[Bay Area] Should I request permits to even uneven floors?

Question

Hi BiggerPockets community!

This is a fairly specific problem. Hopefully someone here can help us out! We recently purchased an old Victorian house in Bay Area, built in 1901. It is a 2 bedrooms and 1 bath with basement. We believe the back of the house is an addition, as it is not built on top of the basement, and the floor has become uneven over time. We want to even the floor up to the same level as main house and are unsure if we should request a permit for it.

There is no online permit records for this addition. Makes sense, since San Francisco only tracks permits from 1980+, whereas this addition was likely added before 1950s (based on very old pictures). I can't determine if it was permitted work. On one hand, the appraisal and inspection both considers this as part of the official living size of the property. The bathroom and laundry hook are also built there, which I believe should have a plumbing permit. However, it seems to be built with less solid material than the main house and has very obvious tilt (two inches). Are we liable to rebuilt if it is an unpermitted addition or should it be the previous owners? The previous owners held the house for a short amount of time as an investment property. They don't know much about it, didn't do any renovations, so we didn't ask about permits. I do want to do it by the code, but am worried requesting a permit to even the floor will open a can of worms. I am also unsure about legal obligations.

I have heard some conflicting ideas about this, hopefully the BiggerPockets community can provide some insights. Thank you!

Eric James · Answer

You can go to SFDBI.com and, under permit services, find the track permits tab, search for your home address, and look at the permit history (Plumbing, Electrical, Building, Complaints). If you'll need to do any carpentry work to level the floors guaranteed, you'll need to pull a permit.

From my experience, the city of San Francisco is pretty strict, and if you bought a historical house, any exterior renovation might involve speaking with the planning department to keep the house "Historical". Note neighbors love to complain about construction work, and all you need is one complaint and an inspector is knocking on your door.

I've had someone complain I was building out a window, and I had an inspector knock on my door. I had to show him the plans to the building and prove to them I wasn't installing or had installed a window...

David M. · Answer

@Sonia Wu

I don't know your market or your area.  But, it all depends on what is involved with leveling the floor.  Sounds like its some sort of slab on grade or just framed out over what was once yard/dirt?  As mentioned, if you are just ripping up the floor and just using some leveling compound or perhaps redoing the subflooring I don't think a permit is warranted.  But, if the floor is nonlevel because the joints underneath have an issue, than you will need a permit.

Honestly, the you really should just call your town and ask.  First, you need to know what you are going to do to address it.  As much as inspectors get a bad rap, at least around here they are pretty open to questions, both because they are public servants so its their job and because they really aren't "bad people."

As far as your other concerns, maybe you should ask the town for the permit history.  I assume in CA you can still put in an OPRA request.  As for liability, you hold Title so its your problem, if any, now.  I'm guessing in CA its still on the buyer to do their due diligence.

I hope this helps.  Good luck.

Jesse Reynoso · Answer

I am assuming this is a raised foundation, and being so leveling out that section of the house is not that big of a deal. Pulling permits now a days is a pain with covid and all.  The hard part is finding someone that will do it with out ripping you off.  This is something you can do if you dont mind getting dirty and crawling under the house.

Are you planning to live in this or flip it?

Sonia Wu · Answer

Thank you!

Dustin Allen · Answer

@Sonia Wu

You should get a permit if you are going to change the underlayment or anything below that.  Generally replacing only flooring does not require a permit unless you have to replace or repair underlayment.

When you get your permit, be sure to keep those photos showing that this addition has been in existence since long before you ever bought the house.  Doing this work with permits will help you a lot on the back end whenever you decide to sell.  You will have to disclose whatever you have done either way and it goes over much better when you can say it was permitted and inspected as done properly.

Best of luck, I hope it turns out to be an easy fix.

Sonia Wu · Answer

That was really helpful. It is on dirt/yard, but since we live on a hill, the slab are open air. I will check this week to see if it is a subflooring or the joints underneath that have deteriorated.

Makes sense, I will call the city to see what we can do for permit history. Thank you!

Sonia Wu · Answer

Thanks! We plan to BRRRR. Live in the house and do renovation to increase its value. The room is raised foundation as it is above ground but has slab to support it.

Definitely agree, this is why we are doing as much research as possible before renovating.

Brian Garlington · Answer

Great point Jesse

[Bay Area] Should I request permits to even uneven floors?

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