OIL OIL OIL here in the U.S

OIL OIL OIL here in the U.S

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I'll never understand our fake concerns with oil and stupidity not to drill here. There is an article at the end of this post from Geological Assn that seems to be legit. Why are we so stupid?


WHY ARE WE FORCED TO DRILL ONE MILE BELOW THE OCEAN WHEN SAFER LAND BASED OIL IS AVAILABLE? SOMEONE NEEDS TO START ASKING SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS OF OUR SUPPOSED GOVERNMENTAL REPRESENTATIVES. MIGHT THERE BE AN AGENDA INVOLVED?


OIL - you better sit down.

Here's an interesting read, important and verifiable information :

About 6 months ago, the writer was watching a news program on oil and one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.

The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota , western South Dakota, and extreme eastern Montana ...... check THIS out:

http://bakkenshale.net/bakkenshalemap.html

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion
barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5..3 trillion.

"When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.." says Terry John son, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.

"This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada .. For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up
the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from 2006!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World

Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this
motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia

- 18-times as much oil as Iraq

- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait

- 22-times as much oil as Iran

- 500-times as much oil as Yemen

- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again!
It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?

Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:

Pass this along. If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices - by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.

--------

Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to every one in your address book.

By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!

GOOGLE it, or follow this link. It will blow your mind.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

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Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

Guys, I studied this stuff just about 18 months back as part of evaluating an oil investment. The U.S. does have more oil reserves than originally thought. The proven reserves keep increasing as we find more ways of extracting it, but it is still not quite the same as Saudi Arabia's. (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

One of the problems with North American reserves is that they are not cheap to extract. Whether it is Tar Sands, Oil Shale or deep sea drilling, they are all quite a bit more expensive than oil from the Middle-East. In addition, none of them are environmentally clean so deep sea drilling may not really be worse than onshore extraction.

Natural gas, on the other hand, is plentiful in North America and other non-Opec countries and has been increasing its share of energy consumed. I think this is going to be a major long-term trend and, hopefully, will reduce Opec's power over the next few decades.

BTW, I support laws that allow drilling instead of restricting it unnecessarily. It is entirely reasonable to expect oil extractors to pay for technology to keep their work clean but I do not think it is appropriate to prevent extraction altogether.

I also do not think it is a good investment to keep oil under the ground in the hope that we can extract it later when its value is higher. Alternatives to oil are rapidly improving and their cost per unit of energy is declining quite rapidly. We are probably in the last oil century now and it makes sense to get it out as soon as we can.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y

    Okay, normally I would start this discussion by asking Rich if he has verified his facts. But, whenever I do that, the response is something along the lines of, "I'm not very technical...maybe someone else can do it for me..."

    So, Rich, instead of asking if you've checked your facts, I just went and checked them for you...

    Here's what I found:

    First, your post starts off by saying,

    "The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels."

    But, then you link to a USGS article at the bottom that starts off with:

    "North Dakota and Montana have an estimated 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in an area known as the Bakken Formation."

    So, you say 503 billion barrels, but the link you provide says 3-4 billion barrels. Why the discrepancy?

    Given that the first number is unsubstantiated, and the second number is from a governmental article that you linked to, I think it's safe to assume the second one (the substantiated one) is more accurate.

    So, we're looking at about 3-4 billion barrels of newly found oil.

    To put that number into perspective, the U.S. imports about 10 million barrels per day, so the 3-4 billion newly found barrels turns out to be about a year's worth of oil for the U.S.

    It's definitely a non-trivial amount, but quite a bit less (about .05%) then what your post claims. And it's small enough that it's hardly interesting enough to start ranting and raving about.

    Here's more detail from Snopes:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/bakken.asp

    Rich - If nothing else, you've once again reminded us that we shouldn't believe everything we read, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    Thanks for that reminder...

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    My opening paragraph very ably communicated my concern, which Scott calls rant and rave. Not quite.
    I repeat. I'll never understand how we don't drill here, but rather help fund Brazil to drill off there shores.
    colo oil shale
    Montana/dakota fields
    Alaska
    Off shore ( within reach of coastline) in ca,tx,fl, etc.
    That was my point. Why are we held hostage by middle east when we could be doing more here.
    There are a lot of reporting agencies quoted in the attached article to my opening post. I also mentioned the article "appeared to be legit". It still seems to be.
    I'll stand on my premise. We're stupid to let the wackos stop us from using our own natural resources to help us be self sufficient. I still feel that way, as do many others. Rich
    p.s. Its' always nice to see JScott reply to one of my posts, tic. You can have the last say.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    I personally think it is in our own strategic best interest to NOT drill here long term. Assuming that we drain the planet dry of oil and can import it at a reasonable cost why not wait for the price to go sky-high and sell it later on?

    Alternatively, let the price of fossil-fuel-based energy go way up and replace it with nuclear pebble bed based power so that we can give the Middle East the middle finger.

    I am pretty sure we import most of our oil from Canada and nearby neighbors anyway...right?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    p.s. Its' always nice to see JScott reply to one of my posts, tic. You can have the last say.


    Cool, thanks...

    Here's my last say:

    It's very disappointing that after I take the time to correct all the inaccuracies of your post (others probably wouldn't have bothered), you still respond in a condescending fashion.

    If you were really interested in factual information, I would expect a response more along the line of:

    "J Scott - Thank you for doing a little bit of research and correcting all of my bad information. It's nice to have someone help me with my due diligence."

    Given that your response was nothing like that, I have to assume that accuracy in facts was not your primary goal. Too bad, because I get the feeling that others here actual appreciate truths over lies.

    Thank you again for graciously offering me the last word!
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    What I don't get is we have the technology now to deal with oil well leaks on the surface of the land. Let's simply drill there and however many hundreds or thousands of years after that's done, we'll have that hundred or thousands of years of technological advancement to deal with accidents a mile under the ocean. Seems simple to me.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Guys, I studied this stuff just about 18 months back as part of evaluating an oil investment. The U.S. does have more oil reserves than originally thought. The proven reserves keep increasing as we find more ways of extracting it, but it is still not quite the same as Saudi Arabia's. (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

    One of the problems with North American reserves is that they are not cheap to extract. Whether it is Tar Sands, Oil Shale or deep sea drilling, they are all quite a bit more expensive than oil from the Middle-East. In addition, none of them are environmentally clean so deep sea drilling may not really be worse than onshore extraction.

    Natural gas, on the other hand, is plentiful in North America and other non-Opec countries and has been increasing its share of energy consumed. I think this is going to be a major long-term trend and, hopefully, will reduce Opec's power over the next few decades.

    BTW, I support laws that allow drilling instead of restricting it unnecessarily. It is entirely reasonable to expect oil extractors to pay for technology to keep their work clean but I do not think it is appropriate to prevent extraction altogether.

    I also do not think it is a good investment to keep oil under the ground in the hope that we can extract it later when its value is higher. Alternatives to oil are rapidly improving and their cost per unit of energy is declining quite rapidly. We are probably in the last oil century now and it makes sense to get it out as soon as we can.

  • Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

    Excellent news, close by and easy to invade......
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by NC Mark:
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

    Excellent news, close by and easy to invade......


    Yeah, they've got a ton of it, but given it's form, it's really difficult to extract:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by NC Mark:
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

    Excellent news, close by and easy to invade......


    Let's not forget to steal the real value while we're there - their health care system.
  • Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by NC Mark:
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    (Canada's proven reserves, in fact, are quite vast and among the top 2-3 in the world.)

    Excellent news, close by and easy to invade......


    Yeah, they've got a ton of it, but given it's form, it's really difficult to extract:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

    What, me worry?

    Here's a teen who built a nuclear reactor in his basement for $3500:

    [url]http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2007-03/popsci-videoteen-builds-basement-nuclear-reactor

    No time to chat, I'm off to Radio Shack.......

  • Real Estate Investor · Southfield, MI · Member since 2010 · 47 posts · 43 votes
    16y

    Man...good points all over the place but I think you all are missing the boat.
    CLEAN RENEWABLE ENERGY IS THE FUTURE.
    Oil isn't going to last, it soon wont be cost effective, it certainly isn't environmentally friendly and it won't be enough to support the global demand for energy. Even if there are these vast untapped oil supplies that could fuel the world for thousands of years, it's still not environmentally feasible to do so.

    I'm no "tree hugger" but the damage humans have wreaked on the planet has to stop or soon we wont have one. At least not one capable of sustaining the ever increasing amount of life that exists on it.

    The world is becoming more industrialized, more populated, more in demand of modern technology. That means there is a whole new market for new technologies. You thought oil was big business??? Wait till you see how big solar & wind energy markets become.

    Why not invest in an infrastructure that generates energy that is cleaner, more efficient, cheaper and less damaging?

    The transition is happening all around the world already. I just hope America & Americans wake up before its too late.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Ryan Wilkinson:
    Why not invest in an infrastructure that generates energy that is cleaner, more efficient, cheaper and less damaging?


    Which technology is that? I know of technologies that are clean OR cheap. I do not know of any clean AND cheap technology.

    I do agree that energy consumption is going to skyrocket. India and China are doubling their energy consumption every few years and they have a long way to go to match developed world consumption.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    Agreed...clean is expensive right now.

    I saw something the other day about proposed projects to turn the highway system into glass highways that would be solar panels:

    Solar Roadways - The Prototype

    Can you say middle finger Middle East?

  • Real Estate Investor · Southfield, MI · Member since 2010 · 47 posts · 43 votes
    16y

    Vikram you're right. New energy sources are not cheaper...yet. My comment was taking for granted that these newer technologies are the future and will become cheaper and cheaper. Assumption: The greater demand for them the greater the economy of scale will be, the more investment in production & efficiency will be made and prices drop.

    And Brian, you can say, "middle finger the Middle East "

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    16y

    If I were an American oil company, why would I want to tap into something that I could always have when I can continue tapping into other reserves and sell on the world market at an extrem profit? Does an oil company really care what the price is when the profit margin is high enough elsewhere? Do you think oil companies are concerned what the price of gas is in the US? We pay a third of what many pay in Europe for example. If thoses reports are true, why should it be tapped? What is the oil company going to get in the long run? Bring prices down or dumping more on the market simply is not in their best interests, IMO.

  • Wholesaler · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 286 posts · 255 votes
    16y

    Vikram hit the nail on the head, it's the cost to extract that's a huge factor. There's more to extraction costs than just technology and equipment things like labor laws, manpower, environmental studies, public relations, etc... amount to hugely different overall picture here than in the middle east.

    There's a gold mining town here in Colorado called Cripple Creek. In one location a train track sits on top of a rock mound that contains a million dollars worth of gold. You could wheelbarrow most of it out by hand, no digging or mining required ........... problem is, it costs two million dollars to extract it from the rock.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Andy Jones:
    ... In one location a train track sits on top of a rock mound that contains a million dollars worth of gold. You could wheelbarrow most of it out by hand, no digging or mining required ........... problem is, it costs two million dollars to extract it from the rock.


    As gold prices climb higher, at some point it could eventually become profitable to extract ...
  • Wholesaler · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 286 posts · 255 votes
    16y

    We still have a way to go for that Steve, but if you want to buy some wheelbarrows I'll provide the labor :)

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    As gold prices climb higher, at some point it could eventually become profitable to extract ...


    I don't think gold is getting more expensive....I think dollars are getting cheaper. :wink:
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