Should Landlord Pay? Moving out tenants due to water leak.

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Should Landlord Pay? Moving out tenants due to water leak.

Brad Davis
Real Estate Consultant · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 1 vote

I have a friend from my church who has suffered both financially and in her marriage relationship because they had to move from their apartment to a new apartment IN THE SAME COMPLEX. 

Their old apartment had reoccurring water leaker coming from the roof. Their landlord said that they could move to a different apartment within the same property. 

Question. Shouldn't the landlord pay for the moving expense since they are at fault?

I told them that I would help them out if it happened again, since I am a landlord, real estate agent and investor. They told me that they didn't want to upset the Landlord because they feared retaliation. This is how things operated in their home country of Jamaica. Do people have success in having a successful negotiation between landlord and tenant in these situations?

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Max T.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

What moving expenses are there if they are moving down the hall?

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  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    What moving expenses are there if they are moving down the hall?

    4Reply
  • Larry Alexander
    Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2019 · 158 posts · 117 votes
    6y

    The landlord's mitigating the problem is what would be expected. Did the landlord promptly address the issue?

    If the landlord didn't have an empty unit to move them to, they would likely be moved into a hotel while the leak is being fixed. The landlord would then pay for the cost of the hotel.

    I don't see compensable damages here.  Am I blind? Now if the landlord climbed up on the roof and drilled a hole...

    1Reply
  • Brad Davis
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Max T. They live in a 225 door property with the unit being in a different building on the other side of the property. Some 500 yards away.

    They incurred expenses from: buying boxes and packaging materials, renting a Uhaul truck as well as utility disconnect fees.

    0Reply
  • Kenny Dahill
    Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis, in USA the landlord/PM would be held accountable for repairing the leak quickly.  Or, provide accommodating housing either during the repairs or as a permanent replacement.

    Since this is in Jamaica, their real estate laws could vary.  They should have asked for the repairs to be made, then stay somewhere else for a few days.

    0Reply
  • Brad Davis
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Kenny Dahill from my understanding the Landlord attempted to fix the leak 3-4 times before suggesting to move them to another unit. 

    And to be clear Kenny, this situation is not taking place in Jamaica. They are from there originally, and I was providing context as to why they were fearful about asking to have their moving expenses covered since they feared retaliation, which occurs routinely in Jamaica. 

    But just so I understand your position...No you do not believe the landlord should have paid for moving expenses. Am I correct?

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  • Kenny Dahill
    Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis, ah!  Makes more sense.

    Landlord is responsible.  Unless it is tenant-caused which this is highly unlikely to be.

    Educate them about their tenant rights.  The landlord should be given an opportunity to correct, which they tried.  The landlord should be held responsible for finding them equal and accommodating housing.

    However if I'm the landlord, I would want their moving expenses to be fair and reasonable.  Is it reasonable to buy a UHaul for 500 yards?  Questionable.  Especially because large sites like that have access to work trucks.  A pickup truck would definitely have sufficed.

    I say push the PM/LL to pay for the expenses.  Read the local regulations and put the burden on them.  Never hurts to try.

    0Reply
  • Brad Davis
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Larry Alexander the landlord has been doing the "right" thing per say. They did try a remedy the water leak, unfortunately it was creating a mold and unsafe conditions for tenants.

    I guess my question gets more into morality of the situation. These are people that do not want to use section 8 but are poor and are working class people. Landlords don't realize (or don't care) that $300 for moving expenses is a big deal for some of their tenants. 

    0Reply
  • Brad Davis
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Kenny Dahill Thanks Kenny for that reply. I agree it can't hurt to ask.

    0Reply
  • Kenny Dahill
    Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis, regarding your prior comment to Flash.  I don't think it's the landlord's responsibility to understand a tenants financial well-being for these type of expenses.  Granted I think the landlord should cover the expense, but that has nothing to do with the financial status of the tenants.  That is a general statement.

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    i would assume being it’s Jamaica, that the tenant landlord laws are akin to the wild west where anything goes with loose scrutiny especially for a wealthy business owner . Probably their best bet is to just deal with the inconvenience and pay the small moving fee - or find a new apartment ran by a more professional operation .

    0Reply
  • Nick Rutkowski
    Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis

    I think your friends are done fairly. The landlord addressed their problem and found a solution. If your friends are moving in the same complex then how much money are they spending to move? Probably the cost of some

    pizzas and beer for their friends and family.

    If I was the landlord, I’d do the same thing for my tenants.

    0Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Typically people box things up so they don't get damaged in a long trip via uhaul or moving van.  I think the landlord is being more than fair here, by rehoming them in another unit so proper repairs can be made when them out of harm's way.  

    Tell your friends to go to the local grocery store and ask in the produce department, where they can get lots of free boxes.  Tell them to pack up their things, place them into the trunk/back seat of their car, and drive 200 yards across the complex.  Empty the boxes in their new apartment, rinse and repeat until finished.  Leverage a friend with a pickup truck for the large furniture.  Done.

    This falls into the "life happens" category.  Not every inconvenience is someone else's fault.

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis I think it would be reasonable for the landlord to reimburse the cost of boxes, moving truck and utility fees. They were unable to fix a problem and the unit was unsafe to occupy. 

    As far as landlord retaliation, it would be illegal to retaliate simply because they asked for reimbursement. That being said, some landlords will retaliate. There are hot head landlords who think they can treat tenants like dirt and violate the law. I would argue if this is one of those types of landlords, they should find a new apartment complex to live in. 

    2Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis

    I would help with moving costs. But if their marriage suffered because they had to move 500 yards, there were problems to begin with. A good marriage won’t fall apart because of moving 500 yards.

    4Reply
  • Jon A.
    Asheville, NC · Member since 2017 · 385 posts · 274 votes
    6y

    Shouldn't the tenants renters insurance cover these costs? As long as the landlord has acted according to local laws, which it sounds like they have. 

    2Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Brad Davis

    I would help with moving costs. But if their marriage suffered because they had to move 500 yards, there were problems to begin with. A good marriage won’t fall apart because of moving 500 yards.

    This is the same thing I was thinking. That sounds beyond the absurd to me. When someone tells me something absurd like that I pretty much stop hearing everything else. 

    Other thoughts, all of which sound contradictory and disjointed:

    1. I think the LL was acting responsibly attempting to fix the problem.

    2. What kind of water problem can't be fixed on the first or second try in an apartment?

    3. I think $300 sounds unreasonable to me in moving expenses to move across the complex, unless they hired people to move their heavy stuff. A small Uhaul truck goes for $25 per day. Most of their stuff should have been able to be carried in a few totes, how much stuff could you have in an apartment?

    4. I think a reasonable landlord would cover $300 nevertheless because they could have hired someone to move the couch and other heavy stuff; the tenant is under no obligation to move their own stuff. 

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  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    I think the landlord should be responsible for the moving expenses here. Landlord signed a lease to provide housing in Unit X of Building X. He failed to live up to his contractual obligations. He is making it right, but in the meantime, the other party is incurring damages, due solely to landlord's inability to live up to his end. That's not legal advice as I'm not a lawyer, but I think the situation is pretty clear cut. The issue I see is that your friends have already incurred these expenses without giving the landlord the ability to mitigate his losses, nor did they get approval for any of the costs beforehand. If the property management was asked in advance, they likely would have loaned you one or two people to drive the property to the new unit. I think the truck rental fee is not a "reasonable" cost in the situation. If this was taken to the extreme, would you have expected them to reimburse you for a full moving crew from a professional moving company? Likely not. I would submit all receipts, and request reimbursement. I believe the utility fees should 100% be reimbursed. The boxes and any other supplies should be reimbursed. The truck, I believe is iffy, and I would honestly be happy if they offer to reimburse half or part. I wouldn't expect that to be fully reimbursed.
    1Reply
  • Ryan Proffit
    Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad Davis:

    I have a friend from my church who has suffered both financially and in her marriage relationship because they had to move from their apartment to a new apartment IN THE SAME COMPLEX. 

    Their old apartment had reoccurring water leaker coming from the roof. Their landlord said that they could move to a different apartment within the same property. 

    Question. Shouldn't the landlord pay for the moving expense since they are at fault?

    I told them that I would help them out if it happened again, since I am a landlord, real estate agent and investor. They told me that they didn't want to upset the Landlord because they feared retaliation. This is how things operated in their home country of Jamaica. Do people have success in having a successful negotiation between landlord and tenant in these situations?

    Just to be clear, have they asked the landlord for help?  It seems they have not, maybe I am wrong.  As far as the marriage problems, they will have to go to counseling for that.  Surely if MIL members can survive marriages moving every two years, they will hopefully be able to work through it.  I have been in some decent arguments the 3 times I have moved with my wife though.  Best of luck to them.  

    0Reply
  • Ola Dantis
    Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis Honestly Brad, as I was reading this I was thinking, it wasn't the Landlord's fault the roof was leaking.

    And, more importantly, if they are suffering in their marriage or relationship over a leaking roof and having to move 500 yards, then they a new marriage counsellor. 

    As for the boxes and other moving expenses, the best resolution is to ask the landlord for it. Being from Jamaica doesn't mean anything, I'm also an immigrant here. This is America at the end of the day, thankfully. 

    1Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Did they HAVE to move in order to fix the issue with the roof? In other words was it going to be a real PITA for the landlord to do the necessary repairs with a tenant in there....or a huge inconvenience for the tenant that the landlord didn't want to inflict.... Or was it an OPTIONAL move, offered but not required by the landlord? If its a HAVE to move, then the landlord would have to incur hotel costs for the tenant during the repair....so pay the move and be done with it....cheaper for the landlord. If its an OPTIONAL move by the tenant, then its on them... they made the choice and also decided to drop $$ on buying boxes and renting a van, when there are cheaper ways to move stuff 500 yards The big hurdle is its AFTER the move that the tenant now wants to talk $$. If the tenant came to me and discussed moving costs BEFORE, I probably would have gotten a few of my workers or friends and a pick up truck and helped them move....not a big deal. But spend $$ and then try and hit me for the $$, I would have a harder time saying YES This is what I would propose at this stage......give me all the receipts of actual cost incurred and I'll agree to pay half of it. If I basically told them they HAVE to move, I'd pay the $300 and move on with my life.....
    0Reply
  • Ralph R.
    Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Brad Davis. Morality is not part of the equation here. You cannot legislate morality nor can you write it into a contract. The land lord has legal obligations here, and those obligations become the legal expectations of the tenant. Morals dictate if the tenants asked for help moving (truck etc) he would help them. If he asked them to move Legally he has to pay for it or provide a truck. If he offered the apartment and they chose to move he’s off the hook legally. Morally he should still help them. The marital problems are their responsibility not his. RR

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    If they moved within the same complex, moving costs should be minimal.  At most, they'd need to rent a moving truck, but they could have invited a bunch of friends to help move.  When I move, I get free boxes from the grocery store.  

    They should ask their landlord if there is any possibility for them to cover some of the costs associated with transferring utilities as the landlord might not have thought of that expense.

    I can't see how this would have affected their marriage other than a bit of stress with the move.

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