Dishwasher in Small ADU?

Question

Hello,

I’m currently in the drafting phase of building an ADU on my property in Normal Heights, San Diego (A/B neighborhood). The first drawing has it at 374 sqft with the option of making it as big as 450 sqft. The bigger it is, the more of my backyard it takes away.

I plan to possibly rent it out on Airbnb but also want to make it attractive to a long-term tenant if/when I go that route. I plan to have a washer/dryer in the unit (or at least hook-ups). With that in mind, I'm considering the following options for a dishwasher:

- No dishwasher

- 24” dishwasher (standard size)

- 18” dishwasher (fewer options, same price as 24”)

Anybody been in this position/any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ben

Seth Borman · Answer

If it were me I would do a 450 SF with one bedroom and a full bathroom, a dishwasher, stackable W/D and minisplit.

Why? The total cost for the appliances will be a few thousand more, rent will be several hundred more, and it'll land me the best tenants I can pick from.

If you want to do the smaller unit do a one bedroom with a 3/4 bath, a dishwasher and a stackable W/D with a minisplit.

Lynnette E. · Answer

Forget about either dishwasher you mentioned.  Get dishwasher DRAWERS.  You can get a 2 stack of drawers or a single drawer.  They take up less space than a full size dishwasher.  And it lets a single person run it with it full every day or two.  If they only have a small amount of dishes they won't feel like they are wasting space. electricity, and WATER  running it half full to get the dishes cleaned so they can be reused.  It will cost more upfront, but its worth it, especially when you consider the cost of building the whole unit.  Upscale, modern, space saving things will typically increase the unit's value, competitiveness, and rent, especially in the small units.  Let them feel like they have the best of everything in the small space.

Dan H. · Answer

It would be a very big pot that does not fit in an 18" dishwasher.  Even two fairly good size pots should fit.  The height and depth is still full counter height/depth, but it is 6" narrower (probably ~16" wide interior).  This implies, by staggering the pots, you can fit two pots that are bigger than 8" diameter.  I suspect you can fit two 10' diameter pots (staggered depth wise) or one 16" pot.  Those are pretty large pots.

I can see someone with a large family or who entertains a lot may desire the larger dishwasher (and have a need for larger pots), but most of those people will not be renting such a small unit.   When we entertain, the meals are typically more fancy with more dishes consumed and we often can fill the 24" dishwasher after one such meal (and sometimes can fill it multiple times with one such meal) but that is rare and our house is a different size than the ADU (We have had over 30 for a sit down dinner in the past - not all seated in the dining room).

I suspect many people who rent the ADU will have a single set of dishes.  The 18" dishwasher may be able to handle a large percentage of all of their dishes.

Dan H. · Answer

CA ADU rules are quite restrictive on conditions when an ADU built under the current regulations can be used for a STR (i.e. Airbnb).   There is allegedly a loophole, but the intent of the ADU regulations is that the ADU help address the housing crisis.

As to your question, I would not place a dishwasher is such a small unit.  Many of our 2 BR units do not have a dishwasher.  In addition, it is an additional item that will require maintenance/cap ex.

Good luck

Ben Martin · Answer

I appreciate your replies all.

Account Closed's point that many people could get by with 18".

@Seth Borman completely agree on the features you listed. I'm leaning towards a smaller unit because larger will significantly impact the aesthetics of my backyard, so it's a balancing act. If I'm making it bigger it needs to be for a good reason that increases rent, allows space for something important, etc.

@Justin R. appreciate your feedback. I do need to be careful about providing enough cabinet/storage space in the kitchen and am still figuring this part out.

Account Closed · Answer

I'm a tenant now and living in senior apartment buildings.  I now live in a 424 square foot 1 bedroom apartment, the last two I was in were very tiny studios, one being only 115 square feet.

I cook and I can.  I use large pots.  I would kill for a 24" dishwasher!  No, you may not fill it up with dishes and cups, but if you are a cook who uses stock pots, you'll love the larger dishwasher.

Tenants love dishwashers because they free up counter space.  So, even if the unit is tiny, it's the functionality that will keep tenants longer.

And by the way, go for the bigger square foot size ADU.  To heck with yard space - it's more for you to maintain anyway.  In a perfect world, I'd buy a property with the smallest amount of yard space possible, so tenants who needed yards for dogs and kids would screen themselves out, and I'd have less yard to manage.  I also would use a nice gravel instead of cement, so I didn't have to maintain the cement.

Moral: go for more counter space and functionality for the tenant (and storage space!), and less yard maintenance for you.  That's what I'd go for.

So, that was the long answer to yes to the larger dishwasher for better class tenant.  Tenants will put up with not having one, but they will love having one - even if they tell their friends they never use it to save water and the planet :-)

Account Closed · Answer

@Ben Martin double check your pricing, in my area i pay double for a 18” dishwasher. And definitely put one in. I haven’t met a millennial that has ever hand washed anything, including their car.

Jaysen Medhurst · Answer

Good choice, @Ben Martin. This has been a good discussion. Thanks for getting it started.

@Dan Heuschele, you'll dig this the most. Too expensive for a rental, but what you described is exactly how these machines are expected to be used.

Justin R. · Answer

@Ben Martin As a practical matter, we don't put dishwashers in our smaller units (<500sf).  The issue is actually the space they take - it takes up significant space that would otherwise be very valuable for kitchen storage and therefore forces a larger sized kitchen.  No argument that, given all things equal, tenant prefer to have a dishwasher.  In most cases, I've just found layouts work better and kitchen scale is more correct without them when dealing with limited space.

More power to you whatever you end up doing, but just giving you some learnings from the trenches.  All the best!

Ben Martin · Answer

I appreciate the input @Dan Heuschele and @Jaysen Medhurst, it's great to hear both sides of the argument. Since I'm going for a higher-end unit/rental price and am including a washer/dryer, I think I'm going to include a dishwasher and go with the standard 24". Options for 18" are too limited and they are the same price if not more expensive.

I agree it may be overkill for a small studio like this, but it also seems expected (or at least an advantage) for the type of tenant I'm going for.

Thanks for the input on STR Dan, I will look more into this for San Diego and my neighborhood. But these days I'm leaning more towards LTR anyway.

Dishwasher in Small ADU?

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