Realistic Renovation timeline?

Question

Currently renovating my kitchen and I am curious as to the timeline I should be expecting my GC to finish. Yes I understand it depends on a lot of things, but I just need the floors redone, add a 30’ counter, add a dishwasher along with the water hook ups, new sink, add a garbage disposal, completely redo the ceiling, and replace the overhead light. I’d estimate my kitchen to be roughly 400sqft, with the majority of the cabinets untouched.

I’m asking because it’s taking my GC 26 days and counting to do it. I am also having him install vapor barrier in my crawl space(entire sqfootage of the house is ~1600sqft), replace my main sewerage line that runs into my tenant’s place, add in a full bath, and add in 2 small closets.

I don’t want to be impatient, but there hasn’t been much progress anywhere as far as I can tell. Of everything I listed, not a single piece of the project is completely finished. Everything is still in progress. It didn’t help that I essentially got deployed for about 22 of those 26 days, so I’ve been receiving progress updates through phone calls and occasional pictures.

Am I overreacting in wanting to fire this guy and just get new GCs?

Scott M. · Answer

hahaha, love the "I just need...." and then a list of basically redoing the whole kitchen other then the cabinets.  If he told you 26 days I would set your mind on 40 (~1.5x) and then if he is done early you will be happy instead of miserable.  Things always come up and contractors are notoriously terrible at estimating time.

Scott M. · Answer

I really didn't read it well the first time, it is 26 days and counting and he told you 3-4 days?  Like I said, contractors as a group are great at a lot of things but estimating time isn't one of them.  That is an insane underestimate.  If this were one of my crews they would have probably told me 10-12 days and I would have assumed 3 weeks.  I thought they told you 26 days that is why I said assume 40.

No, you are not overreacting.  They are well beyond their time estimate you need to get on them a bit.  The other thing about contracting is I can tell you it never appears that they are as far along as they are.  I have gone into homes where the guys say it will be done in 3 days and it is a disaster.  Now, never done in 3 days because contractors can't tell time (I am a licensed builder so i am allowed to say these things!) but they wrap it up in 4-5 days.  Meaning, it always comes to together pretty quick at the end.

it is time for a serious conversation with them and based on that you may want to fire or get them on a tighter schedule with photos provided at the end of each day with progress.  Seems like they took advantage while you were deployed.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

Sounds like he's a flake. No permits, no inspections, no contract (Joist is not a contract, merely a finance mgmt tool). Did you or can you check his contract status on your state's CSLB website? Did you check it in advance to make sure he's licensed/bonded/insured ?

Good news is - if there is no legal contract, you can fire him and find someone else easily. I would. There is some blame for you in this project, but you can't expect a regular homeowner to know everything.

If he tells you he'll be there at 10 am, he should be. But stuff happens, this is not your biggest problem....

#1 - Check him out. #2 - Go to your city and inquire about permits. #3 - Find someone else.

Robert Lei · Answer

@Carl Millsap Thanks for the reply. The first timeline he gave me was 3-4 days for just the kitchen, vapor barrier, and the sewer line.

1. He seems to be doing most of the work in house, with redoing concrete for the sewer line subcontracted.

2. Most of the materials I supplied from Lowes. Getting supplies hasn't been an issue this entire project.

3. No, I never expected him to be finished within 3-4 days, considering how old the house is. And there has been quite a bit of setbacks as soon as we peeled off the original drywall. However, all of them were fixed within 2 days. But the lack of progress on things that ought to be finished is frustrating. For example, part of the contractor was to reseat the toilet, which based on watching previous plumbers do it, I'd generously give it a 4 hour job. I'll admit the full bath was a late add-on, but that was added on day 2 out of 27 now.

4. I haven't paid anything besides the deposit, the materials that we agreed he'd pick up, and the "completion" costs. Since I was out of the country, when he told me something was complete ie the sewer line and the vapor barrier, I'd pay that part of the contract in full. Come to find out, the driveway concrete was still torn up (ok, just waiting for his sub, but I've paid in full already), and there was no vapor barrier laid down in the crawlspace (GC had gotten a "picture verification" from his sub that it is completed, so I'd paid accordingly).

I left a very detailed note, and maintained verbal/text communication with my GC while I was gone, so I am not sure communication was the issue here. I asked him to explain some of the things I was looking for, and he was able to tell me exactly what I wanted. Again, he told me initially 3-4 days, and then "it will be done by the time you get back (I've been gone for 2.5 weeks at this point)," and right now, it's "we will be all wrapped up by Wednesday."

What is the most frustrating part of it all is that he would tell me he is showing up at 9, 1030, 11, or whatever, and be AT LEAST 2 hours late every time. And that's on the days I was around. I don't know if he showed up everyday while I was gone. For example, after I called him out for lying to me about the vapor barrier, he promised his guy would show up at 1030. Currently, 1310 and nothing. And no, he and his team doesn't work until 7, 8, or 9. They take off around 4 or 5.

Carl Millsap · Answer

@Robert Lei, based on the scope of work 26 days isn't a lot of time. What I recommend is you sit down with your GC let him / her know your expectations, and then develop a realistic timeline.

1. The GC just runs the project. Unless they have their own electrician, plumber etc. on their crew, they are at the mercy of the subcontractors schedule. Ask the GC if they have skilled trades in house.

2. Materials. Like everything else, the supply chain is backed up. Things are returning to normal, but in some markets it's hard to get supplies.

3. When it comes to renovations it's never as easy or straightforward as we expect. If you were simply redoing the 400 sqft kitchen then yes, I would say 30 days is more than enough time. Installing a sewer line, adding a full bath etc. takes time.

4. Set your payment schedule to tangible results. i.e. when they get the sewer line installed, vapor barrier laid and the bathroom plumb complete you make an installment. When they complete the full bath and closets you make another payment, final payment (besides materials) will be made when your kitchen is complete.  This way you don't feel as though you're paying and not seeing progress.

Again, communicate, communicate, then communicate some more. Un-communicated expectations can't be met. Remember you hired the GC for a reason, listen to the professional but inspect what you expect.

Marian Smith · Answer

@Robert Lei  I agree, pay friend or someone to be boots on ground.  I have found both pms and realtors can be pretty unknowledgeable about the workings of a house, but that is my first thought if no friends can do it.  I am in Austin and got 2 licensed plumbers to bid to replace galvanized supply lines and tub install within 2 days and work starts 2 days out.  And supposedly crazy here.  I would be pretty upset to have permit guys show up and demand permits....even I am smart enough to keep work being done in low visibility.  Plus new sewer should always be permitted unless it falls into the repair category...expensive and if the slope is wrong all kinds of bad repercussions...unless maybe you have 100% faith in plumber and much less in inspectors, maybe, but even then waiting on the sewer inspection shouldn't hold up anything else so no real drawback.

Lynnette E. · Answer

I would not be as concerned with the timeline as I would be with the lack of honesty.

A new bath likely takes a permit and that can take time.

If a sub sent photos of something done, he should verify it.  That is the job of a GC, why you are paying him.  If you can not personally inspect everything, pay a friend to do it  Do not trust him again.  Maybe he hires lying subs (and that is on him), but maybe he is the one not telling the truth.

Be careful.  I had a licensed GC give me receipts of cabinets he bought and installed.  Photos of them installed.  Just said he was waiting on the countertops.  That step allowed him to get one of the larger draws.  Paid him.  A few weeks I climbed the ladder to the kitchen (no stairs yet)  No cabinets.  I called him on it.  He was surprised I climbed that ladder and saw no cabinets.  He had a problem with his own house, needed the money.  He returned my cabinets.  Hoped to buy them back on discount as returns.  Hoped to sell his house to get the money to buy my cabinets back.  To keep the schedule I ended up with cheaper, not the custom, cabinets.  Had to watch him at every step.  Last I heard the DA was investigating him.  I had a nice long interview with the DA, very much liked my information, documentation.  Had to give written statements too.  He was taking the money from a new house to pay to finish a previous house.  He had a snowball effect happening with the houses.  Money spent for the newest contracts were paying for the year old contracts.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

That's beside the point. You still need to get a permit if it's required.

Mark Eaves · Answer

@Bruce Woodruff

It costs time Bruce, and most city processes are syrup slow.

Mark Eaves · Answer

@Scott M.

Yes analysis of the way the situation was stated gave the complete heads up for anybody that’s a contractor.

Realistic Renovation timeline?

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