Pa section 8 anyone an expert?

Question

Hello, I'm looking for information on laws/how to get set up with section 8 in PA.

also, if you have any good (or bad) stories I'd love to read them.

Keith Leckey · Answer

Hi @Kevin Miller, another fellow Johnstown investor here.  I have several Section 8 tenants and overall have had a good experience with the program.  When you list your properties, you can include in the listing that you're willing to accept Section 8 applicants.  You can also call the Housing Authority to have your contact information added to their list of available landlords that accept Section 8.  There is no such thing as a "Section 8 approved" rental.  While a property may have had a Section 8 tenant residing in it at one time, the process starts all over with every new tenant.

Screening a prospective Section 8 tenant should be handled exactly the same as when you screen a non-Section 8 tenant.  Do your same background and credit checks and other requirements that you do with every other applicant.  You do not have to accept a Section 8 applicant if they do not meet an item on your application that would normally disqualify a non-Section 8 applicant.  The income aspect is a little different though, because you will not be able to verify, or they may not show income on their application if they don't have any.  The Housing Authority calculates what each individual tenant is able to afford based on their bedroom needs and income.  HUD has a guideline on market rates for 1 BR, 2 BR, 3BR, etc.  These rent rate amounts include both the rent and all utilities.  Based on income, a tenant may only get partial financial assistance with the rent, some may get their rent paid 100%, some get an allowance toward their utility bills.  As standard practice should be with any rental/tenant, rent should not be more than a certain, set percentage of their income.  If your asking amount is too high for a particular applicant, the Housing Authority may ask if you would be willing to adjust your rent to fall within the required numbers for that applicant.  If the numbers still work  for you, you can adjust.  If you don't want to adjust, you can just tell them you're not going to adjust the rent for that property and stop the process at that point.

On the other end, evictions are exactly the same as well.  If the lease is breached for any reason, you handle that breach the same as you would for any tenant.  There is nothing different about a Section 8 tenant from a non-Section 8 tenant other than they are getting some assistance with part or all of their monthly rent.

After (and only after) you accept a Section 8 applicant, you will ask them for their Landlord Booklet which you will fill out and turn in to the Housing Authority.  This is where they review rent amounts, verify number of bedrooms to their voucher requirements, etc.  They will allow someone to rent a property with more bedrooms than what's on their voucher, but not less as long as the rent amount meets their requirements (ex/ a 2BR voucher can rent a 3BR, but not a 1BR).  After all is accepted by the Housing Authority with the booklet, they will schedule an inspection where they come out and check a list of items including looking for peeling paint, windows open/close/lock, smoke detectors /co detectors / fire extinguishers all in the right locations, GFI receptacles in the correct locations, grounded receptacles if 3 prong (ground not needed if 2 prong), and the list goes on.  I think you can get a list off of the Housing Authority ahead of time to make sure you can try and have everything as ready as possible.  We aim to stick with the same guidelines with all our rental properties whether they are Section 8 or not.  If something does need corrected, they will give you a couple weeks to make the changes and do a re-inspection, or you can tell them at that point you don't want to move forward with the program at that property and end everything there.  Rental assistance/payments will begin the date the property passes the inspection.

There are landlords that do not like the Section 8 program or want to be involved with it, either due to a bad tenant experience (which can happen in or out of the program) or simply from stereotype or ignorance of the program.  Personally, I have had a good experience with the program and the tenants I've had through the program.  The main thing is to screen your applicants in a consistent manner, Section 8 or not.  Unfortunately nothing is guaranteed, but that's going to give you the best shot at success.

Keep me posted on how things go and let me know if you need help with anything.Keith

Chris Nocera · Answer

@Alex Deacon By HACP, I mean Housing Authority of City of Pittsburgh...same as section 8.  This is a city property and I am dealing with Pittsburgh Section 8, not Allegheny County.

@Anthony Angotti I had very little issue with my inspection.  We failed a few things on the first inspection, but very minor stuff that was fixable in a days work.  They came back out almost immediately and reinspected and passed us.  I got ahold of the inspection manager at the HACP office to specifically ask him about the situation you mention...where they come up with a new list of items the 2nd time around...he informed me that they cannot do this and I should not expect that to happen.  Perhaps they have become a little more reasonable lately in regards to the inspection process.  I get the sense that they are really struggling to keep landlords as they are offering several incentives/perks for landlords.  Also, when you look at the listings, there are very few section 8 properties available.  I've gotten 100 calls for one 3-bedroom home.

Keith Leckey · Answer

@Austin Mountain made a great point.  Evictions with any tenant are much easier for non payment of rent because it is easy to provide the proof.  However, other breaches of the lease can be more difficult to prove.  This is true for all tenants.  Our local magistrates handle landlord/tenant complaints the same whether they are Section 8 or non-Section 8 tenants.  It is up to you to provide the documentation / evidence of the breach to back up your complaint and the judge will take it from there.  Our Housing Authority does not get involved with evictions that are filed by the landlord (for monetary or non-monetary reasons) and leaves those decisions to the local Magisterial Courts.  The Housing Authority will discontinue a tenants assistance if they find that they are breaching the Housing Authorities lease also (while we use our own lease for all tenants, the Housing Authority also has their lease with the tenant for the assistance portion), which does make it easier to file for eviction in the event they do not pay their own rent after the assistance has ended.  The Housing Authority only gets directly involved with an eviction if it is with a tenant residing within a Housing Authority owned property.

It seems different area's / cities handle things a little differently regarding the Section 8 program.  My input is only in relation to my personal experience with our local Housing Authority / Section 8 program.

Jason H. · Answer

I can totally appreciate what @Keith Leckey @Austin Mountain have described regarding their personal experiences and the fact that the three of us have given you very lengthy responses to the realities of Section 8 should tell you alone the complexities that you will no doubt be dealing with if you care to enter into the program.  Unless you really are dead set on going into this type of area for your first time purchase, I would recommend you save up more and get yourself into a slightly better location.  I don’t know your background whatsoever, but if you are a first time with not much experience, you should think twice about entering into an agreement where you are at the mercy of two entities (the program inspector & the tenant) that determine whether or not you are fit to get paid by them.  If you don’t pass the stringent inspections (at least in PGH), then you’re not going to get paid.  Didn’t pass the program inspection?  Then the tenant has the right not to pay  their portion of the rent.  And who potentially caused you not to pass?  That’s right...the tenant.

The only reason I can see you going into the program is if (1) you definitely want to invest in this area and (2) the rent you’re getting from Section 8 is more than you would get from the open market.

Leo Maldonado · Answer

Anyone have a solid reccomendation for a PM that handles section 8 in the PIT?

Steven Clevenger · Answer

You should read the "section 8 bible", the guys who wrote it are based out of your state.

Anthony Angotti · Answer

The tenants aren't bad if you screen appropriately.

The inspections can be a nightmare. We've fixed everything on their list before to have them come back and see all of those items fixed and add new things before approval. Then do it again and have new things come up the next time.

This has happened to me multiple times and only 3 of my 100+ units are section 8. And only because I inherited those tenants...... the inspections are what makes me not want to do section 8. I also maintain my buildings pretty well compared to most area landlords. They don't find much, but the constant moving the goalposts is a mess.

Alex Deacon · Answer

@Chris Nocera as far as I know section 8 here in Pittsburgh supplies the lease. We have to use their lease. What area is your section 8 property? I only deal with Allegheny county and Pittsburgh

Chris Nocera · Answer

@Alex Deacon Can you provide any insight on a timeline for HACP drafting leases.  I'm going through the process for the first time and we completed inspection without much issue.  Now they just need to draft the lease, which they said has a 30-60 day timeline.  If it took 30 days that would put the entire process at about 75 days, which is quite long.  Any longer than that and I'll be hesitant to do this in the future.  I'm hoping the norm to draft a boiler plate lease is closer to a week or two.

Alex Deacon · Answer

@Kevin Miller Section 8 has its pros and cons. We manage 700 units in the Pittsburgh market and about 10% are section 8. If I had my preference I would choose not to own or manage section  properties. I know most landlords hate it but I do know a few that do well. Section 8 is management intensive so if you are not ready for that world then dont go there. You will never know till you at least try it.

Pa section 8 anyone an expert?

Most Popular Reply