Rental Properties in struggling Neighborhoods

Rental Properties in struggling Neighborhoods

Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote

Hey everyone,

So I'm relatively new to this expansive universe of flipping, and renting and foreclosures, and sheriff sales but after about 3 years of research and deliberation, I have decided I am finally going through and make an offer on a property in Philadelphia. 

This property would be for the sole purpose of renting (I plan on living at the house for a period of time at first). Aside from great deals I've found in growing neighborhoods, there are obviously cheaper properties in less trendy neighborhoods. 

Now, I've found over 50 properties -foreclosures and for sale by owners, agents, etc.- in Philadelphia that are huge, beautiful, in relatively good condition and very affordable. They mostly tend to be on struggling blocks.

I know Philly well and don't feel uncomfortable in most neighborhoods; however, I am well aware that many people who are either new to the city or not, do. 

So with everything that must be taken into consideration, I'm wondering, if I spend less for a home in better condition on a more distressed block (where home values are either stagnant or slowly increasing) and rent it out for relatively cheaper prices than more developed neighborhoods, would it be harder to rent? Is there less renters in that market? 

Ex: $80,000 - 6 bed, 4 bath at $1,700/month VS $250,000 - 3 bed, 1 bath at $2,100/month (not the actual numbers)

Without considering appreciation value, for my first go at this, for a rental property, does it make sense to go with the less expensive, more expedient property or a property twice or three times more expensive in a more developed neighborhood?

Like I said, I've been researching this for a while and I'm ready to make a move, and my move does not hinge on this exclusively of course, but I am very curious about this aspect of the rental property dynamic.  Any guidance would be appreciated so much!

Thanks everyone!

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Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y

I've gotta go with @Stephen Akindona and @Jimmy O'Connor on this one. As Stephen puts it, I am one of those "rare cases" of a local investor with in-depth experience in this. As Jimmy puts it, "Your maintenance and time equity will be heavily imbalanced." There is nothing about what I'm doing in real estate acquiring, renovating, and running these rentals that is passive in nature. You have to target quality, lasting builds in the better sections of these neighborhoods, you have to renovate cheaply and well (in my case by doing it myself or running supervised crews), you have to have your money resources and reserves in lockstep order, and you have to learn how to vet and manage these tenants. You screw up any of these, your profits are going to seriously suffer.

I am blessed to have placed some extraordinary tenants who have been with me for years. I have also taken some lumps in the past to get to where I am now.

It isn't easy. There are a LOT of skills to master, not just real estate skills, but reasonably steady profits are only possible with lot of hands-on renovation skills. I would not start off in the kind of C/D borderline properties I am describing. I would target the B/C borderline or focus hard on solid C low-crime areas. Sure, the returns are smaller, but at least you have a chance with the learning curve.

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  • Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2013 · 741 posts · 845 votes
    7y

    @Josh Levinsky, this is a great question in that both sides can be vigorously defended as the right path! The answer is very individual, but I can just answer from my experience! In my opinion, I would always advise investors to stay away from the lower income areas. The returns always look much better on paper but are rarely ever actualized. In some rare cases a local investor who has experience with this tenant class and property class can make very good money, but again what I see to be more common is an investor purchasing and either losing money or overwhelming themselves with stress trying to manage the property. I would also definitely stay away from investing in these types of properties from a distance. Where I have seen it work has been investors who are local and self manage! Again just my 2 cents but there is no true right or wrong but it is a fact that the lower income properties will require more strenuous management and oversight.

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Stephen Akindona Thank you so much for your insight! Exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Much appreciated!

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus and Jonesboro GA · Member since 2019 · 72 posts · 56 votes
    7y

    @Josh Levinsky the main objective to invest with rentals is to have positive cash flow , regardless if class A or C neighborhood. I would rather be investing in class C making money than on any type loosing money. You may want to get into an  up and coming areas where prices relative cheap  and the property is not in terrible shape, just to get your feet wet and don’t get overwhelmed .

    If you started 3 years ago when it was  cheaper,  you may already have a couple of properties by now. Just get started big or small as long the property has good cash flow . 

  • Newtown, PA · Member since 2018 · 172 posts · 81 votes
    7y

    I agree with @Dante Feria .  I'm an agent/investor, and all of my multifamilies are in low income areas with a traditionally bad tenant base.  I have had VERY few problems with them over the year-  As long as you vet all of your tenants (credit, criminal history, actually meet them) I find that you should have minimal problems. Also, when problems come up, deal with them immediately.   A small leak can become a major problem if not fixed within a couple weeks.  Just stay on top of everything.  When your buying a place, look at the numbers above everything else.  Some people might disagree with this but especially as the city becomes more competitive, that is what you are going to have to do.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 428 posts · 484 votes
    7y

    @Josh Levinsky this is a pretty layered question and it comes down to a couple important basic questions.

    1) Is it your money or are you borrowing?

    2) Are you managing or hiring a manager?

    3) How "on the fringe" are you comfortable living and is that decision up to you?

    4) What does your strategy value most? Appreciation? Cash flow? Amount of doors?

    For lower income neighborhoods, cashflow with section 8 works amazingly on paper but you NEED to be an expert on managing tenants of that nature. You're maintenance and time equity will be heavily imbalanced. Higher end neighborhoods offer dirt returns but your management TYPICALLY (no such thing as absolutes in REI) is less. Lets follow up in private messenger to see what direction you should go and the legitimate options

  • Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2016 · 860 posts · 324 votes
    7y

    @Jimmy O'Connor

    Jimmy are you still with NWA?

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 428 posts · 484 votes
    7y

    @Mayer M. I am and proud of it!

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    I've gotta go with @Stephen Akindona and @Jimmy O'Connor on this one. As Stephen puts it, I am one of those "rare cases" of a local investor with in-depth experience in this. As Jimmy puts it, "Your maintenance and time equity will be heavily imbalanced." There is nothing about what I'm doing in real estate acquiring, renovating, and running these rentals that is passive in nature. You have to target quality, lasting builds in the better sections of these neighborhoods, you have to renovate cheaply and well (in my case by doing it myself or running supervised crews), you have to have your money resources and reserves in lockstep order, and you have to learn how to vet and manage these tenants. You screw up any of these, your profits are going to seriously suffer.

    I am blessed to have placed some extraordinary tenants who have been with me for years. I have also taken some lumps in the past to get to where I am now.

    It isn't easy. There are a LOT of skills to master, not just real estate skills, but reasonably steady profits are only possible with lot of hands-on renovation skills. I would not start off in the kind of C/D borderline properties I am describing. I would target the B/C borderline or focus hard on solid C low-crime areas. Sure, the returns are smaller, but at least you have a chance with the learning curve.

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 428 posts · 484 votes
    7y

     @Jim K. eloquently put. @Josh Levinsky you should poke Jim's brain. He has a pretty well established presence on these forums and would be one of the better people on this response chain to point you in the right direction.

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 351 posts · 141 votes
    7y

    @Josh Levinsky which neighborhoods are you considering? There’s a ton of new development going on in particular neighborhoods in Philly that some people consider rough or C Class, I.E. Allegheny West. And what is your goal for the property and how long do you plan to keep it?

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