Advice on getting month to month hoarder tenant out quickly?

Question

We are about to close on a duplex in Alabama that will need a full renovation. One of the sides is unoccupied with fire damage, the other side has month to month hoarder tenants... two sisters. Right now they are being very cooperative. I believe they know what's going on because they have been letting contractors into their unit for the past two weeks (so they can get me bids). However, I know once I deliver the 30 day notice to vacate, they will be very overwhelmed because they just have so much stuff everywhere (they are even storing some of it in the burned out other unit). They are also paying incredibly low rent so it won't be easy for them to move quickly with their budget. I would rather incentivise and/or help them move vs. go through an eviction process as this rehab needs to get started asap (the building is really inhabitable & unsafe in my opinion). Any tried and true methods y'all have used to help a tenant like this move out quickly and peacefully?

On another note... because one of the sides has fire damage, we are needing to get a builder's insurance policy on the house and they are telling us that no construction can begin until the tenants are out. Again, the building is unsafe and this needs to start right away. Am I misunderstanding what they are telling me? It seems weird that they wouldn't want us to start improving the building right away when it's actually dangerous for the tenants. And I'm not sure we will be able to get a landlord policy to protect our liability with the tenant AND builders policy at the same time based on what they are telling us (I need to call back again this morning when they open).

Thanks in advance! This is going to be quite an adventure!

Jonathan Greene · Answer

@Julie Hill with hoarder tenants I would call for a fire department check for fire safety. Usually, they will fail and be forced to modify. Similar to what someone said above about getting it condemned although that may slow your construction time. Cash for keys works, but much harder for hoarders. Remember that hoarding is a psychological disorder and usually their attachment to the stuff leaves them attached to the unit. It's very hard to break it for them, that's why municipal intervention is best and almost always their unit will be a fire hazard with all the stuff, especially if they hoard in the kitchen area. Good luck!

Kevin Sobilo · Answer

@Julie Hill, why not discuss it with them even before they need to receive the 30 day notice. They may have an idea of what will happen, but that just gives them a sense of doom and gloom waiting for the hammer to drop.

I would discuss it with them, let them know what is coming. I would ask if they would like some assistance. If they have lots of junk, I would offer to get a dumpster and hire 2 laborers for a day to haul things out to it. This way they can begin to purge unwanted items even before they need to move.

Also, if you need to do demo on the unit next door, perhaps you can do some cleanout and demo there as well and use a larger dumpster for both purposes.

Pat L. · Answer

"...Again, the building is unsafe and this needs to start right away...."

We had one like this & we had the city condemn it giving them 30 days to vacate. We were arms length & the woman left without contesting it; the clean up was a chore but worth it. We had to finish the rehab get an OP & we moved on.

Justin R. · Answer

As @Anthony Wick said, best to have the building delivered vacant. No always possible.

"Having a lot of stuff" that has accumulated over the years is very different than true hoarding. In the first case, the tenant may be happy to know ahead of time and an offer of a dumpster or donation truck will be a relief. In the second case, those two offers will be extremely stressful.

True hoarders see value in every possession they have, often valuing their stuff more than own health/safety/comfort. The best trick I know of is to offer to pay for X months of a storage space. Once their stuff is safe, they'll have a much easier time moving on.

I've had to handle true hoarding in one of my rentals - it's an objectively sad condition. Good luck.

Anthony Wick · Answer

@Julie Hill

I have seen various versions of these types of things every single week in BP. I never understand why buyers make these problems their problems. Here’s what I did on my last purchase. I wrote in the Purchase Agreement that unit was to be delivered and clean at close. The sellers headache remained their headache. It generally takes 30-45 days to close, so seller can give notice and make sure unit is empty.

Tarl Yarber · Answer

@Julie Hill

This sounds like an awesome deal, my favorite kind actually, congrats!

That said, I have had amazing experiences with cash for keys and for sure financially motivating tenants to move out. The key is to have discussions with them, be up front with what is going on and then to have a time line for financial incentives, PLUS get it all in writing and signed.

For example, we just bought an occupied messed up property in Tacoma WA. Prior to purchase we had the month to month tenants sign a new TERM lease that expired at a certain time. However, within the lease we set financial incentives for if they were to vacate the property early, and we gave them a small money bonus for just signing the lease to begin with.

Here is an example from this specific house. Their current rent is $950/m from previous landlord. We paid them $200 for signing the new lease. The new TERM lease is for 30 days. After the term is over, we do not have to go through the very long eviction process since the lease does not renew month to month. We can go straight to the courts and have them out in a matter of 2 weeks tops in our area because of this. The key is, they signed a TERM lease (i keep writing that so that the other BP contributors dont write about "giving notice", this is their notice and they signed it). In the lease, we also gave a $750 incentive if they are out within 2 weeks of signing. Or they get $250 within 3weeks, and NOTHING if they move out at end of the term. At this point, the tenants are on track to be out within the 2 weeks. Im happy to pay the $750, its pretty much the rent we collected already and costs me nothing, but it saves me on time and holding costs AND more importantly, the headache of an eviction.

This is just one example. I have also had great experiences with hoarders by paying for movers, giving them something to sign that says they are out in 2 weeks and they get a nice check from me (with a bonus just for signing the document). The doc basically has them waive all their rights to living there after the two weeks, and them accepting the bonus means they agree to it. They dont get the additional money if they are not out. This is pretty much similar to the term lease example mentioned above.

I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, so consult your own legal advice for your specific state. All of my agreements mentioned are written by local WA state attorneys that specialize in this line of work. I would advise you to have the attorneys help you too.

Hope this helps.

Account Closed · Answer

@Julie Hill

I think a very open conversation with these tenants is going to be the way to do it. First, though, I would make sure you understand the legality of your situation as the landlord with tenants living in a property that may be deemed unsuitable. I can't imagine too many insurance providers are going to want to provide you with liability insurance with such a high liability risk.

I would try to get those tenants out of there ASAP if you might be at legal risk. You don't want anyone getting hurt either. If they don't leave voluntarily and don't leave with some cash for keys you might even be able to get the city to remove them from the unit (but perhaps at your expense). This may not be a bad idea either.

Julie Hill · Answer

@Anthony Wick this is a wholesale deal and we tried to have that in the contract but they denied. The deal is too good to pass up so we are willing to deal with it!

James Wise · Answer

Eviction doesn't take that long in Alabama. No reason you need to try to artificially move this massive reno along. Don't reinvent the wheel here. If you want them out just evict them.

Jonathan Greene · Answer

@Julie Hill I always contact the fire department first to see if they issue fire hazard notices before condemnation. They are all hoops for you as the owner, but as long as it is leased and the tenants are in the unit, it is their responsibility as long as the unit is up to code otherwise. I do believe they can just condemn one unit.

Advice on getting month to month hoarder tenant out quickly?

Advice on getting month to month hoarder tenant out quickly?

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