New Investor in St. Louis

New Investor in St. Louis

Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 24 votes

Hello All!

My name is Lane and I am embarking on my real estate career journey. I have been learning about the business and meeting people over the past year, but have recently been working with an agent toward a home in Maryland Heights. I have learned a lot so far from the BP community and I want to thank everyone for their gracious insight and knowledge imparted. I'm actually embarrassed it's taken me so long to create an account and post.

I do have a question for those in St. Louis. I am work full time as an engineer and I have about $65k in cash ready to invest in real estate, not including a 6 month safety net. Regarding this, I am split on how to invest the best moving forward. My idea is to break ground into this business with a fairly safe flip, then look for a turnkey (or low budget renovation) rental this year. My dilemma is, once I do this my debt to income ratio keeps me from getting another loan until I can prove a year's worth of rent income to my lender. I'm not keen on putting things on hold for that long. Are there other options? I know hard money lenders are an option, but I'm not sure if that is the best option for me.

Also, it seems the St. Louis market is not great for renting compared to the national average of cash-on-cash returns. From my experience running numbers and seeing other people's experiences, it seems like $250/month after all expenses is a huge win. So I am wondering if it's even worth buying a rental in this market. However I do enjoy the aspect of monthly cash-flow versus the risk involved with possible big checks from flips every couple months.

I very much appreciate the insight anyone can provide!

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Rental Property Investor · Lindon, UT · Member since 2015 · 862 posts · 438 votes
10y

@Lane Forhetz

I am purchasing properties in three states currently and St. Louis is one city I own six properties and offers in on six more right now.  I think the cash flow is great there in the C+/B- markets.  If you can qualify for conventional financing on a couple now, that would be a great way to use some of your cash.  

Let's connect and we'll talk over the phone about how to buy in your market.  I even have a friend/partner that could find some turn-key rentals for you like he is finding for me.  @Chris Erwin

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  • Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    Hey Lane, always great to talk to a fellow engineer who can understand myself and my engineering learning disability. =]

    Good job with savings. The answer to your question is easy... what do you want? 

    Do you want a job? then flip houses, sell it, repeat, etc. This is a fabulous way to make money, but not build long term wealth. 

    Do you want to build long term wealth? Then you want buy-and-holds, or to pick cash flow.

    If you want money, learn to network, find private money and avoid hard money. 

    If you want to do turnkey's please be advised that there are many downfalls to turnkeys: https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2016/04/1...

    I would suggest networking and finding a PARTNER, as a step up from turnkey properties and property managers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Lindon, UT · Member since 2015 · 862 posts · 438 votes
    10y

    @Lane Forhetz

    I am purchasing properties in three states currently and St. Louis is one city I own six properties and offers in on six more right now.  I think the cash flow is great there in the C+/B- markets.  If you can qualify for conventional financing on a couple now, that would be a great way to use some of your cash.  

    Let's connect and we'll talk over the phone about how to buy in your market.  I even have a friend/partner that could find some turn-key rentals for you like he is finding for me.  @Chris Erwin

  • Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the insight @Michael Sedillo! You're right, I do need to make a decision regarding my niche. I am leaning toward flips right now, but I need to do more research and think about it further.

    I really appreciate the link about turnkeys!

  • Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 24 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Darren Eady:

    @Lane Forhetz

    I am purchasing properties in three states currently and St. Louis is one city I own six properties and offers in on six more right now.  I think the cash flow is great there in the C+/B- markets.  If you can qualify for conventional financing on a couple now, that would be a great way to use some of your cash.  

    Let's connect and we'll talk over the phone about how to buy in your market.  I even have a friend/partner that could find some turn-key rentals for you like he is finding for me.  @Chris Erwin


    @Chris Erwin

     Thanks Darren, I will do that!

  • Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    Glad to hear! 

    Lets stay in touch, so after you make your 1st million flipping properties, we can partner up and get you retired with some cash flow properties in Phoenix.

  • Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    I am an investor myself and work with investors. Many that are in the St Louis market. My main business is providing loans to investors. I think you are being mislead by you current lender about the season of being a landlord for a year. We give you rental income back on the subject property day 1. www.missouriinvesorloans.com

  • Investor · Ballwin, MO · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    Welcome Lane, 

    You have found a great place to converse, ask questions, and learn. Use all the resources here at BP to help you figure out how to be successful. I am a local investor (formerly from Ballwin so right out in your neck of the woods but now living in Saint Clair). I invest in the Dutchtown area, I would be happy to talk with you about my experiences investing in St Louis. My cash on cash returns are more in the 25% to 45% return area. The return you are talking about above is more like 4.6%. I paid 80K cash for a duplex that rents for 1500/mo. After figuring all my opex costs and debt service, I still bring home more than $950/mo which overall gives me my lowest cash on cash return at 16%. I would be happy to show you where I'm investing and how I'm generating those cash flows. My experience is that St Louis is well above the national average in terms of ROI for buy and hold properties (at least for the 13 units I own now and the 3 I have offers out on...)

    - mac

  • Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 24 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Graham Parham:

    I am an investor myself and work with investors. Many that are in the St Louis market. My main business is providing loans to investors. I think you are being mislead by you current lender about the season of being a landlord for a year. We give you rental income back on the subject property day 1. www.missouriinvesorloans.com

    Graham, thank you for that important bit of information. I will definitely look into this further and check out your website. This would significantly change the dynamic for my rental strategy!

  • Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 24 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mackal Smith:

    Welcome Lane, 

    You have found a great place to converse, ask questions, and learn. Use all the resources here at BP to help you figure out how to be successful. I am a local investor (formerly from Ballwin so right out in your neck of the woods but now living in Saint Clair). I invest in the Dutchtown area, I would be happy to talk with you about my experiences investing in St Louis. My cash on cash returns are more in the 25% to 45% return area. The return you are talking about above is more like 4.6%. I paid 80K cash for a duplex that rents for 1500/mo. After figuring all my opex costs and debt service, I still bring home more than $950/mo which overall gives me my lowest cash on cash return at 16%. I would be happy to show you where I'm investing and how I'm generating those cash flows. My experience is that St Louis is well above the national average in terms of ROI for buy and hold properties (at least for the 13 units I own now and the 3 I have offers out on...)

    - mac

     Wow, that is very impressive Mac! Thank you so much for offering to talk with me, I am definitely interested. I am very happy to hear that St. Louis is above average for ROIs; I guess I have just been looking incorrectly.

  • Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    No problem. Call me anytime

  • Peter MacKercherBusiness Member
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 567 votes
    10y

    @Lane Forhetz I'm another big proponent of St. Louis, as it's where I've invested since 2003. There are lots of opportunities in this market for buy and hold. There are zips that typically bring in 1-10% cap, some that bring 10-15%, some that bring 15-20%, and then there are the sweetheart deals that come around and blow that all out of the water, and there are many more that can go negative no matter the zip code. How you buy and how you manage will be the biggest factors that affect what returns you actualize. 

    Happy to discuss any of this with you if you're still shopping for more advice, so don't hesitate to reach out.

    Cheers!

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Can you show us a comp that sold at a 1% cap rate and one that sold at a 20% cap rate?

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