New member from Central Pennsylvania

New member from Central Pennsylvania

Bellefonte, PA · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote

Hello BP!

It looks like the 'cool thing' to do here is to introduce ourselves to the community, so I'll take a second and do that. 

I'm a central Pennsylvanian, near State College (home of Penn State). I am looking to get into the real estate space through rentals. I'm heavily invested in equity markets and have leftover cash flow from my 9-5 today as an engineer, and I'm thinking of diverting some of my monthly net into real estate rather than stocks. I've done the math several times and am convinced that real estate is often a better investment than broad stock portfolios. However, I'm a big proponent of having deliberate processes and taking time to learn before jumping in, so at the moment I'm assembling a group of advisers, reading books, and diverting money into a down payment fund (rather than just moving money, to ensure I give myself time to learn).

My goal is to have several thousand in cashflow in 20-25 years (I'm 30). I do not need the cashflow today, and would likely reinvest what I would receive. I enjoy my job but would also like to have some feeling of controlling my own destiny and have the ability to make decisions about my future as I see fit.

As I see it, there are two primary classes of rentals in my area: college students (which can be split into undergrad vs. grad students) and lower-income (in surrounding neighborhoods). There are some short-time support staffers who may have rentals, but in general real estate is cheap so even short-timers may buy homes.

I tend to believe the 1% rule does not hold here, but that's where I am in the process: learn what the advantages and disadvantages of the different classes of rentals are here, and learn which type of market I'd like to focus on first. Goal is to find a first rental in 2017, assuming the numbers I plug in still convince me it's appropriate.

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  • State College, PA · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    @Matt V. I have a very similar story to yours. I am also an engineer in State College looking to use buy and hold RE investing to increase my cash flow. For the last few months I have been working with a local RE agent to better understand all of my investing options in this area. I have learned that deals in this area are extremely difficult to find and after running the numbers many properties have lower returns than desired. All the properties I have looked at in State College have a hard time cash flowing 5% ROI which has led me to look out to places such as Philipsburg and Bellefonte. Although the prices are a bit lower I have found that many properties either need a lot of work or are still not cash flowing my desired ROI. Let me know if you have any luck with your endeavors I will keep looking myself for a property worth buying. Feel free to message me if you have any questions. Good luck!

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    10y

    Welcome to BiggerPockets Matt and best of luck investing!

  • Rental Property Investor · State College, PA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Hi Matt, welcome to BP!

    I like your analysis/classification for the State College rental market, but I don't think I agree totally on the "real estate is cheap" when you are talking State College School District market compared to outside the State College School District in neighboring markets.

    I am always "looking" at real estate investment opportunities in the State College School District, but my investing partner and I have generally found that the real estate around State College doesn't support our current strategy.  The "1%" or "2%" rules don't really work in the SCSD market in my opinion.  Maybe State College is more of a buy, rent, rehab, refinance and/or sell banking on the appreciation.  

    We have generally been focused on other Central PA markets.

    Glad to see your post and nice to see another local BP member!

  • Bellefonte, PA · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    @Dennis Walter, yes, "cheap" is relative. I live in a nearby town because I didn't want to pay the ~30% premium to be in SCASD. I was thinking "cheap" nationally - housing is the primary reason our cost of living index is so low in Centre County.

    @Brian Johnson I was thinking Bellefonte may be an option... my worry with much of Philipsburg, Williamsport, Lewistown, etc., and almost as true in Bellefonte, is (1) houses are old and falling down and (2) there's no economy, so I can't imagine rents are very high.

    That's my biggest worry in central PA - the economy, Penn State aside, is not very strong. Wages are low for even skilled workers (even relative to cost of living), but most of the economy is service-based and low-wage. Fixing up houses may not be supported - wages aren't high enough to support higher rents. So maybe aiming to turn around and sell rather than rent long-term would be a more appropriate direction. 5% ROI will not entice me.

  • Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 142 posts · 18 votes
    10y

    Hey Matt, welcome aboard!  I tend to agree with you about the outskirts being abundant with dilapidated and almost too cheap of rental rates to make a return. Central PA as a whole is stable, in my opinion. While you won't get rapid appreciation, the flip side is that it's fairly insulated from trend markets.

    I invest in more rural areas outside of Harrisburg. There are a lot of pockets in the area that aren't appreciating, maybe even losing value, but they key is to find the steady ones and invest there. It makes for a great location to invest in mobiles. In those same blue collar, rural areas I've found that you can lease option fixer uppers and have an excellent response. Most people don't mind doing work when they know it will be theirs.

    There's money to be made in any market. All the best!

  • Lancaster, PA · Member since 2016 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Welcome @Matt V. - I'm in Lancaster, and in a similar situation as well, granted a few years older, but looking to do what you're aiming for.

    Best of luck in your future endeavors!

  • Jill DeWitPro Member
    Investor · Scottsdale AZ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 423 votes
    10y

    Hello @Matt V. and welcome to BP. BP has alot of resources and information and is a great place to connect with other real estate investors. I wish you best of luck. You are not alone in your real estate ambition.

  • Lancaster, PA · Member since 2016 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Can I ask what everyone on this thread thinks of the Lancaster area specifically? Like @Matt

    @Matt V. mentioned, a lot of this area consists of service jobs as well, and not quite the number of large businesses to support increasing rents. Wegman's will be building out here sometime in the next year or two, so they apparently see it as a good investment, and I still think the area will continue to grow, I'm just not sure how much.

    Thoughts?

  • Bellefonte, PA · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    @David M. I don't have a whole lot of insight into the market there, but in general, anywhere a Wegmans or Trader Joes or the like pops up, I tend to think of it as a positive sign for an area. They're like anti-WalMarts. Then again, I agree in that (as an outsider) I see Lancaster as having the exact same economic problems as much of central PA. Buying homes near a proposed Wegmans site may be a good speculative plan, but I call that -speculation-, not -investment-.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hummelstown, PA · Member since 2015 · 638 posts · 653 votes
    10y

    @David M. My perspective is still that of a bit of an outsider, since I have not actively looked at properties yet in Lancaster (I do own a 4-plex in Elizabethtown), but here are my 2 cents...

    I actually think Lancaster/Lancaster County is a pretty good market, it is one of the nicest areas in Central PA.  You've got some good school districts and good appreciation potential outside of the city.  I *think* taxes are lower (in comparison to Dauphin County), but I'm not sure about that.  In the city, there seems to be some revitalization taking place in certain areas and there's lots of bars/restaurants that would attract young professionals.  (As a young professional myself, I highly prefer a night out in Lancaster vs. a night out in Harrisburg) You also have the college rental potential with F&M and Millersville.  In general, I think you have a much better tenant pool than Harrisburg or York.

    From an investor standpoint, I know there is a ton of competition and activity going on down there.  This is a good thing and a bad thing...good that it means there are a lot of other people who think it is worth investing in, bad because there will be competition for the deals, making them harder to come by.  

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 34 votes
    10y

    Have you considered the Pittsburgh area?  You may find a greater variety of cash flow options in a larger metro area.  The drive is only 2ish hours and may be worth the hassle of distance.  You can easily use a property manager, as well. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 821 posts · 255 votes
    10y

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets Matt. I agree with Johnathan that Pittsburgh is a great market to invest in. Working with investors both local and remote has been a real pleasure. If you ever want to talk about that market further, feel free to reach out to me. My contact information is in my profile. Thanks and best to you in your endeavors.

    Gary

  • Bellefonte, PA · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    I've thought about Pittsburgh. I don't dislike the idea, I think there's a much higher likelihood for cash flow... and I visit every few months anyhow for Pens, Pirates, and Stiller games. I would just be turning those into 'business trips.'

    But I don't think I'm comfortable making my first deal a long-distance one, just because I think learning the ropes locally will be important for me, physically watching the process with a team and community I'm already comfortable with. Longer-term though, if this is right for me, I'll be interested in da 'burgh.

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