HELP! Advice needed: Delinquent Month to Month Tenant

HELP! Advice needed: Delinquent Month to Month Tenant

Investor · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 11 votes

Hello fellow BP members,

I hope to get some advice on a tenant situation I've been struggling with for the past year.

Tenant moved in a little over a year ago and signed a year lease. Since moving in, they've always paid their rent late (typically 25 days +) but I've kept them on since they made the case that their financial situation was temporary. I had never sent them an eviction letter to date as they would eventually pay rent including the associated late fees. 

I've also had to stay on them every month to maintain the yard work (kept getting HOA letters with heavy fines accruing every month. Luckily I was able to get multiple exceptions from the HOA and get it cleared). Basically, these tenants have been a real pain to deal with and have been slow to respond to communication.

I put them on a month to month lease this past December after having a chat with them. They said that their financial situation was coming to a resolution and  they promised to keep me in the loop and more responsive. Lo and behold, their payments continued to come in 25+ days late and while I was able to collect March rent, they failed to pay any of the late fees this time. 

I've reached out to them multiple times but they've since gone silent and I can't get a hold of them. I don't plan on pushing them out on the streets during this Corona crisis but need to get their attention and take some action. 

Technically speaking, since our contract is month to month, can I just ask them to move at the end of the month? 

If they stayed after I provided the move out notice will I then need to evict?

What action would you take next? 

Thank you in advance for checking out my post. Your advice would be greatly appreciated! 

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Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
6y

If you are in an area where the courts are closed, and evictions are suspended, you are out of luck.  These people will sit in the unit, not paying you a penny, and when this is all over, they will up and move and you'll be out 6 months' rent.  Or worse, you'll have to evict them, and you'll lose legal fees and even more months of rent.

In future, this is how you deal with late payers.  You express sympathy for their problem.  You wish them the best.  You tell them, "I'm sure you understand that I just have to start the paperwork moving.  I am sure you will clear all this up when your ship comes in.  And I hope you understand that I just have to start the paperwork moving along.  It will only add X dollars for the marshal service fee, (and the lawyer, if you use one).  And if you're able to clear it all up by such and such a date, I won't even have to file the summons and complaint (after which your name would appear in court records), at an added cost of Y dollars.  And even after that, it would still take two weeks to get into court.  So really, it's no problem, just adds some costs to you.

After you do this a few times and it winds up costing them money to get back into good standing, they'll either stop, or you'll wind up evicting them.

With the problem with the courts being closed, you're probably gonna need a really good eviction lawyer.

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  • Aaron ZimmermanBusiness Member
    Accountant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Following. Unfortunately I don't have any advice on this, but definitely feel for you. Best of luck!

  • Investor · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    @Aaron Zimmerman thanks Aaron!

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    You have to give them the required notice. Most states require 30 days but some states require longer notice. Check your laws. I would find out what your state requires and give them notice to vacate. You need to get rid of them. At the same time, seriously consider whether you're cut out for managing your own rentals. A property manager costs you 10%. IF you get out of this and lose less than 10%, I'll be real surprised.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    6y

    If you are in an area where the courts are closed, and evictions are suspended, you are out of luck.  These people will sit in the unit, not paying you a penny, and when this is all over, they will up and move and you'll be out 6 months' rent.  Or worse, you'll have to evict them, and you'll lose legal fees and even more months of rent.

    In future, this is how you deal with late payers.  You express sympathy for their problem.  You wish them the best.  You tell them, "I'm sure you understand that I just have to start the paperwork moving.  I am sure you will clear all this up when your ship comes in.  And I hope you understand that I just have to start the paperwork moving along.  It will only add X dollars for the marshal service fee, (and the lawyer, if you use one).  And if you're able to clear it all up by such and such a date, I won't even have to file the summons and complaint (after which your name would appear in court records), at an added cost of Y dollars.  And even after that, it would still take two weeks to get into court.  So really, it's no problem, just adds some costs to you.

    After you do this a few times and it winds up costing them money to get back into good standing, they'll either stop, or you'll wind up evicting them.

    With the problem with the courts being closed, you're probably gonna need a really good eviction lawyer.

  • Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 22 votes
    6y

    I live in Nj and have same problem with a tenant in Florida; They are always behind in payments, they keep promising things, they try to be too smart skipping rent and thinking that you wont notice it, etc etc , plus you make agreements with them to help them , and at the end, its all Bs.  I think most of this kind of people( not all) already got used to live like that, cheating on banks, car dealers , changing jobs, claiming unemployment, i dont think they ll ever change. Bonus: they are not very neat, smoke , drink a lot, get in trouble with law etc etc, i have had two like this, its a nightmare.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    What action would I take?  I would spend a fewdays reading up on my local tenant/landlord laws.... then I would send the required notice for unpaid rent. my guess is your tenant feels you wont do anything. So, you need to do something. 

    You may not be able to evict depending on your location, but you must start documenting so that when you can evict you will have everything ready 



  • Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Sorry to hear of your predicament. If the property is in California, it’s impossible to do anything now.  Moratorium on evictions for a few months.  You should contact an attorney.

  • AJ ShepardPro Member
    Real Estate Syndicator · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 453 posts · 312 votes
    6y

    First of all, I am not an attorney and cannot give legal advice. I am sorry to hear about the difficulty you've been dealing with this tenant. I suggest you check your state laws and find out what your state says about this particular situation. Currently the federal guidelines in the CARES act prevent you from giving the tenant any notice of termination or eviction or charge late fees during this time. In most states, landlords must provide at least 30 days' notice to end a month-to-month tenancy and give them notice to vacate. I have heard though, that if the tenant provides or signs an agreement to move out than that could not be construed as notice (cash for keys situation). In the future, staying diligent with sending proper notices of late payment and not allowing for 25+ days late would be better. Yes, it's a lot of work, but that's why owning real estate is profitable. Screen your tenants so you don't get in these situations. I'd say these are not good tenants and you would rather have tenants that pay on time and take care of the property, probably the best solution is to work out an agreement that they agree to leave or wait for the moratorium to be lifted and persue eviction for non payment.

  • Investor · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Thank you so much for all the great replies! I've been pretty good about screening my tenants and being ultra selective. All my other tenants have been great over the years but you just never know sometimes. 

    @AJ Shepard - Didn't know that I couldn't provide any notice of termination.. I'll take a closer look at the CARES act. Thanks!

    @Scott Allen - Property is in GA but I think the eviction moratorium is nationwide atm 

    @Mary M. - I use TenantCloud software to manage and it should send late notices but I will be sure to send something out right away and document.

    @Jhon Restrepo - Hey Jhon, I feel you.. it appears we're in the same boat. Probably should have given them a termination notice when the 1 year lease ended. Wish you the best as well!

    @Karen F. - Thanks for the advice Karen I agree. I'm always empathetic with my tenants needs but maintain my ground. I believe Georgia is a landlord friendly state so hope it doesn't get dragged out too long.

     @Nathan Gesner - Hey Nathan, I've self managed all my other properties without any issues until this one (granted I only have 5 at the moment so not that much work). All my other tenants have been very polite, communicative and easy to manage. This current situation has got me thinking about getting a PM for sure!

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    I'm not trying to insult you. A lot of Landlords buy a few investments and think it's easy because the get decent renters and everything rolls smooth. Then a bad tenant (or two) comes along and wakes you up to reality. Next thing you know, you've lost $20,000 and are so tired and stressed that you sell everything off and run back to the stock market.

    It's better to get a fitness coach when you are 20 pounds overweight than when you are 120 pounds overweight.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Warren Z.:

    Hello fellow BP members,

    I hope to get some advice on a tenant situation I've been struggling with for the past year.

    Tenant moved in a little over a year ago and signed a year lease. Since moving in, they've always paid their rent late (typically 25 days +) but I've kept them on since they made the case that their financial situation was temporary. I had never sent them an eviction letter to date as they would eventually pay rent including the associated late fees. 

    I've also had to stay on them every month to maintain the yard work (kept getting HOA letters with heavy fines accruing every month. Luckily I was able to get multiple exceptions from the HOA and get it cleared). Basically, these tenants have been a real pain to deal with and have been slow to respond to communication.

    I put them on a month to month lease this past December after having a chat with them. They said that their financial situation was coming to a resolution and  they promised to keep me in the loop and more responsive. Lo and behold, their payments continued to come in 25+ days late and while I was able to collect March rent, they failed to pay any of the late fees this time. 

    I've reached out to them multiple times but they've since gone silent and I can't get a hold of them. I don't plan on pushing them out on the streets during this Corona crisis but need to get their attention and take some action. 

    Technically speaking, since our contract is month to month, can I just ask them to move at the end of the month? 

    If they stayed after I provided the move out notice will I then need to evict?

    What action would you take next? 

    Thank you in advance for checking out my post. Your advice would be greatly appreciated! I

    I wouldn't do nething.  I would just hope they they keep paying 25 days late.  At least for now. 

    Why do LLs keep nagging their tenants?  Seems like ignore their bad behavior up to a point.  Then send a legal notice.  & just progress legally.  

    not saying this is op.  Maybe it's because LLs really need the money? kind of like desperate salesman can't sell.  & poor LLs aren't as patient picking a tenant, need to get top dollar out of a property, desperate for rent.  dunno. 

    I've reached out to them multiple times

    seems like this each time you reach out, you show them you aren't going to do anything?  If they're decent people they probably feel guilty.  Seems like you're enabling & been covering for their bad behavior yard & late rent.  1st time late maybe just send legal letter.  Communicating you aren't messing around. 

  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    You have to give them the required notice. Most states require 30 days but some states require longer notice. Check your laws. I would find out what your state requires and give them notice to vacate. You need to get rid of them. At the same time, seriously consider whether you're cut out for managing your own rentals. A property manager costs you 10%. IF you get out of this and lose less than 10%, I'll be real surprised.

     he would be out one month rent already 10%*10months & some take 1st month rent?  & my experience some PMs just don't add value.  so diy'ing maybe ahead.  then again good pm might have avoided lawn & lates & headaches. 

  • Investor · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    @Nathan Gesner - Thanks for the follow up, your comments were helpful. I didn't take it in a negative way :)

    It's not a fun situation to be in but if I have to evict, it will provide a good learning experience. Luckily there are a few eviction services in my area that can handle the process once the corona situation is lifted. 

    I've just sent the tenant an email documenting the late payments and invited them to jump on a quick call to see if there are some workable options moving ahead. Hopefully they will respond.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Warren Z. Time to start the eviction process, which is probably suspended currently. But get that ball rolling now

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    6y

    In many states, you can get in line for the court, by filing the notice to quit or its equivalent, and the summons and complaint or its equivalent.  The courts are still accepting filings electronically or by mail.  That way, you'll be first in line for a court hearing date to get them out, and they'll know that you're serious this time, and maybe pay up.

    Unfortunately, in my state (CT), the governor just gave tenants a loud and clear invitation to simply pay no rent, by publicly ordering that they could use the second month of their security deposit as rent, and by giving them a 60 day grace period on rent.  But in other states, you may have options.  In this climate, I'd use a really savvy eviction lawyer who ONLY does evictions, and who is young enough and smart enough to be able to learn the new regulations, and tech savvy enough to do all filings electronically.

  • Investor · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth Thanks for your reply

    @Karen F. Thanks for your reply and sorry to hear about your state situation. It seems counterintuitive for governors to tell all tenants including those that have the capacity to pay not to pay their rents. Not all landlords are flush with cash and we still have mortgages to pay too. 

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    6y

    BTW, OP mentioned that maybe he'd just get a PM, as if a PM would be better at managing his few properties than he is.  If one really has no interest in managing a few properties, one should consider selling.  Does anyone really believe that a PM is more highly motivated to make your properties produce than you are, just because you are paying him a flat rate?

  • Investor · Port Townsend, WA · Member since 2014 · 103 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Karen F.

    I am a softie...I could never evict a Single Mother with 2 Kids if I knew the tenants...I interact with 3 different PM companies and I see the good traits of Detached Attitude among them. For people like me, YES, absolutely they should use PM. That 10% fee is so worth it. I sleep well and I only think about the Cash Reserve and Next Investment, not the current rentals I own. 

  • Avery CarlBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · USA · Member since 2016 · 909 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Give them the required notice and get them out asap. If you allow bad behavior, it will only continue. Hard lesson here in why you have to be pretty strict with late rent payments. Once the precedent is set it's very hard to go back. Good luck!

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