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Updated about 2 months ago, 10/07/2024
Newbie out of state investor looking to build network!
Hi all!
My name is Genesis. I'm not quite new to BP, been lurking in these forums for over a year now, but thought it was time to introduce myself.
I have one SF rental in Portland, Oregon, and am looking to purchase our first out-of-state investment. Specifically interested in buy and hold SF or MF properties with a focus on cash flow.
Currently looking at Iowa: Cedar Rapids/Quad Cities and Ohio: Cleveland/Akron/Dayton. Would love to connect with others to start growing my network.
Looking forward to learning from all of you!
Iowa, the Quad Cities region, Cleveland, Akron, and Dayton are all affordable markets with diverse economies and strong rental demand. To invest in these markets, connect with investors, research neighborhoods with stable employment, good schools, and low vacancy rates, and leverage local expertise.
Good luck!
- Wale Lawal
- [email protected]
- (832) 776-9582
- Podcast Guest on Show #469
All great markets! Speaking for Iowa, I would recommend Cedar Rapids over Davenport.
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:
Hey Genesis!
I like the west side of Cleveland, because most of the neighborhoods don't require a POS from the city. Look into neighborhoods like Jefferson, West Park and Boulevard, Brooklyn Center, Old Brooklyn, and Newburgh Heights.
I suggest working with an investor friendly agent so you can get the right guidance!
The city of Cleveland does not require a POS inspection. So all of the neighborhoods in Cleveland will have the same rules and regulations. Newburgh Heights however, is not a neighborhood in the city of Cleveland. Newburgh Heights is it's own city and has it's own rules. One of which is that it does require a POS inspection.
This is so interesting. I had to look up what a POS inspection was. We don't have those here. It looks like several of the areas I've been looking at require them. To make sure I understand, these are done by the sellers correct? And if the city inspector finds issues then who is responsible for the repairs?
Sellers order them before the house is sold. City issues violations. Then the seller can either fix them prior to title transfer or the buyer has to assume the violations and fix them within a certain period of time after they buy the property.
Thank you for clarifying.
Quote from @Alex Bock:
All great markets! Speaking for Iowa, I would recommend Cedar Rapids over Davenport.
An Iowa investor! I was hoping someone would jump into this thread with an Iowa opinion. I'm curious what your perspective is though since I see you're in Davenport. Will you please share your thoughts?
Quote from @Wale Lawal:
Iowa, the Quad Cities region, Cleveland, Akron, and Dayton are all affordable markets with diverse economies and strong rental demand. To invest in these markets, connect with investors, research neighborhoods with stable employment, good schools, and low vacancy rates, and leverage local expertise.
Good luck!
Thank you Wale! I'm in the research phase right now, so I appreciate your insights on what I should be looking at.
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Hi all!
My name is Genesis. I'm not quite new to BP, been lurking in these forums for over a year now, but thought it was time to introduce myself.
I have one SF rental in Portland, Oregon, and am looking to purchase our first out-of-state investment. Specifically interested in buy and hold SF or MF properties with a focus on cash flow.
Currently looking at Iowa: Cedar Rapids/Quad Cities and Ohio: Cleveland/Akron/Dayton. Would love to connect with others to start growing my network.
Looking forward to learning from all of you!
For what it is worth I own in the Portland Metro and Multi fam in other states and I am trying to get that midwest money back into Oregon. What is worth mentioning is that for OOS investing YOU and your money are the real business. But that is just my experience and B neighborhoods. We will keep some out of state MF we own in Utah which is doing fine. We did used to live there and self manage those though.
Quote from @Bill Hampton:
Welcome to Bigger Pockets. Bigger Pockets is a great place for education and networking and is full of great content.
I recommend that you check out the following resources:
1. Start by reading the Ultimate Real Estate Investing Guide: https://www.biggerpockets.com/guides/ultimate-real-estate-investing-guide/introduction
2. Check out other online guides available here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/guides
3. Take a look at BP's blog where new articles are published every day: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog
4. If you want to network or ask specific questions about your local market, go to your local real estate forum and connect with investors from your area: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/86-local-real-estate-networking
5. You can meet local investors by registering to attend real estate events in your area: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/521-events-and-happenings
6. BP has various tools to help you analyze your deals (rentals, flips, wholesale, etc). : https://www.biggerpockets.com/investment-calculators
7. If you can't find what you're looking for, try the Bigger Pockets Fileplace. It contains hundreds of files such as ebooks, checklists and spreadsheets for real estate investors: https://www.biggerpockets.com/files
Good luck.
Thank you, Bill. I've engaged with some of these already but didn't know about others. I appreciate this list!
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Hi all!
My name is Genesis. I'm not quite new to BP, been lurking in these forums for over a year now, but thought it was time to introduce myself.
I have one SF rental in Portland, Oregon, and am looking to purchase our first out-of-state investment. Specifically interested in buy and hold SF or MF properties with a focus on cash flow.
Currently looking at Iowa: Cedar Rapids/Quad Cities and Ohio: Cleveland/Akron/Dayton. Would love to connect with others to start growing my network.
Looking forward to learning from all of you!
For what it is worth I own in the Portland Metro and Multi fam in other states and I am trying to get that midwest money back into Oregon. What is worth mentioning is that for OOS investing YOU and your money are the real business. But that is just my experience and B neighborhoods. We will keep some out of state MF we own in Utah which is doing fine. We did used to live there and self manage those though.
Yeah I can self manage in Utah is a huge difference. Property Management companies are generally way worse at managing your property then you would be. Vacancies are higher, more evictions, higher maintenance costs. For example I bought a 10 unit in an area I thought was a b+ a- area where 100% occupied rents are about 2.5x my mortgage. I have done 5 or so evictions in 5 years and I mean barely made the payments without putting in my own money over the last 5 years. The people making money in these areas generally live there. I could make it profitable for sure if I could self manage and fix things myself. Also my advice would be whatever grade neighborhood you think youbare buying in subtract a letter grade from it lol. The other group making good money have a business designed to get some portion of YOUR money. If I could go back in time and buy 2 or 3 units within an hour of portland instead of 10 with "great cash flow" In the Midwest I definitely would.
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Wale Lawal:
Iowa, the Quad Cities region, Cleveland, Akron, and Dayton are all affordable markets with diverse economies and strong rental demand. To invest in these markets, connect with investors, research neighborhoods with stable employment, good schools, and low vacancy rates, and leverage local expertise.
Good luck!
Thank you Wale! I'm in the research phase right now, so I appreciate your insights on what I should be looking at.
My pleasure!
Keep learning and growing...
- Wale Lawal
- [email protected]
- (832) 776-9582
- Podcast Guest on Show #469
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Alex Bock:
All great markets! Speaking for Iowa, I would recommend Cedar Rapids over Davenport.
An Iowa investor! I was hoping someone would jump into this thread with an Iowa opinion. I'm curious what your perspective is though since I see you're in Davenport. Will you please share your thoughts?
I see you've specified you're looking to stay on the Iowa side of the river, which I think is a wise choice. I am not sure what kind of properties you're looking to invest in, but I see you've mentioned you're going for cash flow. Your options in the Iowa Quad Cities are going to be Davenport, Bettendorf, and our surrounding mostly newer suburbs, which tend to be more expensive and less likely to cash flow. Bettendorf is mostly owner occupied and newer than Davenport, so that rule also applies to most of it as well. With all of this in mind, it is likely you would end up buying properties in Davenport.
Unfortunately, I don't think Davenport is headed in the same direction as Cedar Rapids and other Iowa metros. Without going into too much detail, we had a mid-rise apartment building in our downtown collapse a little over a year ago which very sadly killed 3 of our residents. You can read more about it here if you're interested. Ever since then, in my opinion, the level of incompetence and back room dealings that have been exposed in our city government has been pretty disappointing. There have been several lawsuits filed against our city by the victims, estates, etc. that I believe the city is on the losing end of, and are likely to affect the city's long-term finances. It is also my opinion that our city rental inspection department has been especially unfair with out of state investors lately, and is trying to blame everyone except themselves for our deteriorating old housing stock. Add in that our violent crime rate is almost 2x that of Cedar Rapid's, and our property management options are terrible, that is how I arrived at my answer! I hope things start improving here in Davenport, my goal isn't to trash our city... But it's just the reality of things here right now.
While far from perfect, Cedar Rapids seems to have a better city government and has the advantage of being in-land Iowa. I believe this leaves you with more housing stock to choose from because you aren't in an area surrounded by Illinois. I also think the quality of the housing stock is better in Cedar Rapids because it's a newer area. They had a huge flood 16+ years ago that cleaned out a lot of their problem areas and spurred some much needed reinvestment into the city. In terms of the economies of Cedar Rapids and the Quad Cities, they're pretty similar. Cedar Rapids has the advantage of being a short commute away from Iowa City, which is where the University of Iowa is located. This attracts a lot of students and employees that make the commute from Cedar Rapids.
I hope this was helpful!
Welcome back from your BP Hibernation @Genesis Duncan!
If you haven't considered Chicago, maybe put it on your radar! We have a plethora of distressed small multi-family at price points at every level!
You'll find we also have a strong BP and local real estate community!
My suggestion is to keep putting yourself out there and attend as many local events as possible!
- Jonathan Klemm
- [email protected]
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Hi all!
My name is Genesis. I'm not quite new to BP, been lurking in these forums for over a year now, but thought it was time to introduce myself.
I have one SF rental in Portland, Oregon, and am looking to purchase our first out-of-state investment. Specifically interested in buy and hold SF or MF properties with a focus on cash flow.
Currently looking at Iowa: Cedar Rapids/Quad Cities and Ohio: Cleveland/Akron/Dayton. Would love to connect with others to start growing my network.
Looking forward to learning from all of you!
For what it is worth I own in the Portland Metro and Multi fam in other states and I am trying to get that midwest money back into Oregon. What is worth mentioning is that for OOS investing YOU and your money are the real business. But that is just my experience and B neighborhoods. We will keep some out of state MF we own in Utah which is doing fine. We did used to live there and self manage those though.
Yeah I can self manage in Utah is a huge difference. Property Management companies are generally way worse at managing your property then you would be. Vacancies are higher, more evictions, higher maintenance costs. For example I bought a 10 unit in an area I thought was a b+ a- area where 100% occupied rents are about 2.5x my mortgage. I have done 5 or so evictions in 5 years and I mean barely made the payments without putting in my own money over the last 5 years. The people making money in these areas generally live there. I could make it profitable for sure if I could self manage and fix things myself. Also my advice would be whatever grade neighborhood you think youbare buying in subtract a letter grade from it lol. The other group making good money have a business designed to get some portion of YOUR money. If I could go back in time and buy 2 or 3 units within an hour of portland instead of 10 with "great cash flow" In the Midwest I definitely would.
Thank you for sharing your experience. We've been nervous about purchasing out of state for these reasons.
Quote from @Alex Bock:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Alex Bock:
All great markets! Speaking for Iowa, I would recommend Cedar Rapids over Davenport.
An Iowa investor! I was hoping someone would jump into this thread with an Iowa opinion. I'm curious what your perspective is though since I see you're in Davenport. Will you please share your thoughts?
I see you've specified you're looking to stay on the Iowa side of the river, which I think is a wise choice. I am not sure what kind of properties you're looking to invest in, but I see you've mentioned you're going for cash flow. Your options in the Iowa Quad Cities are going to be Davenport, Bettendorf, and our surrounding mostly newer suburbs, which tend to be more expensive and less likely to cash flow. Bettendorf is mostly owner occupied and newer than Davenport, so that rule also applies to most of it as well. With all of this in mind, it is likely you would end up buying properties in Davenport.
Unfortunately, I don't think Davenport is headed in the same direction as Cedar Rapids and other Iowa metros. Without going into too much detail, we had a mid-rise apartment building in our downtown collapse a little over a year ago which very sadly killed 3 of our residents. You can read more about it here if you're interested. Ever since then, in my opinion, the level of incompetence and back room dealings that have been exposed in our city government has been pretty disappointing. There have been several lawsuits filed against our city by the victims, estates, etc. that I believe the city is on the losing end of, and are likely to affect the city's long-term finances. It is also my opinion that our city rental inspection department has been especially unfair with out of state investors lately, and is trying to blame everyone except themselves for our deteriorating old housing stock. Add in that our violent crime rate is almost 2x that of Cedar Rapid's, and our property management options are terrible, that is how I arrived at my answer! I hope things start improving here in Davenport, my goal isn't to trash our city... But it's just the reality of things here right now.
While far from perfect, Cedar Rapids seems to have a better city government and has the advantage of being in-land Iowa. I believe this leaves you with more housing stock to choose from because you aren't in an area surrounded by Illinois. I also think the quality of the housing stock is better in Cedar Rapids because it's a newer area. They had a huge flood 16+ years ago that cleaned out a lot of their problem areas and spurred some much needed reinvestment into the city. In terms of the economies of Cedar Rapids and the Quad Cities, they're pretty similar. Cedar Rapids has the advantage of being a short commute away from Iowa City, which is where the University of Iowa is located. This attracts a lot of students and employees that make the commute from Cedar Rapids.
I hope this was helpful!
This is extremely helpful. Thank you. My husband is from CR, so we're there every year or two. Since the flood the inner SE has changed for the better IMO. NewBo brought some much-needed life to that area and dare I say, made it a bit cool? Lol
CR is a little sleepier than I'm used to, but I like that it's pretty much stable, folks are nice, and it has diversification in industry. Plus as you say, the proximity to Iowa City, especially since the IC and CR areas are growing towards each other with North Liberty, etc.
I'll be in Davenport for the first time next week, so it will be interesting to see it with your commentary in my mind. It's a shame about that apartment collapse! It sounds like the city ignored a lot of complaints about structural concerns from tenants for years, which is concerning. Especially since there seems to be a lot of older housing stock as you point out.
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Quote from @Scott Bowles:
Quote from @Genesis Duncan:
Hi all!
My name is Genesis. I'm not quite new to BP, been lurking in these forums for over a year now, but thought it was time to introduce myself.
I have one SF rental in Portland, Oregon, and am looking to purchase our first out-of-state investment. Specifically interested in buy and hold SF or MF properties with a focus on cash flow.
Currently looking at Iowa: Cedar Rapids/Quad Cities and Ohio: Cleveland/Akron/Dayton. Would love to connect with others to start growing my network.
Looking forward to learning from all of you!
For what it is worth I own in the Portland Metro and Multi fam in other states and I am trying to get that midwest money back into Oregon. What is worth mentioning is that for OOS investing YOU and your money are the real business. But that is just my experience and B neighborhoods. We will keep some out of state MF we own in Utah which is doing fine. We did used to live there and self manage those though.
Yeah I can self manage in Utah is a huge difference. Property Management companies are generally way worse at managing your property then you would be. Vacancies are higher, more evictions, higher maintenance costs. For example I bought a 10 unit in an area I thought was a b+ a- area where 100% occupied rents are about 2.5x my mortgage. I have done 5 or so evictions in 5 years and I mean barely made the payments without putting in my own money over the last 5 years. The people making money in these areas generally live there. I could make it profitable for sure if I could self manage and fix things myself. Also my advice would be whatever grade neighborhood you think youbare buying in subtract a letter grade from it lol. The other group making good money have a business designed to get some portion of YOUR money. If I could go back in time and buy 2 or 3 units within an hour of portland instead of 10 with "great cash flow" In the Midwest I definitely would.
Thank you for sharing your experience. We've been nervous about purchasing out of state for these reasons.
There is a lot of stuff within 1.5 hours of Portland that pencils out decently have you looked locally at all?