New REI, looking at Detroit and Dallas

New REI, looking at Detroit and Dallas

Homeowner · Santa Fe Springs, CA · Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes

Hi!

My husband and I decided we want to take advantage of the equity in our primary home in LA County and start investing. We absolutely cannot afford anything local, but after visiting family in Detroit this summer we became obsessed with the idea of investing and/or moving out of state. We are torn between wanting to move to the suburbs north of Detroit and use our equity for a down on a house there (could afford something bigger and nicer and pay it off in 15 yrs vs our current 30 yrs), plus would be able to invest in more than one rental property with that much cash to play with. We are also considering just using a HELOC to invest if we wanted to stay put, and would want to do Detroit metro area or Dallas/Ft Worth area as we visit family frequently there and also have family members who could help as needed.

Our biggest problem with these strategies is that cost of living in LA is so high that we don't have a lot of monthly cash flow to cover the HELOC payment unless we took a major quality of life hit (like stopping all the kids extra curriculars and buckling our belts severely on spending, which we CAN do but I honestly would rather not if there's another way). Our other thought is that if we did move, it would be nice to rent out our current house as it already has an ADU and we could potentially cover the HELOC with rent from the ADU and the mortgage by renting out the main house, but the idea of the ADU not being up to code and something happening frightens me. It's a bedroom and bathroom legally added onto the back of the garage, but was permitted as a "game/craft room" not a bedroom and there's no kitchen facilities or even a permanent closet (though we could install one). It would be nice to have a house we could move back to if we absolutely hated it out of state lol


Would love to connect with anyone local who could help talk me through strategies! Been reading and listening to BP like crazy! 

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Michael SmytheBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y

@Melanie Nelson just to give you more to think about - you could sell and then rent wherever and buy several rentals with the sale proceeds. 

Would give you time to evaluate your new city to decide if you want to stay and if you decide to stay, where specifically, you'd want to live.

You might want to follow the "Deep Dive" series we're doing on our BiggerPockets blog about Metro Detroit cities, City of Detroit Neighborhoods and comparing Metro Detroit to other hotspots investors usually consider:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/99854-deep-dive-into-metro-detroit-cities-ecorse

Our analysis is a template you can follow for any city, but doubt you'll find this much info for any other market in the US.

So, why would you invest remotely anywhere else?

How can we assist you further?

Logical Property Management4.9445 Reviews
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  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Lots to think about.   Three things I often discuss with investors everywhere.

    Whats the population growth of where you want to invest....gaining or shrinking?

    What's the job growth for the areas?

    What's the political climate....landlord friendly or not, rent control talk, tenant friendly or not?

    My quick thought is if you don't think you're going back to CA, sell that baby and get comfortable in your new city. ROI in CA tends to be super low from what I see/hear, but you can evaluate that. You can run those numbers.

    I am pretty risk adverse, so if you have an unpermitted ADU and it's really not set up for real living, that scares me. Probably plenty of people do it, but when you say things like there is no kitchen....my vision is someone moves in and improvises....they either get a hotplate or they get a portable burner, or they get a big grill outside. All of those not really great solutions for you. Lots of new ADU laws in your area, so you might want to get with an expert and see what is legal and not, and what the options are. LA REIA meets once a month near UCLA and recently had
    Seth Phillips is the founder of “ADU Gold” speak.   I don't know him, but he might be someone to look up or contact to see if he has any more speaking engagements coming up.

    Come visit Dallas....lots going on here, but it is HOT.   Probably 30 days in a row now of over 100F, so make sure the AC works for yourself and your tenants.   If you want snow and cold, move to Detroit.

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    Hey Melanie, we should absolutely connect on all this.

    I lived in Detroit from 2017-2022 and I'm now back in CA (this time on the Central Coast). I built a 12-door rental portfolio between 2019 and 2021 while on the ground. I'm still active there and I also help others get started in Detroit by plugging them into my network.

    We're currently in the process of building an ADU, so I get that too! Shoot me a message if you want to talk Detroit RE or if you think I can help.

  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Melanie Nelson just to give you more to think about - you could sell and then rent wherever and buy several rentals with the sale proceeds. 

    Would give you time to evaluate your new city to decide if you want to stay and if you decide to stay, where specifically, you'd want to live.

    You might want to follow the "Deep Dive" series we're doing on our BiggerPockets blog about Metro Detroit cities, City of Detroit Neighborhoods and comparing Metro Detroit to other hotspots investors usually consider:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/99854-deep-dive-into-metro-detroit-cities-ecorse

    Our analysis is a template you can follow for any city, but doubt you'll find this much info for any other market in the US.

    So, why would you invest remotely anywhere else?

    How can we assist you further?

    Logical Property Management4.9445 Reviews
  • Homeowner · Santa Fe Springs, CA · Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    3y

    Thank you @Michael Smythe, I’ve actually read most of your blog posts already, they’ve been great. It was kind of hard trying to find them all but I finally found a link (maybe you could put a link at the bottom of each article for the next one in the series?? Would be really helpful!) I’ve been doing TONS of research and was going to reach out to talk to you guys at some point actually. 

    My husband is not a fan of moving at all, so the idea of renting in MI is not appealing as it means moving once and then knowing we would be moving again. It does make sense in so many ways but doesn’t mesh with his personality. He values stability. The idea of having to find a new job scares him too! I work remotely so not really an issue for me. We have a lot of family in the Metro Detroit and are pretty familiar with most of the area outside the city proper, but realistically where we decide to land would largely be based on mg husbands job. 

  • Homeowner · Santa Fe Springs, CA · Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    3y

    @Bruce Lynn we will actually be in Dallas next weekend! 😀 We were looking at that area because we visit family fairly often, and one of my uncles is a REI and knows the market fairly well. They're very similar in a lot of aspects, weather aside. I just don't see us living there because of the heat (and politics), so Dallas would always be an out of state investment for us, whereas Detroit we would actually consider moving to and could at least drive to a property to see it in person or check construction progress. Not ruling out Dallas at all though! It's still doable with the right connections


    And yeah… the idea of renting out the ADU illegally scares the crap out of me too, and I don't know that there's really space to legalize it as a studio unless we utilized space in the garage. I suppose we could get creative and rent it out as an office or workshop for someone though, or charge higher rent in our main house by calling it a 4bd 3ba instead of a 3bd 2ba.

  • Homeowner · Santa Fe Springs, CA · Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    3y

    @Travis Biziorek I definitely want to pick your brain some time! Our stories are so similar and at the very least I would like to hear why exactly you didn’t like living in MI…. Was it the weather? I love snow and we go up to the mountains every winter to play in it, but I grew up in So Cal and have never had to shovel a driveway in my life. And the idea of that is rather daunting honestly. Moving makes the most sense, financially, and also because we don’t have any family left in So Cal except my husbands mom and my dad, everyone else fled to cheaper digs. I’m just scared we would hate the weather. 

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Melanie Nelson:

    @Travis Biziorek I definitely want to pick your brain some time! Our stories are so similar and at the very least I would like to hear why exactly you didn’t like living in MI…. Was it the weather? I love snow and we go up to the mountains every winter to play in it, but I grew up in So Cal and have never had to shovel a driveway in my life. And the idea of that is rather daunting honestly. Moving makes the most sense, financially, and also because we don’t have any family left in So Cal except my husbands mom and my dad, everyone else fled to cheaper digs. I’m just scared we would hate the weather. 

    Hey Melanie, yes weather was a factor but not the only one. Too much to get into over a BP post though :-)
  • Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 21 posts · 1 vote
    3y

    If you were my friend, I would tell you just to stay in LA and keep stacking equity.

    Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do.

  • Rental Property Investor · TX · Member since 2019 · 236 posts · 392 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Melanie Nelson:

    @Bruce Lynn we will actually be in Dallas next weekend! 😀 We were looking at that area because we visit family fairly often, and one of my uncles is a REI and knows the market fairly well. They're very similar in a lot of aspects, weather aside. I just don't see us living there because of the heat (and politics), so Dallas would always be an out of state investment for us, whereas Detroit we would actually consider moving to and could at least drive to a property to see it in person or check construction progress. Not ruling out Dallas at all though! It's still doable with the right connections


    And yeah… the idea of renting out the ADU illegally scares the crap out of me too, and I don't know that there's really space to legalize it as a studio unless we utilized space in the garage. I suppose we could get creative and rent it out as an office or workshop for someone though, or charge higher rent in our main house by calling it a 4bd 3ba instead of a 3bd 2ba.

    Before you invest in REI I would highly recommend you research why you can't live out your investment dreams where you currently live but are willing to invest your life savings in Texas. Here is a hint - it's the politics.

  • Homeowner · Santa Fe Springs, CA · Member since 2023 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    3y

    @Kenny Cho can I ask why you would suggest doing nothing? Of course one option is we can stay here, locked into our mortgage for another 28 years at 2.25% interest… but that also doesn't give us a lot of financial freedom. We are in our early 40's and would like to get rid of a mortgage sooner than later, and would also like to be able to either cut down hours at work, or allow my husband to retire early, as realistically it's going to be very hard for him to physically work until he's 70 when our current mortgage is paid off. I don't see retirement with a mortgage being possible as we don't have enough saved to cover mortgage and living expenses (just recently got into an good financial position in the last few years so are fairly late to the game). Our WHY is why we are interested in doing REI. Staying put and just allowing the house to gain equity just doesn't seem like the best use of financial resources. We were originally paying more towards our principal to pay off the mortgage early, but stopped when we realized that also wasn't the best financial move unless we committed to staying in this house for the rest of our lives, and instead started investing in the stock market so our money would grow and so we would have flexibility with what we could do with it. Now we would like to find a way to supplement our income to meet our retirement goals and are on these boards trying to find a way to do that. So I'm really curious why you would suggest doing nothing at all and staying put? 👀

  • Joe HammelBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit, MI · Member since 2018 · 612 posts · 666 votes
    3y

    We love the suburbs of Detroit. My entrire rental portfolio is there and I live here.

    Metro Detroit has what 99% of Real Estate Investors want. Couple hundred bucks a door monthly cash flow, double digit ROI, and yes the prices appreciate and you build equity.

    Anyone who disagrees, is simply missing out. I cash flow $100k a year off 20 doors and have built a ton of equity in a short amount of time. Happy to send a screen shot of the portfolio to anyone who wants to see, it just won’t allow me to attach pics to a reply.

    Purchase: $80k-$130k

    Rent: $1100-$1500 (no rent control in MI)

    1% rule: 1%-1.4% rule deals

    ROI: 10-14%

    Cash flow: $250-$350/door (after all expenses and budgeting for maint, capex, vacancy)

    Appreciation: 3-10%+ (has been double digit for a decade)

    Location: C+, B-

    These numbers are based on the "sweet spot" in Metro Detroit. These are largely in the suburbs and some markets within the city. You can find higher ROI (on paper) here and probably in other cities…but the probability of actually collecting rent significantly decreases. Where these numbers are found, there is a very high rate of rent actually being paid.

    We have over a dozen Fortune 500 companies just in Metro Detroit with huge Healthcare, Auto, and mortgage industry National footprints. Ford, Rocket mortgage, Beaumont hospitals and more. All complimented with Amazon fulfillment centers, google, and more tech manufacturing jobs.

    The bad reputation of “Detroit” comes from OOS investors wanting sub $40,000, D class properties. We don’t buy those. We have found what works and repeat it as much as funds allow. Detroit is known as the highest rent to price ratio in the country…and we’ve found the perfect balance of price/location within the area.

    FIRE Realty Team - Keller Williams5377 Reviews
  • Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 21 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Melanie Nelson:

    @Kenny Cho can I ask why you would suggest doing nothing? Of course one option is we can stay here, locked into our mortgage for another 28 years at 2.25% interest… but that also doesn't give us a lot of financial freedom. We are in our early 40's and would like to get rid of a mortgage sooner than later, and would also like to be able to either cut down hours at work, or allow my husband to retire early, as realistically it's going to be very hard for him to physically work until he's 70 when our current mortgage is paid off. I don't see retirement with a mortgage being possible as we don't have enough saved to cover mortgage and living expenses (just recently got into an good financial position in the last few years so are fairly late to the game). Our WHY is why we are interested in doing REI. Staying put and just allowing the house to gain equity just doesn't seem like the best use of financial resources. We were originally paying more towards our principal to pay off the mortgage early, but stopped when we realized that also wasn't the best financial move unless we committed to staying in this house for the rest of our lives, and instead started investing in the stock market so our money would grow and so we would have flexibility with what we could do with it. Now we would like to find a way to supplement our income to meet our retirement goals and are on these boards trying to find a way to do that. So I'm really curious why you would suggest doing nothing at all and staying put? 👀

    Staying put for now. Maybe a year or so. Keep paying off your mortgage. Do not pay extra into the mortgage. Save the extra money and rent out that guest house to a familiar person if possible.

    Regroup in 1-2 years. You'll have some extra cash and hopefully more equity in your home to cash out.

    It seems like tapping into your equity will run you thin right now and that is not the best place to be as you speculate on real estate.

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