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Updated over 4 years ago, 08/27/2020
Kids upstairs are running around and making noise
I have a two family and just rented out the upstairs to a couple with two young kids. The husband has excellent references and has been paying the rent on time. They want to live there long term and he has even done some improvements to his apartment because they want to make it a home. So far they are great.
My problem is that the downstairs tenant has been complaining that the kids are running up and down all day and he is getting "headaches" from the noise. I mentioned the excessive noise to the upstairs tenant and he said that he would talk to his wife to try to have the kids keep the noise down. I then told the guy downstairs that I spoke to the people upstairs. But really, all I can do is talk to them. My lease has a noise clause but that is between the hours of 10PM and 6AM. This has nothing to do with the noise clause.
Today I get another text from the guy downstairs with a photo of the dining room area that has dust on the furniture, allegedly from the ceiling due to all of the "Banging and running around". I have already spoken to the tenant upstairs and told this to the guy downstairs.
I don't think there is anything more that I can really do.
To be honest, if he wants to move out, i would be ok with that.
Your thoughts and advice????
This issue comes up a lot. In my market, many of the older buildings have hard wood floors. Walking on them amplifies through the floor joists like a drum. I've seen people mitigate by shooting insulation in the ceiling. Or more simply carpet. Certainly you can remind the tenant that their children are making too much noise. As someone else suggested, place children on the first floor units is an idea. The worse thing that will happen is that you will lose a tenant.
The problem with older properties in general is the insulation in the walls has deteriorated from it's original noise level dampening and the floor structure has weakened with age. To fix is cost prohibitive.
Today's apartment buildings are usually built with much better sound control for walls and ceilings although not sound proof.
In some areas there are older apartment communities with ranch style apartments on the main floor and nobody else above you. If the tenant can find an end unit ranch then only sharing one to two walls max. You could still have a noisy neighbor close by regardless.
Nothing in life is perfect people just have to decide on what they can accept as a tolerable condition and what they cannot and have to change. The down stairs tenant it is doubtful they would want to move upstairs especially if they are older in age having to go up and down stairs constantly.
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Oh no!! Kids are being kids. The truth is, whenever anyone moves into an apartment below another they need to consider who the upstairs tenants may be. If the upstairs tenants are good tenants, and aren't doing anything out of the norm for regular living, that's life.
When we moved to Newport Beach, we leased an apartment that was on the lower level. Upstairs was an older gentleman in his 80's and in the middle of the night he would be scooting furniture around. We just got used to it and ignored the noise. Never could figure out why he did it. The next place we moved to, we moved upstairs.
I'd just tell the downstairs tenants that there's nothing you can do about it, and offer to let him out of his lease should he so choose.
- Karen Margrave
@Account Closed This is violation of fair housing rules in the US. Sure, if you have other vacant units or the timing works out great. But you cannot refuse to rent to a family because it is an upstairs unit or refuse to place single people in downstairs units. Best you can do it warn potential tenants before moving in of those situations. Explain it is a consequence of living in apartments and if they know up front they are less likely to complain. Walls are thin, you can hear people next to the same as above you.
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
"This is violation of fair housing rules in the US"
Fully aware of that, same rules apply up here. Personally I don't care, I choose applicants that are the best fit for my units and my existing tenants. No point in choosing someone that is going to be unhappy, make others unhappy or end up getting evicted for making too much noise and disturbing others. Unlike many landlords I am not afraid to operate my business. I do not violate any laws since I always choose the most qualified applicants. Not my problem that young families may not be the most qualified. :)
I choose the best tenant fit not someone the government tells me I must choose.
Originally posted by @Ro Maga:
It sounds like you might need acoustic tiles or something to dampen the footfall vibrations coming from upstairs.
A carpet or other noise-absorbing material might help.
From the perspective of a first-floor tenant, I had a noisy neighbor above me when I first moved in. After he moved out, the landlord installed a carpet (none had existed before) that helped reduce the noise of footsteps and other sounds immensely when the next neighbor moved in.
It's best when stereo speakers are kept off the floor. Speakers on a bare floor can turn the entire ceiling below into a loud speaker (this also happened to me with my original noisy neighbor). Even when subsequent neighbors had their speakers on the carpeted floor, the noise coming through the ceiling was much less (and tolerable).
I keep a supply of noise-reduction ear plugs on hand. These plugs are widely available and marketed as a way to get a good night's sleep. I've had to use them on a few occasions (I'm a light sleeper).
Originally posted by :
How do you address the issue of people walking dogs and letting them poop on the lawn or littering? I've had the problem for years and would like some insight.
My landlord constantly reminds tenants that they have the responsibility to clean up after their pets and charges a $25 fee if caught. I'm not sure how many fees have been assessed, but the grounds are fairly clean.
I had a very similar issue in my building. We tried area rugs in the hallway and living room but my downstairs tenant ended up moving out. If it is an old building like mine, the noise really does transfer much louder than you would think. I agree just try to stay out of it and hopefully we will get better weather soon and the kid can go outside to play. Good luck
I am referring to non-tenants' pets. My particular situation was a corner lot surrounded by multifamily housing with a fire hydrant. When I was living there I asked people to pick it up and got the previous responses I posted about. Eventually I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth confronting people about it. I didn't want someone realizing I lived there and key my truck or leave flaming bags at the door. Chose to look at it as free fertilizer. You can't control irresponsible pet owners.
And absolutely if I allowed pets and witnessed my tenant not cleaning up after a pet or littering you bet I would charge them.
Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:
This issue comes up a lot. In my market, many of the older buildings have hard wood floors. Walking on them amplifies through the floor joists like a drum. I've seen people mitigate by shooting insulation in the ceiling. Or more simply carpet. Certainly you can remind the tenant that their children are making too much noise. As someone else suggested, place children on the first floor units is an idea. The worse thing that will happen is that you will lose a tenant.
That's what we did. We had entirely adults in the building, but you could hear everything from the upstairs tenants in the downstairs apartment. We added cellulose between the floors during a tenant turnover. It wasn't too expensive because we did our own drywall (plaster) patching to seal up the holes used to blow in the cellulose. It helped a lot on this 1914 house. Be sure the knob and tube wiring is gone if it's an old house.
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
"if it wasn't against the law."
It will never be against the law to reject applicants with children. It is against the law to reject applicants because they have children.
A landlord establishes their personal requirements then uses legal screening standards to achieve those goals.
If it's legal it is not discrimination.
Ive had tenants who could hear their neighbor tenants making love. I could hear them too. Very awkard to tell them do it less aggressively .
Originally posted by @Christine Kankowski:
All noise complaints in my opinion are to be handled between tenants always. It could be the same issue if they owner the condos. They need to handle on their own.
Having tenants try to work things out among themselves is a good first step, but sometimes more is necessary when a tenant is irresponsible.
I was advised once to talk to a noisy neighbor before elevating the issue. My neighbor eventually informed me that since he wasn't trying to upset me, it wasn't his problem when I got upset over his noise (which often occurred late at night).
Because the owner was a large corporation and wanted everything thoroughly documented, I then had the challenge of getting independent third-party verification.
It took me awhile to get my ducks in a row and although the apartment manager tried working with my neighbor (through verbal and written warnings), he continued to insist that his noise wasn't his problem. He eventually moved out, which let me cancel my fallback plan of moving out myself if the issue didn't get resolved in a timely manner.
@Missy H. - I found when I have up/down units its worth the extra investment for some sound proofing. Some folks tell me I am crazy for spending the extra money; but to me its worth not having issues and keeps tenants happy. In your case, the downstairs tenant could be an issue.
Here is a company where I have bought material before:
https://www.soundproofcow.com/product-category/sou...
They are great as in you can send in your scenario, and the level of construction you are willing to do and they come back with solutions.
The basic options are remove whole ceiling, go with awesome sound proofing with special caulk, sound proof insulation, then matt between two layers of drywall.
If you ever redo the flooring the in upstairs unit, they have under floor matting that can be added.
If you are not doing a demo, a lot of times you can get away with adding the matting, and then another layer of drywall on the ceiling. That eliminates a lot of the talking, music, kid screaming noise.
Another cheap option would be to buy a hallway runner carpet, and padding for under it and give it to your tenant. This won't eliminate the noise, but if your tenants don't have anything down it can help soften some of the impact noise.
As another poster mentioned, try to avoid putting tenants with kids in upstairs units.
@Thomas S. that sounds discriminatory - how do you tell qualified renters they cannot have a unit because they have children? Why have a multi-bedroom unit on top floor if no kids can live there? You think all situations are going to be couples only or adult roommates? What if a couple you are renting to have a baby or adopt some kids or their sister is on drugs and they have to house nieces/nephews - do you kick them out? Not sure that would fly here in the US. Also, how are they violating their lease? Kids should be able to play and be children between the hours of 6:01 am and 9:59 pm without the cops having to be called. Not sure what kids you know but all the kids I know run, jump and play. The landlord should get better carpet or flooring for the upstairs unit. Switching apartments? IMO that's a ridiculous solution to propose unless you know they are the same size units or if the guy can walk up stairs or that the downstairs guy is not stomping around in his apartment at all hours and maybe that would be a nuisance to someone underneath HIM. Why would you not renew a tenant who is paying their rent and taking care of their apartment on the say-so of the downstairs neighbor? If guy downstairs can't live with kids overhead HE should move. into a 1-floor dwelling with no upstairs neighbors. Very curious how you came up with your rental policies. In your scenario she could have 2 empty units if she's not careful.
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
I always have a iron clad reason, I accept the most qualified.
I have a priority list of requirements. Credit score, can they afford rent, can I collect if they do not pay, do they have a positive attitude, are they likely to follow the rules, will they fit with existing tenants, will they be happy as my tenants.
I never want a tenant that could potentially upset my existing tenants. Placing a young family in a upper unit is not a wise business decision.
My vacancy rates are below average due to my efforts to insure all new tenants are a good fit. If for any reason I believe they may be a bad fit, or high risk, I wait for a more qualified applicant. Other than for obvious reasons (bad credit) most applicants are not rejected until I have the most qualified applicant that fits my requirements.
My priority is in making smart business decisions. I do what is best for my business, myself and my existing tenants. In that order.
Do I discriminate, I have never had any complaints. I have no reason to fear the the housing gestapo.
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
I seriously doubt your morality police are any worse that the regime I operate under. Ontario Canada is the supreme nanny state determined to protect every possible potentially disadvantage individual real or imagined.
I can not believe that in NJ smart landlords can not operate around the system. No way NJ can be unique. Every system has go rounds.
I do not state I will not rent to tiny children upstairs of course...I show upstairs rentals to folks with small children if asked to. I take there applications if asked to. Most potential tenants knowing my" heavy duty noise rules", decide children in upstairs unit will not work. I sometimes offer networking with my fellow landlords with better situations for small children and pets if i have nothing available that will work for them .
However a owner/landlord can make the ultimate decision on who will be renting there units.
I clarify up front in writing(having all adults intial as they read) the rules for cleaning up there own dogs messes. I have rules of no outside dogs, only out while owner at home to monitor there noise level and there safety. I fence high fences to keep pups safe, and other dogs out of my yards!. I only allow inside vetted cats. Outside cats, must be on harness and leash or a small catio provided. In the triplex, I hire a guy to mow , weed, pick up trash ect... Each unit has there own little fenced area for there dogs. In single family homes, the tenant is responsible for all yard maintence... I gear my self towards responsible pet owners in first place. All pets must be fixed, all current shots intially, rabies ect.... quality flea meds monthly ( 9 mo out of year in Indiana), and ask for reciepts till i trust the tenant... Suggest fixes i know of for barking dogs , such as classical music, comfort zone plug ins, thunder shirts... Insulate center walls and ceilings with blow in insulation.... I specialize in multiple pets and restricted breed dog owners and have a very successful waiting list for tenants.... They arent on market for more than a day generally.. I do not charge extra for pets. I do not charge a monthly fee. Kids are harder on rentals, so if your gonna charge these fees , do it for kids too. Most of my houses have pets and a kids too! I use state farm and have no problems with restricted dog issues.... I require my tenants to carry renters insurance with the dogs listed. I require copies of all this imfo i have mentioned yearly. My tenants generally stay for over 2 years,(which is the length of my lease) till they buy there own places. If you spell every thing out up front it does help!..... I have so many applicants Immediately , I to pick the most qualified and matching tenants in multi units to allievate potential problems down the road. I look for pit bull owners ,they are quiet, great dogs. Pets in general cause less damage than children do.... ( 18 years experience). I put in upstairs units, pad and than thick vinyl roll in kitchen and carpet in bedrooms. Living room we did go with pad than wood on floor.(which mightve been a mistake) In all other units , we have either real hard wood, I can redo and tile, which is the cheapest resources we have found for rentals, and great for pet owners.. Carpet isnt cheap, and I dont like it. Id suggest a fence or decorative fence for the lady with the dogs pooing in her yard.. Oh yes we never allow tenants to fix anything in our homes. We do all the work period.. This way we know every inch of our homes. We are very proud of all our homes.
My wife and I are having the same problem. She can't work and we have to have the volume on the television on 28 just to enjoy. Tenants with children should not be allowed to lease an apartment on the top floor. It's not a good idea.
Anybody suggesting about not renting to people with children is suggesting to break the law due to Familial Discrimination. Please be familiar with the rights of people with children lined out by HUD.
