Hired 3 attorneys and still can't evict my tenant

Hired 3 attorneys and still can't evict my tenant

Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes

Hi, 

I am experiencing a horrible issue with evicting my tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent.

I sent an order to evict my tenant for non payment of rent in August 2019 and I asked for my keys since she was consecutively late. When I did serve her she showed up in court with legal aid suing me for being an unfair debt collector by charging over 5% of the rent.

Themagistrate sided with the tenant, said that I owed her $2,250 in rent and offset her rent owed to me which left me paying her $576. I appealed the decision.

As I was retaining my attorney my tenant destroyed my property after court causing $855 in water damages by using maxi pads and flushing them down the toilet.

While on appeal legal aid asked for a discovery which delayed another 30 days. Court was pushed back from 10-18-19 to 11-18-19. Legal aid filed for a continuance which pushed the court date to 1-6-2020.

In November I hired a 2nd attorney and explained my case and they advised that since she did not pay October and November that is a separate breach and I could evict her again. I paid his fee and we filed the eviction. While we were at court legal aid said there was a pending case for the same parties in a higher Court and requested that my 2nd attempt to be dismissed. The magistrate sided with legal aid. We appealed it.

Both of my attorneys went to court on 12-20-19 for summary judgement because at this point it was 4 months since this person has not paid rent and using legal aid to do so.

One summary was denied but another was granted for imposing a rent bond. That was signed off by the judge on 12-30-2019 and it was ordered that she pay the bond by 12-27-2019. She never paid it.

I have an order for a rent bond for the month of December 2019 and the tenant did not pay the bond for December and January. Legal aid said that the judge did not have a right to impose the bond and the only option for her is to go to jail if she does not pay and you can't put someone in jail for a civil matter.

We went to court on 1-3-2020 for summary judgement to a judge for the 2nd breach and the judge dismissed our case but it was continued on 1-13-2020.

Our unfair debt collector case was heard on 1-6-2020 and the judge heard all of the testimony and awarded the tenant $1,500 in damages and awarded me $7,295 in rent. That only covered rent up to the day of court. 

Legal aid said that I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession.

This tenant has lived in my property for 9 months and has only paid 3 months rent. In 10 days it will be 7 months that she is behind in rent and legal aid told the judge that I need to file another eviction for possession.

We went before another judge on 1-16-2020 and he would be the 5th judge on this case. Legal aid disputed every fact that was tried before him. The judge said that he would have to go through the entire motions, case laws, and then make a ruling. He is a new judge in civil matters. To date I have not received his judgement. 

It should not be this hard to get someone out of your property who broke the lease by not paying, is a hold over tenant, damaging the property and still will not leave.

Again this is almost month 7 in which this woman and her 6 + guests who are living in this property (tenant + 3 children on the lease and she has 5 other people living in the property who are not on the lease which I've confirmed) to be evicted.

I had to hire a 3rd attorney on Friday 1-17-2020 regarding my case.

The unfortunate part is NC is making people like me sell property or not rent property to lower income people who don't make 3-4 times the rent due to the laws that are set in place.

If people like me decide to rent out our homes we are forced to hire management companies who have the same requirements as apartment complexes and no affordable housing will be available for lower income people.

Thanks to the magistrates and the judge's who are dismissing cases like mine and are the exact reasons why rent has significantly increased and incomes don't meet the housing shortage.

To date I have spent over $8,000 in legal fees and I still do not have possession. Legal aid said I need to file another summary ejectment. I sent a 10 day letter and the tenant refused to sign the certified mail but I had it taped to the door in case this exact thing happened. 

I have emailed our NC State legislatives regarding my case and I still don't have an answer. 

Here are the facts for this case:

Late Fee was deemed a violation of NC and plaintiff was fined $500.00 per every late fee assessed. (Total of $1,500.00) I actually charged the 5% late fee but it was written wrong in the lease and I was fined $500 per late fee assessed by the judge. 

Tenant has NOT paid since 08/01/2019.

Tenant used legal aid for services and legal aid has NOT advised their client to pay rent and is doing all they can to keep possession with the defendant.

Plaintiff terminated the lease as of 08/16/2019 and tenant refused to leave.

Plaintiff terminated the lease again as of 11/18/2019 and tenant refused to leave.

Defendant was ordered to pay the rent bond as of December in the amount of $1,395.00 and has not paid.

Defendant was ordered to pay the rent bond as of January 2020 in the amount of $1395.00 and has not paid

Case was heard in front of 5 Judges

Plaintiff (pending) filing a 4th summary ejectment the week of 01/28/2020

  • The facts are the tenant has NOT paid rent and I keep doing what the court asks me to do and the court is allowing her to stay in the property without paying which is illegal.

Can anyone give me any sound advise on my case? All of my attorneys said they have never seen a case like mine before and I'm thinking this is the new normal here in Mecklenburg county. 

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Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
6y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi, 

I am experiencing a horrible issue with evicting my tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent.

1) I sent an order to evict my tenant for non payment of rent in August 2019 and I asked for my keys since she was consecutively late. When I did serve her she showed up in court with legal aid suing me for being an unfair debt collector by charging over 5% of the rent.

Landlords are deemed to be debt collectors under some state laws and this seems pretty reasonable as a fine if you ran afoul of those state laws.  The American legal system does not place a moral judgment on those that breach contract, and you're not allowed to treat people like criminals for breaking a contract.

2) As I was retaining my attorney my tenant destroyed my property after court causing $855 in water damages by using maxi pads and flushing them down the toilet.

This does not seem a proximate cause.  To show liability, one must show that the actions of the party against whom judgment is sought are the direct and proximate cause of your injury.  $855 in water damages sounds like a clog, not a burst pipe or anything truly malicious that you can easily approximate the cause to your tenant.  This one feels like a sunk cost to me as ordinary wear and tear.

3) While on appeal legal aid asked for a discovery which delayed another 30 days. Court was pushed back from 10-18-19 to 11-18-19. Legal aid filed for a continuance which pushed the court date to 1-6-2020.

Your tenant has an absolute right to this discovery in civil procedure.

4) In November I hired a 2nd attorney and explained my case and they advised that since she did not pay October and November that is a separate breach and I could evict her again. I paid his fee and we filed the eviction. While we were at court legal aid said there was a pending case for the same parties in a higher Court and requested that my 2nd attempt to be dismissed. The magistrate sided with legal aid. We appealed it.

This is also a correct ruling. This is a lack of subject matter jurisdiction as the same controversy is pending between the same parties in another court.

5) One summary was denied but another was granted for imposing a rent bond. That was signed off by the judge on 12-30-2019 and it was ordered that she pay the bond by 12-27-2019. She never paid it.

5a) I have an order for a rent bond for the month of December 2019 and the tenant did not pay the bond for December and January. Legal aid said that the judge did not have a right to impose the bond and the only option for her is to go to jail if she does not pay and you can't put someone in jail for a civil matter.

She won't go to jail for not paying a rent bond, but she should be divested of possession when she fails to secure the in rem property with the bond pending adjudication.  The bond is a condition of her retaining possession of the property not a court fine.

6) Our unfair debt collector case was heard on 1-6-2020 and the judge heard all of the testimony and awarded the tenant $1,500 in damages and awarded me $7,295 in rent. That only covered rent up to the day of court.

That seems like a reasonable ruling.  You both did things that were incorrect and there should be a set-off.  The lost-rent through eviction should be done with either an amended judgment or should have been prospectively requested when you calculated her out day.

7) Legal aid said that I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession.

Well, you didn't demand possession.  Why should the judge award you possession in a case in which you didn't ask for it?

___

You might have hired several lawyers, but whoever worked on this case did a terrible job.  I think if I treated my clients like this, I would get a bar complaint.

It also sounds like you filed your own complaint.  Whenever my client wants to file the complaint herself, I know the case is going to be difficult because the complaint is the only "magic words" document in law.  If you didn't use the right words, you can't be given the thing you want.  I'm sorry to be so harsh with you, but this seems like you're furious at your tenant for asserting her rights as a party to litigation, and that approach will get you nowhere.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Ronan DonnellyPro Member
    Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2012 · 332 posts · 385 votes
    6y

    Hi @Account Closed, your case is certainly one of the worst examples I have seen on how individual tenants can take money off small business owners like yourself with what appears to be impunity. Whilst you continue to pursue the legal options available to you, and incur further expense, have you considered offering this individual a lump sum to leave I.e. “Cash for Keys”? Although this options feels totally wrong you have to consider what the financial cost of continuing to have the individual in your home. Good luck!

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6y

    Wow this really sux and I am sorry for all the trouble you are having.

    Unfortunately I don't have any real advice. If it were me I would try and make this tenant serve jail time for not paying the rent  bond.

    Can the Magistrate not get the tenant out for not paying the rent bond. I would think the magistrate would be upset about this person defying the court ordered bond and order the tenant out immediately.

    Maybe you could go to civil court to have the tenant arrested for defying the court order?

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    Wow this really sux and I am sorry for all the trouble you are having.

    Unfortunately I don't have any real advice. If it were me I would try and make this tenant serve jail time for not paying the rent  bond.

    Can the Magistrate not get the tenant out for not paying the rent bond. I would think the magistrate would be upset about this person defying the court ordered bond and order the tenant out immediately.

    Maybe you could go to civil court to have the tenant arrested for defying the court order?

     My attorney is trying this and based on this I dont think that they can enforce it because you can't put someone in jail for failure to pay rent or at least that is what is being argued. To be honest I believe its pointless if a court order is not enforceable.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    It appears from your post that you need a competent attorney. I am not an attorney, and my comments are just my opinions. It appears to me that some provisions in the lease are/were determined unenforceable. If so, the property manager or attorney that drafted your lease should account for the issues that court determined are in violation of NCGS Chapter 42. 

    Promoting sentencing guidelines for civil actions is beyond my competence, but some of your comments are inconsistent with my interpretation and experience regarding NC statutes. I have seen summary ejectment cases lead to actions against the plaintiff... so I have witnessed in Wake county court similar events that you post about, although I was not the plaintiff. 

    Regarding "The unfortunate part is NC is making people like me sell property or not rent property to lower income people who don't make 3-4 times the rent due to the laws that are set in place. " That's an interesting concept. I'd like to see the NC statutes regarding this requirement. Please post a citation. 

    I am not an attorney and my post should not be construed to be legal advice. 

  • Auburn NY · Member since 2019 · 97 posts · 56 votes
    6y

    Sorry for your problem. I always try to use other means of getting rid of tenants other than courts. For reasons like this, although this is extreme. Is there anyway to pay their first months rent for another apartment once they're vacated? Might not work, but it's a shot in the dark.  

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    It appears from your post that you need a competent attorney. I am not an attorney, and my comments are just my opinions. It appears to me that some provisions in the lease are/were determined unenforceable. If so, the property manager or attorney that drafted your lease should account for the issues that court determined are in violation of NCGS Chapter 42. 

    Promoting sentencing guidelines for civil actions is beyond my competence, but some of your comments are inconsistent with my interpretation and experience regarding NC statutes. I have seen summary ejectment cases lead to actions against the plaintiff... so I have witnessed in Wake county court similar events that you post about, although I was not the plaintiff. 

    Regarding "The unfortunate part is NC is making people like me sell property or not rent property to lower income people who don't make 3-4 times the rent due to the laws that are set in place. " That's an interesting concept. I'd like to see the NC statutes regarding this requirement. Please post a citation. 

    I am not an attorney and my post should not be construed to be legal advice. 

    The standard is most landlords have income requirements and that is usually 3x the rent in income. There is no statute that states that you can lower the standard that most companies require in able to qualify for a rental property. I believe my attorneys are doing what they can and they are following the letter of the law but the judges are not interpreting it this way.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    =================

    Originally posted by @Antoinette Bailey:

    ...tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent... 

    ...I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession...

    ...To date I have spent over $8,000 in legal fees and I still do not have possession...

    ...Tenant used legal aid for services and legal aid has NOT advised their client to pay rent and is doing all they can to keep possession with the defendant...

    =================

    Hi Antoinette,

    Legal Aid seems to have an experienced sharp attorney working on this (in front of 5 different judges). 

    Too bad that box was not checked demanding possession (expensive mistake).

    Hopefully your new attorney can sort this out for you.

    Good Luck!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFtbTcvo6Zs

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Edward L lauckern:

    Sorry for your problem. I always try to use other means of getting rid of tenants other than courts. For reasons like this, although this is extreme. Is there anyway to pay their first months rent for another apartment once they're vacated? Might not work, but it's a shot in the dark.  

    Yikes. I cringe. In NC, the term I've seen regarding this concept is 'self-help' eviction, which (NCGS 42-25.6) is against the public policy of the State of North Carolina. In the context of this post, I would suggest efforts outside of the manners of ejectment under NCGS Article 2A should be avoided. See also NCGS 42-25.9(a) and (c).

    Again: I am not an attorney and my post should not be construed to be legal advice.

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Scott Mac:

    =================

    Originally posted by @Antoinette Bailey:

    ...tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent... 

    ...I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession...

    ...To date I have spent over $8,000 in legal fees and I still do not have possession...

    ...Tenant used legal aid for services and legal aid has NOT advised their client to pay rent and is doing all they can to keep possession with the defendant...

    =================

    Hi Antoinette,

    Legal Aid seems to have an experienced sharp attorney working on this (in front of 5 different judges). 

    Too bad that box was not checked demanding possession (expensive mistake).

    Hopefully your new attorney can sort this out for you.

    Good Luck!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFtbTcvo6Zs

    We checked the box for the 2nd eviction and the judge dismissed it. My attorneys are saying they have NEVER seen anything like this before and it should't take this long to put someone out.

  • Auburn NY · Member since 2019 · 97 posts · 56 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
    Originally posted by @Edward L lauckern:

    Sorry for your problem. I always try to use other means of getting rid of tenants other than courts. For reasons like this, although this is extreme. Is there anyway to pay their first months rent for another apartment once they're vacated? Might not work, but it's a shot in the dark.  

    Yikes. I cringe. In NC, the term I've seen regarding this concept is 'self-help' eviction, which (NCGS 42-25.6) is against the public policy of the State of North Carolina. In the context of this post, I would suggest efforts outside of the manners of ejectment under NCGS Article 2A should be avoided. See also NCGS 42-25.9(a) and (c).

    Again: I am not an attorney and my post should not be construed to be legal advice.

    so would it be considered illegal to accommodate (pay for another apartment first months rent) a current tenant (in writing) to help move from a property which in  their eyes is not worthy of paying rent. Because this is what I'm talking about .. not sure how that would work in your state. (Knock on wood) i have never needed court to get rid if a bad tenant. I have estimated my savings to be around 3 months of rental income because of this. I have consulted a lawyer in my area NY to be sure that it is legal to use these tactics where I am from. Not sure about your area

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Edward in this scenario, with attorneys crawling all over the case, I would just stick to the written word. It's not that alternatives don't exist, but there is a time and a place for every method.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    Wow this really sux and I am sorry for all the trouble you are having.

    Unfortunately I don't have any real advice. If it were me I would try and make this tenant serve jail time for not paying the rent  bond.

    Can the Magistrate not get the tenant out for not paying the rent bond. I would think the magistrate would be upset about this person defying the court ordered bond and order the tenant out immediately.

    Maybe you could go to civil court to have the tenant arrested for defying the court order?

     My attorney is trying this and based on this I dont think that they can enforce it because you can't put someone in jail for failure to pay rent or at least that is what is being argued. To be honest I believe its pointless if a court order is not enforceable.

    You can put someone in jail for contempt of court.

  • Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
    6y

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hi, 

    I am experiencing a horrible issue with evicting my tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent.

    1) I sent an order to evict my tenant for non payment of rent in August 2019 and I asked for my keys since she was consecutively late. When I did serve her she showed up in court with legal aid suing me for being an unfair debt collector by charging over 5% of the rent.

    Landlords are deemed to be debt collectors under some state laws and this seems pretty reasonable as a fine if you ran afoul of those state laws.  The American legal system does not place a moral judgment on those that breach contract, and you're not allowed to treat people like criminals for breaking a contract.

    2) As I was retaining my attorney my tenant destroyed my property after court causing $855 in water damages by using maxi pads and flushing them down the toilet.

    This does not seem a proximate cause.  To show liability, one must show that the actions of the party against whom judgment is sought are the direct and proximate cause of your injury.  $855 in water damages sounds like a clog, not a burst pipe or anything truly malicious that you can easily approximate the cause to your tenant.  This one feels like a sunk cost to me as ordinary wear and tear.

    3) While on appeal legal aid asked for a discovery which delayed another 30 days. Court was pushed back from 10-18-19 to 11-18-19. Legal aid filed for a continuance which pushed the court date to 1-6-2020.

    Your tenant has an absolute right to this discovery in civil procedure.

    4) In November I hired a 2nd attorney and explained my case and they advised that since she did not pay October and November that is a separate breach and I could evict her again. I paid his fee and we filed the eviction. While we were at court legal aid said there was a pending case for the same parties in a higher Court and requested that my 2nd attempt to be dismissed. The magistrate sided with legal aid. We appealed it.

    This is also a correct ruling. This is a lack of subject matter jurisdiction as the same controversy is pending between the same parties in another court.

    5) One summary was denied but another was granted for imposing a rent bond. That was signed off by the judge on 12-30-2019 and it was ordered that she pay the bond by 12-27-2019. She never paid it.

    5a) I have an order for a rent bond for the month of December 2019 and the tenant did not pay the bond for December and January. Legal aid said that the judge did not have a right to impose the bond and the only option for her is to go to jail if she does not pay and you can't put someone in jail for a civil matter.

    She won't go to jail for not paying a rent bond, but she should be divested of possession when she fails to secure the in rem property with the bond pending adjudication.  The bond is a condition of her retaining possession of the property not a court fine.

    6) Our unfair debt collector case was heard on 1-6-2020 and the judge heard all of the testimony and awarded the tenant $1,500 in damages and awarded me $7,295 in rent. That only covered rent up to the day of court.

    That seems like a reasonable ruling.  You both did things that were incorrect and there should be a set-off.  The lost-rent through eviction should be done with either an amended judgment or should have been prospectively requested when you calculated her out day.

    7) Legal aid said that I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession.

    Well, you didn't demand possession.  Why should the judge award you possession in a case in which you didn't ask for it?

    ___

    You might have hired several lawyers, but whoever worked on this case did a terrible job.  I think if I treated my clients like this, I would get a bar complaint.

    It also sounds like you filed your own complaint.  Whenever my client wants to file the complaint herself, I know the case is going to be difficult because the complaint is the only "magic words" document in law.  If you didn't use the right words, you can't be given the thing you want.  I'm sorry to be so harsh with you, but this seems like you're furious at your tenant for asserting her rights as a party to litigation, and that approach will get you nowhere.

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin Abdilla:

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hi, 

    I am experiencing a horrible issue with evicting my tenant who refuses to pay rent and has not paid rent in almost 7 months and used legal aid to withhold rent.

    1) I sent an order to evict my tenant for non payment of rent in August 2019 and I asked for my keys since she was consecutively late. When I did serve her she showed up in court with legal aid suing me for being an unfair debt collector by charging over 5% of the rent.

    Landlords are deemed to be debt collectors under some state laws and this seems pretty reasonable as a fine if you ran afoul of those state laws.  The American legal system does not place a moral judgment on those that breach contract, and you're not allowed to treat people like criminals for breaking a contract.

    2) As I was retaining my attorney my tenant destroyed my property after court causing $855 in water damages by using maxi pads and flushing them down the toilet.

    This does not seem a proximate cause.  To show liability, one must show that the actions of the party against whom judgment is sought are the direct and proximate cause of your injury.  $855 in water damages sounds like a clog, not a burst pipe or anything truly malicious that you can easily approximate the cause to your tenant.  This one feels like a sunk cost to me as ordinary wear and tear.

    3) While on appeal legal aid asked for a discovery which delayed another 30 days. Court was pushed back from 10-18-19 to 11-18-19. Legal aid filed for a continuance which pushed the court date to 1-6-2020.

    Your tenant has an absolute right to this discovery in civil procedure.

    4) In November I hired a 2nd attorney and explained my case and they advised that since she did not pay October and November that is a separate breach and I could evict her again. I paid his fee and we filed the eviction. While we were at court legal aid said there was a pending case for the same parties in a higher Court and requested that my 2nd attempt to be dismissed. The magistrate sided with legal aid. We appealed it.

    This is also a correct ruling. This is a lack of subject matter jurisdiction as the same controversy is pending between the same parties in another court.

    5) One summary was denied but another was granted for imposing a rent bond. That was signed off by the judge on 12-30-2019 and it was ordered that she pay the bond by 12-27-2019. She never paid it.

    5a) I have an order for a rent bond for the month of December 2019 and the tenant did not pay the bond for December and January. Legal aid said that the judge did not have a right to impose the bond and the only option for her is to go to jail if she does not pay and you can't put someone in jail for a civil matter.

    She won't go to jail for not paying a rent bond, but she should be divested of possession when she fails to secure the in rem property with the bond pending adjudication.  The bond is a condition of her retaining possession of the property not a court fine.

    6) Our unfair debt collector case was heard on 1-6-2020 and the judge heard all of the testimony and awarded the tenant $1,500 in damages and awarded me $7,295 in rent. That only covered rent up to the day of court.

    That seems like a reasonable ruling.  You both did things that were incorrect and there should be a set-off.  The lost-rent through eviction should be done with either an amended judgment or should have been prospectively requested when you calculated her out day.

    7) Legal aid said that I am not entitled to possession because I did not check the box that stated I was demanding possession so the judge sided with legal aid and did not grant me possession.

    Well, you didn't demand possession.  Why should the judge award you possession in a case in which you didn't ask for it?

    ___

    You might have hired several lawyers, but whoever worked on this case did a terrible job.  I think if I treated my clients like this, I would get a bar complaint.

    It also sounds like you filed your own complaint.  Whenever my client wants to file the complaint herself, I know the case is going to be difficult because the complaint is the only "magic words" document in law.  If you didn't use the right words, you can't be given the thing you want.  I'm sorry to be so harsh with you, but this seems like you're furious at your tenant for asserting her rights as a party to litigation, and that approach will get you nowhere.

    When we filed a 2nd ejectment I demanded possession and this was dismissed. It went to the same judge twice and now the judge wants to hear it a 3rd time and I do not know why. I demanded possession for my two ejectments and they said that I did not check a box and was not entitled to the 1st one and the box was checked the 2nd time.

  • Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
    6y

    @Antoinette Bailey it sounds like your second ejectment was the dismissed one and your first is the one that’s gone through all this procedure. It seems to me that the first action controls these proceedings. I would say the right thing to do is to file an amended complaint but perhaps there is some other rule in North Carolina I’m not privy to

  • Calvin OzanickBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Janesville, WI · Member since 2017 · 707 posts · 297 votes
    6y

    I have been a part of these evictions which seem like they never end. Sometimes, taking the short term loss to just get past it is the way to go. It hurts, but in the end, you are free to move on and protect yourself from these situations going forward. 

    Wisconsin Property Managers4.7412 Reviews
  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Justin Abdilla Your point-by-point is consistent with what I thought from reading the original post. The key, IMO, in success in eviction court for the plaintiff is having a well drafted and property executed lease and properly filing forms. From a post I did several years ago, "And put your desire for possession AND court costs in the Description part of your complaint. If you have the new lease, put your 5% court appearance fee in the complaint or it won't attach to the judgement, ..."  

    To the OP, it's a legal proceeding and as I posted back then, "you want to get the details right to avoid having your case continued or, worse, dismissed." 

    I hope everyone in BP Nation can learn from this topic and stay within the wording and intent of the law... from late fees to self-help remedies, to handling tenant abandonment, all the details are in the "standard" (form 410-T) lease paperwork available from your attorney or property manager. They should be able to provide you a blank form. The statutory requirements are in the pages I linked in prior posts. 

    (Sidebar:  IMO the state of Florida has it right in that the similar FL lease forms are freely available for he public use. The NC bar and Realtors should do the same, making 410-T publicly accessible so that the crappy forms found on the Internet that have NC illegal provisions would be less likely to end up in court.)

    If you search online you can find the legitimate 410-T form as well, just make sure you have a recent version. 

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    I did not do a self help eviction. I filed the paperwork and demanded the keys, terminated the lease before I went to court. When I originally went to small claims court I was served in court for the unfair debt collector issue and I appealed it. From there that's when all the stall tactics came into play. I have hired now 3 attorneys. One for the appeal, one for terminated the lease and another one for failing to pay the rent this month. 

  • Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 62 votes
    6y

    Have the city condem her unit becuase of the water damage.  Tell them you are afraid that there is mold in the unit and that the occupant is at health risk.  Obviously consult with a lawyer before you do this to cover your backside becuase it sounds like she will sue you if you do.  Also, petition the financial backers of the legal aid service to drop their support.  Legal aid is there to help people deal with situations in a balanced way.  It is not there to be used for punative reasons.  If you threaten their funding they will drop this person immediately.

  • Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    Let this be a reminder to never invest in tenant friendly states. I just had a tenant evicted for non payment in less than a month in FL and now she has to pay what she owes me. So sorry to read your story. Shameful what the Judges are doing trying to bankrupt business owners. Best of luck.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    I hope everyone in BP Nation can learn from this topic and stay within the wording and intent of the law... from late fees to self-help remedies, to handling tenant abandonment,


    I agree with this totally!  I've handled every eviction myself and have never had a problem with the magistrates.  My leases follow the law to the letter of the law and beyond.  There are enough legal ways to protect my interests that I don't bother trying to get around the law.

     One of the early errors in this eviction was the unfair (according to NC law) late fees.  I often hear landlords saying how they charge extremely high late fees, and running recurrent late fees, and so on.  I tell every landlord who asks that I charge 5% and not a penny more.  That's the law in NC and that's what I stick to.  It's not worth it to try to make another $25-$100 when it can lead to this sort of problem.  Even if the delay was only one month.  I've never seen that issue cause this much grief, but now that I have, it is definitely a cautionary tale for everyone else.

    After hearing about the second mistake in the lease, the OP should immediately review her lease and correct it.  Better yet, have a lawyer (not the Moe, Larry, and Curly trio who are handling this current case) review the lease and make it court-proof.

    Antoinette, I'm sorry you are going through this, but IMO, you brought a lot of this on yourself.  It doesn't matter whether the illegal late fee was an honest mistake or an attempt to gouge, it was wrong.  Just like when the court tells the tenant it doesn't matter if they lost their job or their car broke down, unpaid rent is unpaid rent.  The legal knife cuts both ways and is equally sharp.


    BTW, what county is this in?

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Heisterkamp:

    Have the city condem her unit becuase of the water damage.  Tell them you are afraid that there is mold in the unit and that the occupant is at health risk.  Obviously consult with a lawyer before you do this to cover your backside becuase it sounds like she will sue you if you do.  Also, petition the financial backers of the legal aid service to drop their support.  Legal aid is there to help people deal with situations in a balanced way.  It is not there to be used for punative reasons.  If you threaten their funding they will drop this person immediately.

    You say for the OP to condemn her own property?? What? 

    Michael, I am sure you are trying to be funny. Condemnation is not fun nor funny. In addition, the advice you give would be treated by the judicial system as a retaliatory eviction as specified in NCGS Article 4A. This is bad advice, IMO, but I am not an attorney. The OP has suffered enough.

    NC is a landlord friendly state but the landlords need to follow statutes, have well written and executed lease, and follow summary ejectment judicial protocol. I'm calling it for what it is.

    To the OP, please consider a PM or take some of the (free) landlord education sessions that you can attend at local community colleges or even through the local HA (housing authority) programs. They may be more tenant biased, but the information is factually correct and helpful for tenants and landlords. 

    I expect this is my last post here.

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 20 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Randy E.:
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    I hope everyone in BP Nation can learn from this topic and stay within the wording and intent of the law... from late fees to self-help remedies, to handling tenant abandonment,

    I agree with this totally!  I've handled every eviction myself and have never had a problem with the magistrates.  My leases follow the law to the letter of the law and beyond.  There are enough legal ways to protect my interests that I don't bother trying to get around the law.

     One of the early errors in this eviction was the unfair (according to NC law) late fees.  I often hear landlords saying how they charge extremely high late fees, and running recurrent late fees, and so on.  I tell every landlord who asks that I charge 5% and not a penny more.  That's the law in NC and that's what I stick to.  It's not worth it to try to make another $25-$100 when it can lead to this sort of problem.  Even if the delay was only one month.  I've never seen that issue cause this much grief, but now that I have, it is definitely a cautionary tale for everyone else.

    After hearing about the second mistake in the lease, the OP should immediately review her lease and correct it.  Better yet, have a lawyer (not the Moe, Larry, and Curly trio who are handling this current case) review the lease and make it court-proof.

    Antoinette, I'm sorry you are going through this, but IMO, you brought a lot of this on yourself.  It doesn't matter whether the illegal late fee was an honest mistake or an attempt to gouge, it was wrong.  Just like when the court tells the tenant it doesn't matter if they lost their job or their car broke down, unpaid rent is unpaid rent.  The legal knife cuts both ways and is equally sharp.


    BTW, what county is this in?

     To be clear I charged the 5% fee and was fined because it was written incorrectly in the lease. This is in Mecklenburg county. This still doesn't negate the fact that she still refuses to pay rent and hasn't paid in months and I'm told I have to file another ejection to gain possession. 

  • Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
    Originally posted by @Michael Heisterkamp:

    Have the city condem her unit becuase of the water damage.  Tell them you are afraid that there is mold in the unit and that the occupant is at health risk.  Obviously consult with a lawyer before you do this to cover your backside becuase it sounds like she will sue you if you do.  Also, petition the financial backers of the legal aid service to drop their support.  Legal aid is there to help people deal with situations in a balanced way.  It is not there to be used for punative reasons.  If you threaten their funding they will drop this person immediately.

    You say for the OP to condemn her own property?? What? 

    Michael, I am sure you are trying to be funny. Condemnation is not fun nor funny. In addition, the advice you give would be treated by the judicial system as a retaliatory eviction as specified in NCGS Article 4A. This is bad advice, IMO, but I am not an attorney. The OP has suffered enough.

    NC is a landlord friendly state but the landlords need to follow statutes, have well written and executed lease, and follow summary ejectment judicial protocol. I'm calling it for what it is.

    To the OP, please consider a PM or take some of the (free) landlord education sessions that you can attend at local community colleges or even through the local HA (housing authority) programs. They may be more tenant biased, but the information is factually correct and helpful for tenants and landlords. 

    I expect this is my last post here.

    Seconding this, it's not just a retaliatory eviction, this is the type of thing for which you would be liable for punitive damages.  When you try to circumvent a court to prevent someone from raising their defenses, you can face 9-fold liability for the damages you've caused because Courts REALLY hate it when you take their jurisdiction away from them.  I am a lawyer, and academically I am telling you do not do this.  If my client in IL tried to do this, I would resign from the case.  Simply awful advice.

    Reach out to the local real estate bar for the Mecklenberg County Bar Association and get a referral.  I called them on Monday and they were phenomenally helpful for a matter I had to work on.  I'm sure they'll point you in the direction of an experienced attorney who can help here.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Antoinette Bailey I own rental property in NC and I evicted a tenant last year. Entire process (from first filing to sheriff showing up) took 6 weeks. I did not use an attorney, my PM did it themselves, (as they have been for 45 years).

    I would suggest not just hiring another attorney or hire one that you don’t pay until this matter is resolved. I’m not sure what type of attorneys you’re using but they aren’t very good at their job..NC is pretty landlord friendly unless there’s something about your county specifically I’m missing

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