Intro and some advice on funding a smoking deal

Intro and some advice on funding a smoking deal

Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes

So I've been reading the BP forums for a while and have thoroughly enjoyed the podcasts too, but this is the first time I've had a chance to sit down and take some time to write in and introduce myself.

My first US property deal was in 2010 which was a rental SFR in Phoenix. Got it as a seller financed deal for $20,000 down and I've been netting about $400pm ever since. Same tenant has lived there this whole time so it's been a good little earner.

A few months later I took a course with Dolf de Roos, this was when I was living back in Australia, and started learning about the world of rehabbing, flipping and wholesaling. It was a really eye-opening week and I met some great people. This was where I met my current partner who I've been working with ever since. There is a lot more to this story but this is the short version. I do not regret taking that course and I would strongly recommend everyone to invest in their financial education, but use your own judgement in determining if something you are told sounds right. This was one of the thousand great points I took out of that week with Dolf.

Since that course, I've teamed up with the best contractor I met in that time and started flipping houses. I came up with the funding, the contractor found and did the rehabs. This started while I was still living in Australia. I noticed that I could replace my income by doing this full time, so my wife and I up and left the so called "lucky country" (so called by most Australians, Engelo will know what I'm talking about) and decided to settle down in Scottsdale AZ and finally make this our full time job.

Haven't looked back since and haven't lost money on a deal yet thanks to the knowledge and experience of my partner. I'm still learning all the time and this site has been a valuable source of information. I really appreciate the time members take to post things up, answer questions and help out where possible.

Speaking of help, it brings me to my conundrum and question for anyone out there that has gotten this far. Where would I turn to besides the private money investors that I'm currently using to help fund an acquisition of a bulk SFR deal (10-15 houses)? I have a contract with a property trust that is liquidating some of its assets and have been able to negotiate a price at about 30% below market value. None of my investors are liquid enough right now to be able to help me out with this purchase and every other source, from hard money to portfolio lenders has been firm to lend a maximum of 80% LTV, but what it is in actual fact is LTC (loan to cost, not value). Every one of these lenders is using cost instead of market or appraised value, which I don't understand why my ability to negotiate a better price is ultimately killing my deal. One the flip side, if I wholesaled this deal to one of you guys at market value, I assume you would get the funding I'm ultimately searching for because you meet their criteria instead of looking at the deal for what it is. I've also reached out to some transactional funders and their products are not quite what I need.

Biggest frustration with this is that with the rehab projects I have going on now, I'm not liquid enough to take this down myself which normally I would have no problem. There have been a few peers that have offered a wholesale fee to pass this contract onto them so I'm not looking for interested buyers but it's such a smoking deal that I would really rather not have to wholesale it off, but I'm almost resigned to go that route. 

If anyone can offer some advice or point me in the right direction, I would be very appreciative.

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Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 254 posts · 56 votes
11y

@Lucas P. What price point are you talking? What's the minimum downpayment you'll be required to have, and the cash you've got on hand to invest?

Here's my thoughts (I'm guessing several won't provide sufficient funds):

  • Use crowd funding sites like lendingclub or prosper to get a personal loan (up to $35k I think) to help w/down payment
  • Take out a HELOC on one or more of your own properties
  • Is the contractor putting any skin in? Do they have homes to tap into?
  • Partner with others 
  • Meet people at REIAs and pitch your deal
  • Hard Money Lenders in the area
  • Call more lenders in the area - maybe one portfolio lender will take this on (go prepared)
  • Cash advance on credit card

Perhaps one or more of these could be used in combination to get the deal done.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 254 posts · 56 votes
    11y

    @Lucas P. What price point are you talking? What's the minimum downpayment you'll be required to have, and the cash you've got on hand to invest?

    Here's my thoughts (I'm guessing several won't provide sufficient funds):

    • Use crowd funding sites like lendingclub or prosper to get a personal loan (up to $35k I think) to help w/down payment
    • Take out a HELOC on one or more of your own properties
    • Is the contractor putting any skin in? Do they have homes to tap into?
    • Partner with others 
    • Meet people at REIAs and pitch your deal
    • Hard Money Lenders in the area
    • Call more lenders in the area - maybe one portfolio lender will take this on (go prepared)
    • Cash advance on credit card

    Perhaps one or more of these could be used in combination to get the deal done.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    My understanding of great 'wholesale' deals is that 70% value is the MAXIMUM allowable, meaning that if it is "only" a 30% discount, then it is NOT smokin' after all! 

    I've also read that it is common for wholesalers NOT to like bundled assets, but prefer to cherry-pick. That would certainly be my preference, unless the average was at least 35%+ discount! [Of course, I am speaking in generalities and know nothing of your market/analysis specifics]...

    My 2c:- wholesale them off to one of your peer-wholesalers - you could conduct a mini-tender to see which Offer will result in the highest Profit to you?  [No legal advice given]. Cheers...

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Lucas P.:

    So I've been reading the BP forums for a while and have thoroughly enjoyed the podcasts too, but this is the first time I've had a chance to sit down and take some time to write in and introduce myself.

    My first US property deal was in 2010 which was a rental SFR in Phoenix. Got it as a seller financed deal for $20,000 down and I've been netting about $400pm ever since. Same tenant has lived there this whole time so it's been a good little earner.

    A few months later I took a course with Dolf de Roos, this was when I was living back in Australia, and started learning about the world of rehabbing, flipping and wholesaling. It was a really eye-opening week and I met some great people. This was where I met my current partner who I've been working with ever since. There is a lot more to this story but this is the short version. I do not regret taking that course and I would strongly recommend everyone to invest in their financial education, but use your own judgement in determining if something you are told sounds right. This was one of the thousand great points I took out of that week with Dolf.

    Since that course, I've teamed up with the best contractor I met in that time and started flipping houses. I came up with the funding, the contractor found and did the rehabs. This started while I was still living in Australia. I noticed that I could replace my income by doing this full time, so my wife and I up and left the so called "lucky country" (so called by most Australians, Engelo will know what I'm talking about) and decided to settle down in Scottsdale AZ and finally make this our full time job.

    Haven't looked back since and haven't lost money on a deal yet thanks to the knowledge and experience of my partner. I'm still learning all the time and this site has been a valuable source of information. I really appreciate the time members take to post things up, answer questions and help out where possible.

    Speaking of help, it brings me to my conundrum and question for anyone out there that has gotten this far. Where would I turn to besides the private money investors that I'm currently using to help fund an acquisition of a bulk SFR deal (10-15 houses)? I have a contract with a property trust that is liquidating some of its assets and have been able to negotiate a price at about 30% below market value. None of my investors are liquid enough right now to be able to help me out with this purchase and every other source, from hard money to portfolio lenders has been firm to lend a maximum of 80% LTV, but what it is in actual fact is LTC (loan to cost, not value). Every one of these lenders is using cost instead of market or appraised value, which I don't understand why my ability to negotiate a better price is ultimately killing my deal. One the flip side, if I wholesaled this deal to one of you guys at market value, I assume you would get the funding I'm ultimately searching for because you meet their criteria instead of looking at the deal for what it is. I've also reached out to some transactional funders and their products are not quite what I need.

    Biggest frustration with this is that with the rehab projects I have going on now, I'm not liquid enough to take this down myself which normally I would have no problem. There have been a few peers that have offered a wholesale fee to pass this contract onto them so I'm not looking for interested buyers but it's such a smoking deal that I would really rather not have to wholesale it off, but I'm almost resigned to go that route. 

    If anyone can offer some advice or point me in the right direction, I would be very appreciative.

    Awesome stuff mate,

    Well done :)

    Keep the dream alive

  • Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Matthews:

    @Lucas P. What price point are you talking? What's the minimum downpayment you'll be required to have, and the cash you've got on hand to invest?

    Here's my thoughts (I'm guessing several won't provide sufficient funds):

    • Use crowd funding sites like lendingclub or prosper to get a personal loan (up to $35k I think) to help w/down payment
    • Take out a HELOC on one or more of your own properties
    • Is the contractor putting any skin in? Do they have homes to tap into?
    • Partner with others 
    • Meet people at REIAs and pitch your deal
    • Hard Money Lenders in the area
    • Call more lenders in the area - maybe one portfolio lender will take this on (go prepared)
    • Cash advance on credit card

    Perhaps one or more of these could be used in combination to get the deal done.

    Thanks John,

    I'm talking low seven figures. I don't want to give too much detail because I don't want it to look like I'm trying to solicit offers on the forum. Which I'm not, just hoping to get some advice on any other creative lending sources.

    I just tried a crowd funding source, they asked for more info so I guess I got past the initial screening stage. Just have to wait on a response now.

    My contactor and I have most of our funds in the rehabs we have doing right now, and refi of those is not possible at this stage.

    I've spoken to portfolio lenders and some of my regular hard money people and so far it's been a no go. Some have come close to what I need, but still want me to have some more skin in the game, which I completely understand. As I mentioned, transactional funding is also not going to cut it.

    Right now, it's partner with others or sell them one by one, which I do have a bit of interest in some of the individual ones. Might have to go out and network some more.

  • Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    My understanding of great 'wholesale' deals is that 70% value is the MAXIMUM allowable, meaning that if it is "only" a 30% discount, then it is NOT smokin' after all! 

    I've also read that it is common for wholesalers NOT to like bundled assets, but prefer to cherry-pick. That would certainly be my preference, unless the average was at least 35%+ discount! [Of course, I am speaking in generalities and know nothing of your market/analysis specifics]...

    My 2c:- wholesale them off to one of your peer-wholesalers - you could conduct a mini-tender to see which Offer will result in the highest Profit to you?  [No legal advice given]. Cheers...

    Thanks for the advice Brent,

    I agree with your 70% value statement, however you don't know some of the particulars on this deal and as a buy and hold it stands on its own merits here in Phoenix. It's been tough trying to find a 12%pa cash-flow property here lately and this a higher return than that.

    Phoenix has become a little tougher to find a deal with a lot of fat on it, not impossible, but tougher than when I started. I've begun looking into other markets and am considering doing some deals outside Phoenix for a little bit. However, it's been my backyard for a while now and I've gotten comfortable here so it's a little hard to take that step. I think it has to do with having a 4 year old and wanting to settle down. I guess that's called nesting.

    Anyway, I do appreciate your reply, as well as some of the PMs I've received. Thanks everyone.

    Cheers,

    Lucas.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Because this deal seem to you to be out of reach due to your current finances, how about a JV - perhaps even with one of those peer-wholesalers, and perhaps even as a buy-to-hold?

    At the end of the day, doesn't lifestyle rely on ongoing, passive income? Especially for those who need to "nest"...

  • Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    Thanks Brent,

    That's where I'm leaning to right now unless I find another funding source that can work with me, which I should have an answer to that in the next few days, thanks to some BP member advice.

  • Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Why not go with a HML? if your money is tied up in flips and soon to be available then you will pay a high rate but not for long.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    this deal has JV written all over it. !!

  • Investor · White Haven PA · Member since 2014 · 362 posts · 221 votes
    11y

    You need to JV it or go with a HML that will use ARV as the V in LTV and not LTC c=cost.

    Most will limit you to 60-65% LTV on the value but it's better than coming up with all the cash yourself.

    Ray

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    I agree with Brent: consider a JV deal. 30% of something is a heck of a lot more than 90% of nothing. Feel free to PM me as I have an interest in the area and am considering expanding out of my comfort zone (SW Florida). Either way, best of luck.

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