New Member Introductions
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
![](http://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/assets/forums/sponsors/hospitable-deef083b895516ce26951b0ca48cf8f170861d742d4a4cb6cf5d19396b5eaac6.png)
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
![](http://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/assets/forums/sponsors/equity_trust-2bcce80d03411a9e99a3cbcf4201c034562e18a3fc6eecd3fd22ecd5350c3aa5.avif)
![](http://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/assets/forums/sponsors/equity_1031_exchange-96bbcda3f8ad2d724c0ac759709c7e295979badd52e428240d6eaad5c8eff385.avif)
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
Updated over 5 years ago on . Most recent reply
![Vivan Bhalla's profile image](https://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/no_overlay/uploads/social_user/user_avatar/1254683/1621510710-avatar-vivanb.jpg?twic=v1/output=image/cover=128x128&v=2)
New to RE-Bay Area investing question - Cashflow vs appreciation?
Hi Everyone,
I have been reading the book on Rental Property investing by Brandon Turner and it is helping me a lot. Brandon always mentions that appreciation is like gambling and a speculation. We should not buy any properties based on speculation. He says the first thing we should look for is positive cashflowing properties. But people from the bay area know this very well that here it is basically the appreciation which matters as most of the properties are negative cashflowing for a long time.
I currently have 50k worth for downpayment (700k loan) and was looking to buy a home with FHA loan and house hack. that way I will save up living expenses and also taxes. In my range, there were a few houses in San Bruno but only 2 bd and the numbers did not make any sense. Also, the only places that makes sense were places in East Bay (Hayward, Oakland, Richmond etc). Now, the only thing I am confused about is which location should I choose and also should I ride this appreciation roller coaster? How do you people find out if a property is going to appreciate or not?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Most Popular Reply
![Chris Mason's profile image](https://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/no_overlay/uploads/social_user/user_avatar/376502/1621447632-avatar-chrism93.jpg?twic=v1/output=image/crop=1015x1015@0x19/cover=128x128&v=2)
Originally posted by @Vivan Bhalla:
Hi Everyone,
I have been reading the book on Rental Property investing by Brandon Turner and it is helping me a lot. Brandon always mentions that appreciation is like gambling and a speculation. We should not buy any properties based on speculation. He says the first thing we should look for is positive cashflowing properties. But people from the bay area know this very well that here it is basically the appreciation which matters as most of the properties are negative cashflowing for a long time.
I currently have 50k worth for downpayment (700k loan) and was looking to buy a home with FHA loan and house hack. that way I will save up living expenses and also taxes. In my range, there were a few houses in San Bruno but only 2 bd and the numbers did not make any sense. Also, the only places that makes sense were places in East Bay (Hayward, Oakland, Richmond etc). Now, the only thing I am confused about is which location should I choose and also should I ride this appreciation roller coaster? How do you people find out if a property is going to appreciate or not?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
A lot of the senior head honchos at BP have experiences that bias them towards the midwest. In Ohio or Colorado or Nebraska, I agree that it might be a total coin toss if something will appreciate or not. A family member of mine just sold a home in small town Indiana after owning it for 15 years, and it didn't appreciate a single inflation adjusted dime during that entire time they owned it.
Let's compare/contrast with our area. I dare you to find someone who has owned well located Bay Area real estate for 15 years, at any point since 1945, that didn't see that property DOUBLE in value over that 10 or 15 years.
And if you want to "whatabout" the Great Recession, great grab what some considered a "rough" neighborhood in Oakland in 2007, and let's even shorten it to 10 years. Fruitvale Oakland CA sales prices 2007 v 2017 for well maintained real estate. Buying right on the eve of a once-a-century catastrophic event, there's your WORST case scenario going back six full decades. And you STILL came out ahead, it probably did indeed double in value.
At some point we must concede that it's not "luck," the dice in the SF Bay Area are quite loaded, and they are loaded in favor of property owners. Income in the Bay Area is largely a tech story. Wealth in the Bay Area is largely a real estate story. It would IMO be silly to evaluate things in our area like our area is Ohio.
But, again, if you're looking in rural areas or the midwest, then yes "cash flow is king." It MUST be king, since in those markets you MUST assume zero appreciation.
And not to put too find a point on it, but Saj right above is a Subject Matter Expert on achieving "impossible" cashflow in the Bay Area, in the current market, right now as we speak he has one in escrow. See podcast here where he goes over exactly that:
https://anchor.fm/sean-pan/episodes/33---Why-Investing-in-Your-Backyard-is-the-Best-Strategy-with-Saj-Shah-e3d249?fbclid=IwAR0eZ-wL-Plb00UjP_NIYQ4eSUn-gC26J60yrcKtPSqqOF1qgBHPnX_sjgg