Tricky situation with the landlord-who pays for the toilet?

Question

I rent a condo in WA state. When we rented the condo just recently, we asked the landlord to make some upgrades in the master bathroom (its a 2 bed 2 bath condo) and we offered to split the cost 50/50 (he was reluctant on the overall cost so we agreed to pitch in because we liked the place otherwise). The landlord agreed, said he did not have time to oversee the project so we would have to undertake the project.

One month after the upgrades were complete, the toilet that was installed starts leaking. It is a manufacturing fault and a new toilet needs to be installed. Is it on the tenants to pay for this or is it the landlord's responsibility to fix the toilet since he approved the changes and willingly handed over the upgrade work to the tenants? He was updated on the entire project throughout and asked multiple times if he wants to do any thing differently or speak with the contractor directly. He chose to distance himself while the work was going on.

FYI - it's a wall hung toilet- costed almost $800 to purchase a new one and get it installed initially- manufacturer's warranty doesn't cover the issue. No mistake was made in selection of the toilet, it was just a newer model of the old toilet that was there before, perfectly compatible without going into extensive plumbing.

Marc Winter · Answer

Account Closed,

Sorry, I think this one's on you.  If you couldn't get the manufacturer, distributor or installer to be responsible, why are you trying to get the property owner to cover it?  Of course I see and understand you points on this issue; I just don't agree.

I'm not saying the owner is right--they should NEVER have agreed to let a tenant oversee or perform the the work--that is their bad.

This type of problem is just one of the reasons we do not approve tenant controlled or performed renovation projects or repairs.  Ever.  Period.

Jim K. · Answer

Account Closed

In-wall concealed water carrier system supply?  You can buy a new wall-mounted bowl for under $300 and put it in yourselves. Is an afternoon of work really worth the bad faith you're going to create with your landlord over this one? YOU wanted the changes, YOU were on-site to see the repair through, YOU agreed to "undertake the project," YOU, ultimately, approved the finished installation. You were not equipped to supervise this project in the manner you chose to, but you took the burden on.You're goddamned right the landlord "distanced himself" during the renovation. This kind of thing is why the landlord didn't want to replace a perfectly functional toilet in the first place because you "liked the place otherwise."

Nathan Gesner · Answer

You asked the landlord to make upgrades.

You offered to split the cost.

You agreed to undertake the project.

You took responsibility so take responsibility.

Nick C. · Answer

"we would have to undertake the project."

I think you answered your question right there. It sounds like you took it upon yourself and made it your responsibility. Not that this matters now, but a landlord should never allow a tenant to make repairs. He's lucky a leaky toilet is the only issue he ended up with.

Steve Vaughan · Answer

A tank to bowl leak is common wth new installs.  People pick them up by the tank and use the tank to push it in, move it around, etc.

I have no experience with in-wall toilets, but water and gaskets and fasteners can't be that different.  Ive replaced and maintained dozens of toilets for 16 years now.

Tighten the tank to bowl bolts and or get a new gasket kit.  Ask a plumber to come see it if that doesn't work.  Good luck.

Jim K. · Answer

Account Closed

Keep on thinking about this one. Was it a conventional floor mount with a 12-inch rough-in? So replacing it with a wall-hung for $800 (and that was a cheap installation price) got you, what, an extra square foot of space in a small bathroom? What a total waste of money, and now you want the poor bastard to pay more than he already did to fix the complicated, unconventional installation you wanted.

I do see your point. The toilet leaks, and it's probably leaking raw sewage at the wall, running down to the floor. Can you at least find a real, long-service plumber who has worked on luxury bathroom renovations and wall-hung toilets with in-wall water carrier systems to tell you what you would need to fix the leak? It's probably not particularly complicated.

Scott P. · Answer

Your post says, "It is a manufacturing fault and a new toilet needs to be installed"  Does that mean it is a manufacturing defect?  If so, why wouldn't the manufacturer replace it under warranty?  Why are they refusing? What do they say?

I understand that the warranty may not include labor.

I'm guessing that the the manufacturer says it is not "a manufacturing fault" and but is instead an installation mistake?  If it's an installation mistake, why wouldn't the installer who put it in come back and fix it?

It's possible that the manufacturer or plumber should fix it.  I think I'd need to know more about what their positions are before I'd know my next move.

With that said, I'd think you guys would split the cost 50-50 if there is a cost that the other 2 parties aren't paying.  You both agreed to a split.  The job isn't over yet.  So the costs are not all complete yet.  The only reason it wouldn't be split 50-50 is if it's something you had more responsibility to oversee since you were there and the landlord was not.

Think about this from the landlord's point of view also.  He let a tenant do an upgrade and he may be stuck with water damage or mold for a long time and end up paying way more than half the cost of the upgrade to fix it all because it was not done well for some reason.

Jim K. · Answer

Account Closed

Ravi,Yes,I jumped to conclusions. Wall-hung toilets are unusual in North American residences. Recently, they have become more popular for space savings in small upscale bathrooms, using the very expensive in-wall system I described earlier. Residential properties cannot typically support wall-hung commercial toilets, which are, on the other hand, common.I got started renovating properties in Greece. Wall-mounted toilets are common, especially two-part toilets with the tank further up the wall. This is not something I would expect some stateside plumbing tech working for a drain-cleaning service with no license and minimal experience to service correctly.

Again, installers and service professionals with significant experience with any sort of residential wall-mounted toilet are rare. Whoever did this installation obviously knew less than he should about replacing toilets like these. My money, given your new information, is on a pressure-assisted American Standard. Under no circumstances is replacing an existing residential wall-mount toilet with an $800 pressure-assist toilet "a very basic upgrade."

But you're in luck, if it's not the wall connection and it's the tank/bowl connection. This is what I would do in your situation: turn off the water, flush the toilet. Unscrew the tank. visually verify the rubber seal, recheck for leakage. If that doesn't do it, call, once again, a local, long-service plumber with lots of experience.

And once again, these kinds of complications are exactly why your landlord didn't want to replace a perfectly functional blue toilet with a toilet of a different color or design to satisfy your contemporary sensibilities and/or stylistic yearnings. It's a commode, Ravi. Your deuce won't discriminate.

Account Closed · Answer

@Jim K.

I appreciate your response, however, your jumping to conclusions is unjustified.

The bathroom consisted of vintage mid century blue toilet and vanity. We asked the landlord if he could change it. He understood why we would want to change the mid century bathroom to match the rest of the apartment, he just did not have time to oversee the project.

When we offered to split the bill, he jumped on the opportunity because he was getting a new toilet for his house for half the money and no manual labor really. Nobody forced him to agree to this. We liked the guy so we decided to go out of our way to make this work.

As far as the toilet goes, it was a wall hung toilet to begin with. We had to spend weeks trying to find a toilet that would perfectly fit the previous extinct model to try to avoid any extra plumbing and make it a clean and easy swap.

The "complicated, unconventional installation" was not what we needed. It was right there waiting for us. The toilet leakage is also not raw sewage, its leakage from the gap between the toilet bowl and the tank when the toilet flushes (because of high pressure flush). After several hours of troubleshooting, we know who is at fault but the manufacturer refuses to own it.

Oh and it does not have an in-wall concealed water carrier system. There isn't anything fancy going on here, just a very basic upgrade to get rid of the blue 70s toilet. Hope that addresses some of your doubts and calms you down.

Dennis M. · Answer

I assumed you agreed to the condition of the unit when you signed the lease even with a vintage mid century design toilet sitting in it  .look  If the terd goes down who cares when it was made  bro ? It’s not your home your just renting the place . I can’t hardly believe your landlord agreed to such a silly request .i probably would  have laughed at you   or told you and the wife to go poop in a orange Home Depot bucket if you don’t like my vintage blue toilet

Tricky situation with the landlord-who pays for the toilet?

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