notify you!
I just created another topic about becoming a lead remover in order to work on your own properties. Hopefully you and other members can chime in there and let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
-Steve
- Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes9ySteve Porcello , if you are still interested in my local market, I would be willing to discuss further with you and provide insight.
- 9ySam AlbertPro MemberRealtor · Providence, RI · Member since 2016 · 98 posts · 66 votesSteve Porcello Hey Steve, I am an Realtor From Rhode Island and an active Investor. If you ever have any questions feel free to reach out to me!
- Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 260 posts · 99 votes9yI have similar issues in terms of finding 5+ units in Massachusetts. I'm taking my next investment to the Portland Maine area. Massive growth in the area and still reasonable pricing on towns surrounding the greater Portland area. I'm in turning an office building into luxury condos in a seaside town. Daily rentals of $500 x 4 units x 90 days =$180k
- Rental Property Investor · East Greenwich, RI · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 0 votes9y
Hi Steve,
I am originally from the south shore and began with duplexes close to home . As you mentioned, lately it has become difficult to find deals south of Boston that cash flow . I've since moved on to 5+ unit buildings in RI with much more favorable rent/price ratios. There are minor differences in fire code requirements and tenant landlord laws but overall the process is the same. People get scared off by the high property tax rates , but from a cash flow perspective I see taxes as an expense like any other that needs to be accounted for but can be covered by the relatively higher rents. Over time the high taxes may suppress appreciation but if you're looking for cash flow, it's easier to find in RI than MA at the moment. I hold my properties in RI LLCs and use a RI management company.
- Marshfield, MA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 5 votes9y
Thank you all for the positive feedback.
Robert, who are you looking to rent to? Who is your audience?
Josh, I am glad to hear that you transitioned to RI and have had some success!
The feedback on here is helpful, and I have still been on the hunt around Mass. I have seen some 2-4 units that have plenty of potential, and others that I had to walk away from. Like I have read on here before, I am not going to buy just anything. It has to be a winner!
For all you eastern MA investors struggling with the low inventory of multi-families, don't give up! You never know when you'll find your next one.
-Steve
- Taunton, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 2 votes9y
It looks like I have found the perfect local thread. Greeting everyone. I am new to BP and am considering going into REI. I just don't know which avenue is best right now. My situation if you don't mind is such; I have a VA home loan mortgage with 224k left on my primary residence which is now valued at around 250-260k. Do I sell then HH a multi In Taunton, Attleboro, Fall River, or Pawtucket? Do I use the rest of my VA home loan eligibility to buy a multi and try to rent out my current house for 1600/mo.? Or use a HELOC to buy a condo that needs maybe 20k worth of work but selling for 50 to 60k under ARV in order to procure more capital for a multi purchase? Please help my novice self with some wisdom. Thank you in advance.
- Real Estate Agent · Attleboro, MA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 6 votes9y
Hi Justin. I am familiar with the Taunton and Attleboro markets. If you can find a multi that cash flows immediately it's a lot let risky than trying the condo route. Condos in this area don't appreciate as quickly as sfh. You would have to analyze each scenario and make sure you have an exit strategy for each to get you to your real estate goals. Good luck and if you want to grab a coffee and chat let me know!
Debbie
- Taunton, MA · Member since 2016 · 12 posts · 5 votes9y
@justindumas
This is also my local area as well and @JustinDumas we have a similar scenario. I purchased a 2 family that I currently live in and I know that I did not purchase it as an "investment deal" so I had asked similar questions on BP, seeking wisdom as well. Since I didn't get even one response it motivated me to get the answers on my own. I called the bank where my mortgage is and found out that even though the values are around 250k-260K they only offer LTV of 65% for a conventional and 85% for fha/va loans. So if you calculate your numbers they come to the same scenario as mine. 260K x .85=221k so that wouldn't even cover your mortgage balance of 224K. Therefore this option offers no access to capital. So this discovery has led me to think, the only way to access that equity is to sell and take the proceeds and invest it in a true "investment deal" where I can truly HH. This is a similar outcome you will see when trying to get a HELOC as well. Hey we reside in the same town, would love to grab coffee and discuss real estate.
- Taunton, MA · Member since 2016 · 12 posts · 5 votes9y
Hello Debbie,
Would love to grab coffee and chat with an investor friendly real estate agent that knows my area. In box me.
- 9yJimmy MurrayBusiness MemberInvestor · Warwick, RI · Member since 2013 · 220 posts · 119 votesGlad to see Brian White and Anthony Thompson putting in a good word for Rhode Island. You guys beat me to it. I will also second what Gualter Amarelo had to say about Fall River. The tenant demand out there is through the roof. The last unit we listed was about $100 above market rates and we had 120 showings in the first week and 400+ unique leads. Needless to say we essentially had our pick of the litter for tenant placement.
Lyon Property Group4.5632 Reviews - Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2014 · 399 posts · 300 votes9y
Thanks for the tag @Jimmy Murray!
@Justin Dumas and @Julie Bradley, I want to say that your situation is not unique and I find many people in your same situation (this is actually how I started my investment career as well). Let me tell the short version of the tail....
I bought a single family in Taunton in 2008 with the mindset of fixing it and upgrading 5 years later... After deciding that I wanted to be financially independent, my plan changed... After months of digging and interviewing lenders I discovered that the only way to invest in Fall River multies was if I didn't own my single familiy.
I sold my single family at the end of 2012, moved in with family while waiting for my first 3 family in Fall River to close in 2013. I renovated it, moved in and promptly rented the building out. After that success I still had money left over from the first sale and bought a 2 family in 2014 with 25% down (basically did a move-flip and bought two houses with the proceeds).
This was the beginning of my career... I got my real estate license in 2015, bought another 3 family with my mother as a co-borrower, 2016 I bought a 4 family with my brother as the co-borower, picked up a single family subject to the existing financing, and so far this year I have picked up a 3 family and a 4 family using hard money, and have another 2 family UAG with hard-money as well.
The story continues, as this year I am selling my first 2 investment properties and rolling them into (2) 6 family buildings to improve cashflow and utilize some of the equity build up.
I guess I got carried away, but moral of the story is that it became much easier to buy a multi, once I got rid of the single..
Cheers to your success!
- Taunton, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 2 votes9y
Thank you all for the replies with your useful info. I never really expected anyone to give me legitimately useful advice due to being new to this site.
I have tailored my plan to what I think is probably the best scenario for me. I think I can sell my house for a 40k+ profit. I will use my VA loan and buy a 3 family to House Hack. I don't quite understand the exact strategies to move on from there but I have this wealth of knowledge here at BP to learn from. My goal is to eventually have 30 units spread across multis, and SFHs in 10-15 yr time frame.
- Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 45 votes9y
Curious if anyone has thoughts on RI towns for buy-and-hold investing, and targeting A, B, C, D type properties? When we first started investing in the area, we were amazed at the rent rolls (vs acquisition price) compared to Boston, but we haven't done a good job managing as maintenance costs, utilities, vacancy and evictions have eaten into the margin. Thankfully there has been a large margin of safety when the properties were acquired but definitely not as good as we modeled out.
We've mostly targeted Providence and Pawtucket Class C-D properties, and wonder how they stack up to people's experiences in other towns and better properties.
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