Pandemic, Landlord Rights, Union, & Political Representation

Pandemic, Landlord Rights, Union, & Political Representation

Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes

Hello Everyone,

I don’t know if it’s only me, or rest of you feel the same way during this pandemic. Seems like government’s main concerns are related to tenants and businesses that have employees, whereas; landlords are getting short end of the stick. Major steps are being taken to control the economy and money is being thrown on individuals, businesses, markets, however; not much supporting the landlords directly. Mortgage forbearance is not being mandated by the govt, it’s by the banks and is a temporary relief. You have to pay this money back, however; it’s going to be really hard to get money out of tenants once they are few months behind, leave the house, and/ or face financial hardship.

Looking from another angle, seems really unfair when you see politicians putting together all these programs to directly support tenants and depriving the landlords of their legal rights to evict if not paid. I think it’s unfair that the tenants are being showered with money via stimulus checks, unemployment, SBA, and PPP etc. to pay their bills and not being told that paying rent is one of their top priorities (at least if they get govt support). Don’t get me wrong, I know everyone is taking the hit, and we have to accommodate people that are really suffering, however; my concerns are related to tenants that have money, got money from govt, or in some cases are getting more money now than before, and choose not to pay rent. The purpose of all this stimulus money is to pay the bills and keep the economy going, and rent is the most significant bill most tenants have to pay.

Due to coronavirus situation, if someone chooses to not pay rent, you can kiss your rent goodbye for at least 5-6 months or more…. NJ is not the best/ landlord friendly state to seek evictions as landlord to begin with. Now, after courts being closed for so long, and perhaps considering social distancing guidelines after they open, it might go for months more. If no pressure, I wont be surprised if it prolongs to year or more. Courts should start working online…. Its ancient anyway that we have to go to court to drop simple eviction application. If needed, courts should set up hearing via video conferencing. However, if we don’t push now, it may still take years…

I don’t think landlords fall in category that politicians want to please. Politicians are looking for votes/ donations, and small landlords like us don’t offer either one much.

Purpose of this post is to problem solve on how to get heard, rather than sitting and feeling helpless. To make sure politicians get to hear our concerns when they are taking decisions. If not now, at least in future. Or, to explore if we have an existing channel, that most landlords like myself don’t know about.

Until we problem solve something better, I think that we need to unit… if not at national level, at least at state/ county level. If not to push our demands, at least to make sure that politicians keep this important segment of community/ economy in mind during situations like these. Once we are gathered, we would know how much we can matter. At the very least, we can start/ sign online petitions, we can talk to elected officials, get media attention, or perhaps form a landlord union….… I know one thing, unity/ number of our landlord community members would matter…

Unless some platform like this already exists, I can start consolidating landlord database for NJ. I will recommend we do it via each state, get our roots stronger, and start reaching out to public officials. 

If you went through the whole post, appreciate your patience ;). Please don’t forget to share your thoughts/ comments.

Thanks.

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Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
6y

@Umer M. Chaudhry. Here is the bottomline from the politicians's standpoint. You own a fourplex with 4 different tenants. It's a more beneficial proposition from the politician's standpoint to appeal to the 4 tenants (4 votes) than to one "greedy" Landlord who the politician knows will continue to pay their property taxes, etc regardless of whether the tenants pay rent or not.   

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  • Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    I do agree mostly with Umer what is being daid heere. Being a landlord here in NJ,  I also feel same as rest of you as well. Some or my tenants stopped making payments thinking they would some get away with this at the end mainly because all sort of restrictions put in place by govt that only benefits tenants not anything to the landlord at all other than mortgage forebearance may give you temporary relief however, if tenats can't come up full amount at the end ( which most of the tenants wont be able to) mortgage forebearance periods, landlords will need to come up with all dues which acumulatively will be so high, which most of landlords may not be able to cover plus, tenants may rather just leave which will make a big dents to landlords and/or some cases, landlords wont have any choice other than defaulting mortgage payments which is even more deadlier than it looks. 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    6y

    @Umer M. Chaudhry. Here is the bottomline from the politicians's standpoint. You own a fourplex with 4 different tenants. It's a more beneficial proposition from the politician's standpoint to appeal to the 4 tenants (4 votes) than to one "greedy" Landlord who the politician knows will continue to pay their property taxes, etc regardless of whether the tenants pay rent or not.   

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim Cummings:

    @Umer M. Chaudhry. Here is the bottomline from the politicians's standpoint. You own a fourplex with 4 different tenants. It's a more beneficial proposition from the politician's standpoint to appeal to the 4 tenants (4 votes) than to one "greedy" Landlord who the politician knows will continue to pay their property taxes, etc regardless of whether the tenants pay rent or not.   

     Totally agree, and thats what we need to change by joining forces.  At the state/ county level, once they see thousands of landlords joined together, they will like to listen to secure votes....   Dont think we are asking anything special, however; they need to understand our point of view and interests as well...

  • LakeWood , CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 331 votes
    6y

    I totally agree! We need to somehow make some noise NOW, specially since we don’t know how long this will go on for.... my personal opinion is I don’t think this will go on much longer. I can see maybe a month maybe 2 pushing it but We are in a better position now then we were 2 months ago atleast here in California 

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ricardo P.:

    I totally agree! We need to somehow make some noise NOW, specially since we don’t know how long this will go on for.... my personal opinion is I don’t think this will go on much longer. I can see maybe a month maybe 2 pushing it but We are in a better position now then we were 2 months ago atleast here in California 

    Some states are better, some are worst.  My perception (could be wrong) is that NY is the worst as of now.  I was talking to a friend in MO, and landlords there are hardly feeling anything.  Thats why I suggested that this effort might make more sense being state/ county specific.  In NJ, its not good.  Tenants are possibly two months behind already, and courts are not even open yet.  Once they open, unless noticed/ prioritized, it can easily take 5-6 months more...

  • Darren SagerPro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    If any tenant has said they can't pay due to Covid it's their responsibility to prove the situation.  They just can't claim it and then not pay.  We as owners have to be understanding (and rightfully so if they really have been let go or furloughed), however at the same time their obligation to pay doesn't go away.

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Darren Sager:

    If any tenant has said they can't pay due to Covid it's their responsibility to prove the situation.  They just can't claim it and then not pay.  We as owners have to be understanding (and rightfully so if they really have been let go or furloughed), however at the same time their obligation to pay doesn't go away.

    Agreed, but if they decide not to pay, there is nothing we can do.  With the proposed possibility of the evictions cancelled for up to 12 months...  Average rent for single family is 2500-3000 USD.  It wont be easy to get 30k if not paid for 10 months.. Maybe from white collars, but not from business/ blue collar folks.

    We need to make sure we are heard by politicians before they work on these policies.  If we are not even represented, who can we blame?

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Umer M. Chaudhry

    I agree, it's an unfortunate situation for many landlords who have tenants that are taking advantage of the situation. Of course many people are being hurt, but the current political environment you described is making it worse for some. I have family members with tenants who could pay rent, but stopped paying simply because evictions are not allowed right now. They need better tenants and certainly should have screened better, but it's an example of what is happening to many landlords. I don't think there are any perfect solutions, but there are likely many that would be better than this.

    @Darren Sager True, the tenant's obligation to pay does not go away, morally or legally. It's sad that for some, without the threat of any enforcement (even just in the short term), a decision is made to shirk that responsibility completely.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    There are landlord/rental owner/multi family advocacy/ lobby groups... every city/state has them... they are our political voice and are always at the table when tenant/LL issues are being discussed.  Suggest you look up your local org and join. 

    Also, LLs could get funds via several different options and dont forget - the president is a LL. So its not like we are invisible. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    Politicians pander to anyone that keeps them in power. They give handouts to the poor because it buys votes. They give handouts to the wealthy because it brings the politician money and influence.

    The little guy in the middle with a couple rentals? Your vote probably can't be bought for a $1,200 check or free phone, you don't have enough money to make a difference to the politicians pocket, and you can hardly influence your own renters. 

    In the big scheme of things, you don't matter until there are enough of you joined together to represent a threat.

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  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    There are landlord/rental owner/multi family advocacy/ lobby groups... every city/state has them... they are our political voice and are always at the table when tenant/LL issues are being discussed.  Suggest you look up your local org and join. 

    Also, LLs could get funds via several different options and dont forget - the president is a LL. So its not like we are invisible. 

    Thats a great idea, if one exists. I looked, didnt find anything except POA, which doesnt seem like provide the purpose... If anyone knows about one, would appreciate if can share.

    I actually thought of president and bigger LLs.... however, I had the same opinion as shared by Nathan G. below.  If you are at that level, you would have connections in the town, county, state.... and possibly national level  President is a LL, but his league is different.  All the programs he proposed, kind of potentially support businesses like his.  E.g. he would have employees to qualify for PPP, normal landlords like us dont..

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    Politicians pander to anyone that keeps them in power. They give handouts to the poor because it buys votes. They give handouts to the wealthy because it brings the politician money and influence.

    The little guy in the middle with a couple rentals? Your vote probably can't be bought for a $1,200 check or free phone, you don't have enough money to make a difference to the politicians pocket, and you can hardly influence your own renters. 

    In the big scheme of things, you don't matter until there are enough of you joined together to represent a threat.

    Exactly, thats why we need to team up... otherwise, we will never get their attention...

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Umer M. Chaudhry. There are many many different organizations you can join....  i dont know where your interest lies, but a simple google search will return a lot of results.  There are local, regional, state and national orgs....  they ALL are advocates for LLs in one way or another and in general the lobbying/advocating they do is effective.   The state/regional ones are usually the heavy lifters for state laws and the national orgs for federal laws.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Nathan Gesner there are even national associations for independent LLs.  My point is - there are ways to amplify your voice :)

    https://landlordassociation.co...

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    @Nathan Gesner there are even national associations for independent LLs.  My point is - there are ways to amplify your voice :)

    https://landlordassociation.co...

     "there are ways to amplify your voice", thats exactly what we are looking for.  I have been searching on Google, and have seen the site you mentioned above as well.  However, they mostly focus on helping day to day operations of landlords...  Will get in touch with them tom to find out more...   and, will keep looking :)..

    Thanks...

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Not specific to SFHs but these are the big boys :)

    https://www.nmhc.org/
    https://www.naahq.org/

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    We have a major election this November . In some Cities and States with large rental populations I dont see the eviction courts opening up , and if they do I dont see them moving fast to grant evictions.  It wont help the party in power policically .

    To be blunt  , If they havent paid for a month or 2 , you arent gonna see any money . You may get a judgement and an eviction in spring 2021

  • LakeWood , CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 331 votes
    6y

    @Matthew Paul I highly doubt it will take that long. We first have to think about the economy coming back up. For example here in California they are opening back up. Courts open in acouple of weeks here. Now that doesn’t mean anything but little by little everything should be back to normal. My guess would be another month or 2 

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ricardo P.:

    @Matthew Paul I highly doubt it will take that long. We first have to think about the economy coming back up. For example here in California they are opening back up. Courts open in acouple of weeks here. Now that doesn’t mean anything but little by little everything should be back to normal. My guess would be another month or 2 

    Another month or two, and then 3-4 months more for Eviction, you are already at 8-9 months (since shutdown)... and that seems like a good scenario.  I would hope for this, but I think we need to prepare for what @Mathew Paul mentioned above...

  • LakeWood , CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 331 votes
    6y

    @Umer M. Chaudhry I guess it all depends on the city or state we live in. I heard out in Texas everything is already back to normal If I’m not mistaken. Some states were hit harder from the pandemic others not so bad. All we can do now is just hope for the best.

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ricardo P.:

    @Umer M. Chaudhry I guess it all depends on the city or state we live in. I heard out in Texas everything is already back to normal If I’m not mistaken. Some states were hit harder from the pandemic others not so bad. All we can do now is just hope for the best.

    True, thats why we want this representation at the state/ county level, at least to begin with.  There are lots of variations from state to state, even in general...

  • LakeWood , CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 331 votes
    6y

    Let’s get it going!!! LANDLORDS UNITE🇺🇸

  • Investor · Clifton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ricardo P.:

    Let’s get it going!!! LANDLORDS UNITE🇺🇸

    Thats the passion we need :).. Why cant landlords have a union... 

  • Rental Property Investor · Mine Hill, NJ · Member since 2014 · 229 posts · 396 votes
    6y

    Hey Umer I am fortunate that all my tenants have been paying rent... but like you say if they stop... I don’t know what tools I have left to use. 

    @Darren Sager what could we ask for from our tenants to prove whether they can or can’t our rent? Bank statements showing loss of income?  Let me know you strategy, thanks!

  • Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes
    6y

    @Umer M. Chaudhry

    Our societies baseline is to protect the weakest. We used to be a strong country that pulled together to solve problems, just look at WWII

    911 happened and now we cannot wait at the gates for our loved ones and have to strip practically naked to prove we aren’t terrorists. The Great Recession hits and we blame the banks only and not the buyer.

    Chinese virus pandemic and now we have to hid while .1% of the US population dies from this virus. Govt closes the economies as though they are fascists and we are forced at gun point to stay at home and close out businesses. We send trillions of dollars to those who were forced out of a job and money to those of us like me that don’t need the help. Govt sucks at most things and aren’t fiscally irresponsible.

    So going forward, don’t expect any help from the govt. make wise decisions and look out for yourself.

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