Tenant doesn't want to pay for exterminator

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Tenant doesn't want to pay for exterminator

Kevin HaPro Member
Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 5 votes

Hello guys,

I'm back with another round of questions from a newbie investor. Maybe you can help me navigate this awkward situation. Currently, I have a tenant that moved in February. Since then she has have a mice problem. It started with her saying that she had been hearing scratches along the walls so we boarded some things up and I gave her suggestions on how to keep the house clean so that mice won't exists. At that point it was dirty but she said that it was just that one day. I also suggested sticky traps as they were the best working (not the most humane, i know) but others just wouldn't do the job.she started catching them, she's apparently up to #10 in the last 2 months. However, when she started renting in February, there was not a mice problem and it didn't start until late April/May when she first started to notice them. She even got a cat saying it was to help with the mice, but I had ask to have her remove it as it was against the no pet clause in the lease. She is on a government program (CityFEPS) helping with her pay in NYC. At this point, I've said that I can no longer can help you and you need to call an exterminator. she said she did and the estimate was going to be about $350. She's stating that it is difficult for her to pay because of Covid and what not and says the exterminator also said she's going to need to do the whole house+basement. The first floor unit also has a tenant so I'm not sure about removing them just so the exterminator can lay traps and interrupt their lifestyle. they also have no issues with mice. I think she's going to use that to say I should pay for some if not all of the exterminator bill since it will require the whole house. Also, In my lease, it stated that the unit they are renting from is pest free from the date of rental and if any pest situation arises, that they will be responsible for it and not me. Also, I had passed inspection for the CityFEPs to be approved for a tenant to live here. I'm in NYC, Brooklyn if it helps. I called HRA but they said that because I own the property that is it still my responsibility and ultimately I would have to pay anyway. Is there anything I can do? Thanks for the help.

Warm Regards,
Kevin

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Ahmed Saad
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2008 · 92 posts · 59 votes
6y

The advice I give is the advice of an experienced owner-operator in Brooklyn. Understand that maintaining the property free of vermin is your responsibility. That said follow these steps and you will be fine. Ignore them at your peril.

1. Hire a licensed pest control company. Don't hire one of the big guys, hire someone that does the work himself and owns the company. I can recommend one or 2 offline if you wish. They are the boots on the ground and tend be be better than a big company that just employs some schmuck who doesn't care.

2. Walk the property with them. Have them show you the possible points of entry. With mice it' ALL about closing points of entry. If the problem is as bad as you say, you have multiple points of entry and breeding. Close all the open areas and fix things that need to be fixed (think holes around radiator pipes, behind the stove, door sweeps). Fix them ASAP. This just needs a handy man.

3. Pest control really only works when the whole property is treated. Make sure you secure access to the whole building. Make sure trash areas are kept clean. Make sure no trash if left in the hallways. Explain to the tenants they are NOT to store garbage under the kitchen sink. 

4. Do monthly service. As winter approaches the problem will get worse, not better.

5. If you ignore the above, the tenant can call HPD which will, I promise you, be much much much worse than paying $100 month for an exterminator. You will be on the hook for the exterminator, whatever repairs HPD will require you to make, AND the tenant can stop paying rent claiming the premises are not livable. And you cannot recoup lost rent. AND you cannot evict them for non payment. And you will not be able to do a single thing. I don't even know anything about FEPS but if it's a govt program it will make everything worse. 

6. Welcome to being a NYC landlord and I promise you the advice above is worth it's weight in gold.

7. Oh, and where there are mice, roaches are not far behind. Make sure you get the property treated for roaches.

8. Also, it might be worth it to let the tenant have the cat. It is a genuinely good deterrent of mice and you don't need to pay of it ;)

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  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Kevin Ha I don't see where you say what type of unit this is. Is it an apartment or attached house like a townhouse?  Could the mice be coming from an adjacent property?

    You might want to check into your local laws to see who is legally responsible for mice. It may be you.  If a tenant is a good tenant otherwise, my partner and I often pay  for small things like an exterminator. If they are not a great tenant consider getting rid of them.

    0Reply
  • Ahmed Saad
    Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2008 · 92 posts · 59 votes
    6y

    The advice I give is the advice of an experienced owner-operator in Brooklyn. Understand that maintaining the property free of vermin is your responsibility. That said follow these steps and you will be fine. Ignore them at your peril.

    1. Hire a licensed pest control company. Don't hire one of the big guys, hire someone that does the work himself and owns the company. I can recommend one or 2 offline if you wish. They are the boots on the ground and tend be be better than a big company that just employs some schmuck who doesn't care.

    2. Walk the property with them. Have them show you the possible points of entry. With mice it' ALL about closing points of entry. If the problem is as bad as you say, you have multiple points of entry and breeding. Close all the open areas and fix things that need to be fixed (think holes around radiator pipes, behind the stove, door sweeps). Fix them ASAP. This just needs a handy man.

    3. Pest control really only works when the whole property is treated. Make sure you secure access to the whole building. Make sure trash areas are kept clean. Make sure no trash if left in the hallways. Explain to the tenants they are NOT to store garbage under the kitchen sink. 

    4. Do monthly service. As winter approaches the problem will get worse, not better.

    5. If you ignore the above, the tenant can call HPD which will, I promise you, be much much much worse than paying $100 month for an exterminator. You will be on the hook for the exterminator, whatever repairs HPD will require you to make, AND the tenant can stop paying rent claiming the premises are not livable. And you cannot recoup lost rent. AND you cannot evict them for non payment. And you will not be able to do a single thing. I don't even know anything about FEPS but if it's a govt program it will make everything worse. 

    6. Welcome to being a NYC landlord and I promise you the advice above is worth it's weight in gold.

    7. Oh, and where there are mice, roaches are not far behind. Make sure you get the property treated for roaches.

    8. Also, it might be worth it to let the tenant have the cat. It is a genuinely good deterrent of mice and you don't need to pay of it ;)

    7Reply
  • Raul R.
    Rental Property Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 493 posts · 386 votes
    6y

    @Ahmed Saad

    Ahmed made excellent points and I agree with everything he said..

    You need to know your market you’re in a very Tenant friendly market consider yourselve lucky I have many landlord friends in NYC that their tenants are having difficulties paying rent due to Covid and stimulus drying up and they can’t do much about it your issue is easy to resolve vs a tenant unable to pay rent. This is why I invest 500 miles away in a good old Red state.

    Pay for the exterminator and follow Ahmed advice i would have done a compromise concerning the pet..I would have allowed for the cat to stay for a pet fee.

    Best of luck

    0Reply
  • Patti RobertsonBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Sounds to me like your tenant is being very reasonable. If you have mice there is an entry point where they are getting in. In winter they enter for warmth.  This is not a reflection on a tenant. 

    757-472-2547
    2Reply
  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    fast trac blox and tamper proof bait stations. https://www.doyourownpestcontr.

    You can buy this stuff and some bait stations and put it down yourself. It's the same stuff the exterminator will put down. Seal up any entry points you can find but they can squeeze in through tiny little spaces. I just keep the blox on hand and rebait 3-4 times per year. Give each tenant a bait station for under the stove and under the sink.

    2Reply
  • Kevin HaPro Member
    OP
    Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Okay guys, thank you for the replies. I will try to resolve this issue as soon as possible and prevent further issues. One thing i worry about is that in my tenants kitchen is a brick facade. it seems like there's a mini crawl space behind the facade and the actual sheet rock.the cabinets and sink and everything else is in front of the facade. Does that mean I have to redo the whole kitchen now? also my home is a semi-attached brick row house. It is the last house at the end of a row of houses, 2 units. Both rented.

    0Reply
  • Ahmed Saad
    Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2008 · 92 posts · 59 votes
    6y

    I am having trouble imagining what you're talking about but just seal up any cracks/holes. Try not to use the spray foam. Literally grab a few bags of steel wool from Home Depot or the like and tear off chunks until the gaps are sealed. If there's a big hole behind the oven or fridge, you can get sheet rock or the steel wire mesh. If you need cement, they make small pre mixed buckets of cement (small) and you can use that.

    Tenants need to let you in to do the repairs. Give written notice of day/time and you're good to go. If someone doesn't let you in that's a different issue. Try to make the number of times you need access minimal. One time to inspect and take note of all holes/gaps etc and identify what materials you need. Ideally this time is with the exterminator. Second time to do all the repairs. 

    What neighborhood?

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    I'd pay for the exterminator and have them explain to the tenant what they can do to keep the mice out.  This will also give you a witness if there is something the tenant is doing to encourage the mice.  Mice can damage wiring in the house leading to bigger problems.  If the tenant is not keeping the house clean, the second time there is a problem-it is on them to pay for it.

    Next year when the lease is up for renewal, increase the rent.  Adding $30 a month will help recoup the costs.

    1Reply
  • Kevin HaPro Member
    OP
    Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Canarsie, Brooklyn

    0Reply
  • Suzanne Ludlum
    Investor · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Ha If it's in the lease and she signed it, then she has agreed to abide by the entire terms of the lease.

    0Reply
  • Patricia Steiner
    Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Please call the exterminator today.  Mice will eat electrical wiring, duct work, drywall, nest in just about everything and be non-paying tenants residing in your roof and walls. Every day you wait could return you more damage and expense than biting the bullet and paying an exterminator.  And, in most states, rodent extermination is the responsibility of the landlord by state Landlord-Tenant Laws.  

    It's just one of the many joys of real estate investing...

    0Reply
  • Kevin HaPro Member
    OP
    Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    5y

    Hi everyone, not sure if you guys get the follow up or not, but I felt that I've love reading follows ups when reading forums, so I figure better late then never. I took some of your guys' advice and set out baits and traps, the professional kind (expensive but it works). I've worked with my tenant that was having the problem and helped cleaned her pantry (, she said that her pantry was clean, as I was cleaning it, there was open bags of rice and pasta chewed through by the mice, which also jumped out at me, fun!). So, that got her act together quiet a bit as we through out all the food that was feeding the little monsters and threw it out. I let her have a cat as it seemed to give her a reason to act effectively and it seems like it was keeping the mice at bay or at least leading her to where it could be. As far as I can tell, I've done a monthly inspection afterwards and she is still taking care of the property. I've also help seal up any holes that seemed to be were the mice was getting in and out. More work but it looks like it paid off. Found 2 dead mice and the problem now all seems to be going gone. I don't know what the spring has in store but it looks like at least for now, It quiet. Thank you for the help. I was freaking out a bit as it was my first property and I'm glad I got through the first hurdle, Thank you guys again!

    1Reply
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