Termites?

Question

Hello,

Been in Florida for a bit over a year now and very interested in investing, obviously.  I'm living in Tampa and was curious about how investors deal with termite issues.  From the north so don't have much expertise in termites.

Do you all strictly buy block homes? Do you simply pay for annual treatments?  Was my understanding that most termite companies only guarantee against subterranean termites and not drywood.  This is a large concern for me and wondering how investors in this area handle it.

Thanks!

Michael Haynes · Answer

@Tim Kaminski, Hello guys. I invested in S. Tampa Duplexes and Houses 30 years ago and I have experience with termites. The reality is that if you Buy a property in the Sub-Tropical Zone, you will have termites. The subterranean ones are treated with plastic pots of chemical that they will put in the ground around the house and spray the surface. Every square inch of Florida soil has the possibility for subs and you just have to inspect to see if they like your structure or not. They eat through the cement cinder blocks and move up the walls to make nests. This is why you don't want to put any wooden structure, like a shed, on the bare ground. Houses are made with a metal shield on the ground level to keep them out. The drywood termites are the ones that leave brown sand like piles where they infest the wood. Once a year you will have swarms of the "winged ants" when they move out of one nest to look for more wood to eat. The Tenants will call you when this happens and usually be pissed that it is your fault and they won't pay the rent until you fix it...etc. This is the problem when they move in with used furniture that is full of termites. Not your fault...sure. But, now your house is infested with their termites. There is a new type of treatment with Orange Oil, but, that is really useless. The reason is because Florida has many different types of bugs and Orange Oil will only treat a specific area in a wall etc. Something more suited to an apartment and not a whole house. You have a whole house to protect and tenting it is the only way to kill all the Brown Recluse and Black Widow spiders, cockroaches, palmetto bugs, rats, mice, snakes, possums etc. That is why they call it Fumigation. It is the way you treat all the problems at once. If you buy a house in Florida that has not been Tented within the last ten years, you need to deduct around $1000 for a SFH of 1000 sq. feet in order to tent it.  If the Seller can show you the receipt for that tenting, then it is up to you to get an inspection, which is free, to guarantee that for now, there are no infestations. Don't clean the house before you inspect. Houses usually don't have subterranean termites. In Tampa, they built houses during and after WWII for the military. They were almost all 2/1 and 3/1 and built of wood. The older houses were built with Florida pine which is hard as a rock and won't take a nail without drilling. If it is one of the older types and the pine is full of sap which helped to slow down the termite damage. But, you can consider all houses in Florida as having bugs. It's cheap enough to just tent them and it may even be required when you Sell. One thing to understand is that all termite companies are not the same. This goes with all the other types of companies like roofers and AC, and plumbers etc. There are the companies that have their own crews who do the work according to their specifications and guarantee the work, with a Bond and Insurance with the contract or bill that you pay, so that there is an actual entity that you can check up on and sue if the work is not done correctly. I just termite tented my 3/2 house For Sale down by the AFBase this weekend. I use Haskell's for many years because they have their own crews and it takes two days. I have used Chets because they are close to where I live, but, they sub-contract out their work and I won't use them anymore. The companies started to try and charge you for a warranty each year on the tenting. It used to be $100 a year. Now, they got greedy and want $200 or more each year to come back and tent if termites show up again. Look at the Numbers. Tenting usually lasts around ten years. $100 a year for 10 years is the same as the $1000 you would pay to tent a simple house of 1000 sq. feet and now they want $200 and more each year? I don't think so...

Andrew Krause · Answer

Also, the best defense in my opinion is frequent inspections. Subterainians leave the telltale mud tunnels. Dry rot can be found by poking around. Catch it early and it's not too bad. Like a cancer.

Michael Haynes · Answer

@Tyler Ansell and all who replied to this thread. This was an all around view of the reality here in Florida with the bugs. There is a reason why you want to use the fumigation company that does their own tenting, like Haskell, here in Tampa. You will get termite activity later on, even though the majority of the problem will be taken care of for up to ten years. If you use a company of any kind that sub-contracts their labor, you will have problems here in Tampa when the work was not done right or the bugs come back. There will be a fight over the guarantee and who to contact to file the complaint or lawsuit. Builders have to sub-contract the work, but, that is one of the main reasons why that is such a headache industry. "The Subs..." The Termite companies used to give a one year guarantee which you could renew for $100 a year. Now, that has gone to $200 and it can be cheaper to just tent again later when you get an infestation. If you are Flipping houses you won't be holding past the one year limit and the Buyer can pay to extend the guarantee if they want to. One thing to point out is that here in Tampa there are other critter problems to be aware of. How about Alligators near the golf courses and ponds or lakes all over the place? I live on the Hillsborough River across from the Lowry Park Zoo and we had an alligator try to snatch the neighbors dog off of the floating dock next door with the young boy calling for help. Where I am repairing my Rental near the MacDill AFBase I have a big, screened in back porch and there is a Possum digging holes under the deck to live under there. I fill in the holes and he comes back after a couple of days, for years. If I poison the critter, it will start to stink, just when I get the place finished to Sell. I have to get a trap and capture the invader. Down the street about ten blocks away we have $250K, plus,  houses and Town Homes being built like crazy at Old Port Tampa. That corner of West Shore and Interbay Blvd is known as "Rattlesnake Point." Do you know why? Because that is where we have Pygmy Rattlesnakes that always bite youngsters who are playing in the weeds or near the water on Tampa Bay during the summertime. Yes, they are poisonous. And that is where some of the Builders are building MacMansions like crazy! A few months ago my Tenant, who is a landscaper, got bit on the arm as he was raking up the leaves and limbs that fell down after a big wind storm. Took one day for him to end up in the Emergency Room at Tampa General with a huge, infected, boil from the Brown Recluse Spider that bit him. He suffered like the guys who get coral cuts on their knees, in Hawaii, with a the huge, exploding boils, which we call Furuncos in Brazil. Had to be operated on twice and go through a series of antibiotics and lost days of work at a time when he is desperate for a JOB. Want to watch out of Black Widow Spiders and now we have the Boa Constrictors slithering around from all the Exotic Pets that people throw out when they get too big to keep. You guys have any more stories to tell? What about the horrors of Chinese Sheetrock or Black Mold and the Tenant that only calls you to complain about the water leak that they have had for three months, when the cabinet is ruined or the sheetrock is falling apart? Roof problems that never get fixed? Roots in your drain line? Hope your getting a kick out of this stuff. Florida is such a great State. Merry Christmas you all.

Andrew Krause · Answer

I'm also originally from the North and I learned the hard way. The "guarantee" that you mention isn't worth anything in most cases. Usually, you get nothing in writing. Worthless. The only actual service you get for your yearly payment is a cursory spray around the house- once. And you are correct that they tell you that you are only "covered" for subterainian. All houses have wood in them. The roof structure is always made of wood. Not to mention cabinets and millwork. The best you can do is block construction with metal studs. Older homes that are  usual targets for investing are almost always stick-framed. Unfortunately for investors in Florida, this poses greater risk for WBO's as well as  increased wind insurance premiums due to outdated building standards. Up North, you can rehab older homes to "as new" condition.  In Florida, older homes always carry somewhat of a stigma.

Tyler Ansell · Answer

One word of caution on tenting, it is not guaranteed that termites will not come back. They will willingly guarantee that they will come back out and re-service if necessary but they will never guarantee that no more termites will be present for the next year(s) or whatever. Think about it, if you tent your house and kill all the termites then 3 months later the termites that were next door swarm to yours...guess what, you've got termites again.

Actual Experience: Dealt with this previous Spring where new swarms kept coming from neighboring apartment complex to mine.

Aaron T. · Answer

in florida a property either has active termites or had active termites. have an inspection done, and have it tented prior to purchase. its not as scary as people think.

Waverly Rennie · Answer

hi there- I have several older homes in the Tampa area and have learned a bit thus far. One house for which we paid an annual fee of $250 to do I am not sure what ended up needing to be tented for termites, which they did for no additional charge. I waited too long to get it done and there was quite a bit of damage on some of the exterior woodwork (it's a stucco house) so i paid a contractor to fix it as part of painting the exterior. Just bought a place- again, stucco- with definite infestation so had it tented for $1200 (a cottage and a separate laundry house) and then will supposedly be termite free for a while, while paying $250 a year to keep an eye on it and maybe do occasional sprays around the exterior? With the one I just got tented, another company offered to spray around the exterior and put some barrier stuff for $850 then do occasional sprays around the exterior. As you can tell I don't really know that much about what they are doing but most people I know in my neighborhood go through tenting occasionally. It just seems to be the cost of doing business.

Sorry I can't be more helpful with the specifics. Best of luck.

Sean Drees · Answer

Make sure the fumigation company offers a transferable warranty, definitely puts sellers at ease.

Joshua Sclafani · Answer

I have to agree with @Michael Haynes on this one. Best bet is to tent an old house and it will be good for many years, it also kills almost anything living in the house. The warranties are not worth much and the liquid treatment is only good if you have definitive proof you only have subterranean termites and if they are in the house you should also tent.  In historic neighborhoods such as Seminole Heights, older homes hold their value much better than concrete block and are easier to sell, and yes, they have more maintenance...

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