What evidence for the rotten bathroom door

Question

Hello,

One of my tenant families is moving out at the end of this month. In the pre-move out inspection, I found the bottom part of the master bathroom door is badly rotten (water damage) and the paint there got bubbly. I believe that the door really needs to be replaced, and the tenant is saying that it is not caused by them and that it was already like that when they moved in. They even said the previous tenant must have flooding, even though they have been the first tenant that I had for that house since I bought the house. I know they are lying. However,I do not have any photos of that part of the door before they moved in as evidence.

1) home inspection report

What I do have is the home inspection report which was written just before they moved in. I bought this house and then immediately rented out. The house was in a very good condition almost like a new home. This tenant family is the first tenant for that property. The home inspection report picks up a lot of minor cosmetic things also, but it never mentions about the bathroom door damage.

2) they didn't report the issue when they moved in

I told them verbally (but not with a written document) if they find any damage or missing part, they should let me know and take photos before they moved in. But they didn't report anything about the door damage at that time and also never mentioned about it before this pre-move out walk through.

In this case, do you think I can deduct the cost to fix this damage from their security deposit? When I rented this home out, I was a beginner in this world and I didn't know this would become a problem.

Account Closed · Answer

I own several apartment buildings, have been in the construction business more than 50 years and never saw a case where any homeowner or tenant accidentally or purposely destroyed any door with water, or by flooding a bathroom one, two, or a few times. It sounds like it is a crappy door. I do have a bathroom door that is destroyed on the bottom in my office 10 feet from where I am sitting, right now. The door appears to be destroyed from water damage, but it is not. It is probably 60 to 80 years old and just fell apart.

I like to be fair with my tenants and I am more inclined to refund them their money than not when there is a little damage to a rental unit. I've been a tenant and I know what it feels like to be accused of damaging something that I did not damage and someone is playing god with my money. I sleep way better at night knowing that even though it cost me $250 to $350 for a door, I did not mistakenly steal a hard-working person's money just because I could reign over that person.

Be fair and do what is right. If you are absolutely positive the tenant purposely destroyed the door then charge $250 to $350. Perhaps, your property has some serious plumbing problem where there is too much moisture in the bathroom, or the toilet is crappy and constantly overflows causing water to leak on the floor, but even if a bathroom gets flooded the door should be high enough off the floor so it does not get wet. So, I an guessing that you are liable for the destruction of the door. Sorry!!!

Scott M. · Answer

Because no photos exists pre move in the fact is you don't have any proof one way or the other.  By the sounds of it the home inspection report doesn't address this issue either way so that isn't exactly evidence.  If you charge it two possible ways it goes.  One, you keep your money and nothing happens.  The other the tenant makes a case out of it.  With no proof either way what are your odds of winning in court?  Do you want this to go to court?  Do you want to be dealing with this for the next X number of months, all the time, effort, energy spent (maybe legal fees).  Or is the cost of repairing or replacing the door small enough that it is better for you to learn the lesson now?  To me, the cost of a door isn't worth that time and hassle.  Cheap lesson in my opinion.

Ju Hyun K. · Answer

Thank you for all answers. I appreciate your advice and I completely agree that I have been learning a lot.

@Nathan G.: thanks again for your specific advice. Your advice has been always very helpful for me.

@Jim K.: I see that my statement "I know they are lying" might have given you the impression that I am trying to maximize the return by taking advantage of them. However, that statement was based on multiple bad experience with them: First, I clearly knew the door didn't have that problem before I rented it out even though I didn't take a photo for that part. Second, they already lied for several other things. For example, they tried to hide and lie about their six unauthorized cats. I found this with undeniable evidence. With these, I decided to be very strict about any damage caused by this family. I thought this might have been caused by the kittens but I don't know. Based on other people's opinions, I would fix it myself.

Nathan Gesner · Answer

First, you don't have any evidence of what the door looked like before they moved in, so this makes it difficult to prove in front of a judge if you ever went to court. However, you gave the tenant an opportunity to document problems and they didn't report anything, so that's an indication the damage is new. I think you would win the argument.

Second, this is not a major fix. It sounds like a low-quality, hollow-core door. They can be replaced for under $150. Stop talking about it. When the tenant moves out, decide if you're going to charge them and then move forward.

Third, take pictures! With phones and digital cameras, there's no reason why you can't document the condition of the home before and after every occupancy. I take a picture of everything from different angles so that everything is visible in a "general overview" picture. I take closer pictures to document a stain, scrape, or other damage. Take a picture of doors front and back, and make sure one of them shows the edge where the latch is located because that's the most likely place to be damaged by a tenant kicking in a door. Kitchen and bathroom cabinets should be closed, then another picture with them open. Appliances closed, then opened. I also take pictures of the appliance information plate that shows the make, model, and other details in case I have to send a technician. Windows from inside and outside with blinds or curtains opened and closed. Toilet seat open and closed.

A typical three-bedroom home will take 150 - 300 pictures to document, depending on condition. When a tenant claims the house was filthy or that a door was damaged before they moved in, I have picture evidence to show otherwise. This takes away all the arguments and I have NEVER had a renter file a claim against me for a deposit charge.

Lawn, fence, driveway from every corner so that every spot is visible

Exterior of home so every side is visible, close-up photos of windows and doors to show screens, glass, no scrapes, etc.

Interior

Eric James · Answer

This is one of the reasons why you have tenants an opportunity to complete a Condition and Inventory form upon move in.

Also note, at least where I invest, you can't deduct your own labor from a security deposit.

Jim K. · Answer

@Ju Hyun Kim

As @Joe Splitrock indicated, this is not a major fix. Moreover, it's a bathroom door, and they are always prone to minor water damage and paint damage. I don't know how much you are planning to deduct from your tenant's deposit, but I likely wouldn't deduct a cent for this. It really sounds like you are trying to maximize the return on this tenant's occupancy by withholding as much of the tenant's security deposit as you possibly can.Making the statement "I know they are lying" given the utter lack of any sort of evidence except an omission from a home inspector's notes...further evidence this industry might not be the right fit for you.

Ju Hyun K. · Answer

@Santiago Marquez: Yes, I agree with all you said and  I will thoroughly do those as you mentioned. I was too naive and I am still learning. It's been three years since I bought my very first rental property. Thanks again for your time and advice.

Jim K. · Answer

150-300 pics for a three-bedroom house.

That's a great ballpark figure, Nathan.

Theresa Harris · Answer

Buy a new door and have it installed.  You can get ones that are vinyl on the outside.  They aren't that expensive. I paid $80 Cdn at Home Depot to replace one.

Aigo Pyles · Answer

You should have photos before your tenant/s move-in as evidence.

What evidence for the rotten bathroom door

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