My wife and I are cross-shopping rentals and buying. Leaning more towards renting though. My question is this... We are very meticulous people. We have the nicest looking home on our street, greenest grass, tidiest yard. The inside of our place is pristine. My wife on the other hand loves her cats. In all seriousness our cats have never ripped, torn or damaged anything in our home. They like 99% of household cats use a litter box and have never had an accident outside of their litter box. They don't stink or smell and we've tested this with friends that don't like cats and are sensitive to smells. Unfortunately we are walking away from our beautiful home because it is severely underwater. We would expect to keep a rental in the same pristine condition as our current home and wish to take a long term lease out 3-4 years. The funny thing is we are having a hard time finding a "nice" place to rent that will allow us to bring our two cats. What gives....???? Honestly one toddler does more damage to a home than two cats. Why are renters so reluctant to rent to cats owners? We found a nice home that we would love to rent today but the owner said they have turned numerous potential renters away because of their pets. They are holding out for someone with no pets. Seems like there are fewer people out there without pets. We were even willing to let the owners see how we presently keep our current home as proof we would insist on maintaining their property in similar fashion but they were still strict. I understand why someone would not want to rent to dog owners. Dogs eat wood fencing, the stucco siding on homes, chew up drip lines, dig holes, kill grass when they pee in the yard. Have accidents on rugs and carpeting. But Cats??? Cats are often more meticulous than humans. Just venting but if anyone can help me figure out why landlords are so picky about cats maybe it will help me. Thanks in advance.

Rentals why no cats?

Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

16y

As a landlord it only takes one bad experience with a pet owner. We take pets in most of our rentals but require a substantial deposit. There are many things that can happen. I have seen a stair post destroyed because a tenant allowed their cat to use it as a scratching post. I've had trouble with carpets because of pets, drapes and other issues.

That said, I have found that many pet owners do seem to take of the property. It is the occasional tenants that leave a bad taste and make it hard on the rest.

1 Reply

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

16y

PeePee! Some further reading:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/18091-cat-urine

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/48439-cat-urine-hardwood-floors

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/48302-dealing-with-pet-urine-in-plywood-subfloor

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/32394-cat-pee-in-apartment

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/29131-how-to-remove-the-smell-of-money

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/37751-third-pet

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/39475-profitable-house-problems

6 Reply

Account Closed

OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes

16y

I take pets. I hate to have cats in my rentals.

I have had very little dog damage. I get to meet the dog and see how it is cared for. Adult dogs that are well taken care of do not do damage.

Well cared for cats might do damage, they might not. They tend to use doorways and carpet as scratching posts. A few inches of ruined carpet at the doorway and the entire room of carpet must be replaced.

There is no way to get rid of the smell of cat urine. If the litter box is not kept meticulously clean, the cat will urinate elsewhere, Carpet has to be ripped out, the pad removed, the sub floor deodorized and sealed and new carpet installed.

If a cat sprays on a wall, the baseboard and wall board must be removed and replaced with new.

Cats spray urine outside the house and it stinks. If they get under the house, the entire inside of the house will reek of cat pee. It makes the house impossible to rent.

I can not have the tenant bring the cat over for me to meet it. You can't tell much about a cat, anyway, just by seeing it.

I might take you and your cats if I could go and take a look at your house and see that it is clean and undamaged. I would not take you, however, because you are going through a foreclosure.

So it's possible that the cats aren't your problem.

5 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

PNW - your last statement is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. If we were a prospect tenant I would rather you come out and say you wouldn't rent to me because you don't like my hair color, or the way the planets are aligned etc..

But to deny someone because they are going through a foreclosure is absurd, and largely unethical. I would not want to wish bad karma on you or anyone else that feels similarly, but there might be a day when you cannot be so picky and strict on who you rent to.

Prior to being married I've rented no less than three different apartments, I've personally never had pets prior to my marriage but have always kept my place IMMACULATE and no different that if I owned the property myself. I've always had 100% of my deposit returned to me.

My credit has always been impeccable up until recently dealing with my current home that I am severely upside down in. I've paid ever car loan I've ever had (About 12-13) off free- and clear and never missed a payment or been late on any other bill ever. I probably bring in 8 or more times your measly rent (Just guessing) not even counting my wife's income Not that I would ever rent from you as you sound like the kind of person that only rents to 80+ year old ladies and sucks them dry when they move out because your place now smells like cheap perfume and has to be completely torn down to rid of the smells.

Sheesh.... what does a foreclosure have anything to do with someone renting from you.

In all seriousness you don't need to respond to this post, but something to think about.... in my area all of the "Old Renters" are now home buyers or home owners. The new rental market are people that have had to short sale or foreclose. You might want to open your mind a little before you run out of tenants. Just because someone has a foreclosure on their credit history doesn't mean they are bad people, or going to trash your place.

1 Reply

Bill Patterson

Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes

16y

P NW got a little off topic with his reply. Most people react to a situation according to past experience or research. It sounds like he has had bad experiences with cats (as have many landlords, myself included). It also sounds like he has other issues that would cause him to not rent to a person. Credit history is not a protected area of renting. It is his right as a landlord to deny a tenant for this (or pets) reason.

I'm sure that you have a very good reason for losing your home and that it is a very hard thing for you to do as a responsible person. I have met many people who through no fault of their own, have been or are in your position. My advice is to continue to do the best that you can and you will eventually find a landlord that will welcome your cats as well as tenants that will care for his property. In our area there are many who will. Keep plugging away and I'm sure that you will get your life and financial situation rebuilt! Good luck!
Bill

1 Reply

Mark N.A

Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes

16y

It's a new world out there, Ryan.

The LLs with really nice rentals are raising their standards.

The LLs with crap are lowering them.

Good luck.

1 Reply

Vikram C.

Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

16y

For some reason, I always thought P NW was a "she" and not a "he."

2 Reply

Richard Warren

Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes

16y

Originally posted by Ryan Johnson:

to deny someone because they are going through a foreclosure is absurd, and largely unethical.
Sheesh.... what does a foreclosure have anything to do with someone renting from you.

Absurd? Ridiculous? Unethical? Far from it. If you are being foreclosed you have bad credit and bad credit is a perfectly valid reason to deny a prospective tenant. I not saying you should be, but it is a legally valid reason.

You indicate that you are walking away from your home because it is underwater. Does that mean there is no hardship? If you are walking away just because it is worth less than the amount you willingly paid for the home, times are indeed changing. Iâ€™m amazed at how much attitudes have changed and that it has become perfectly acceptable to walk away because you people donâ€™t feel like paying anymore because the home lost value. Would those same people have given the bank more money because the house went up?

Again, you may have a legitimate reason for losing your home but it is not unethical to deny someone because of bad credit.

:cool:

10 Reply

Jeffrey K.

Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes

16y

You are going through forclosure. That means you didnt pay your bills. I would not rent to you also.

About cats and pets. If you look at rentals (I look at lots), you notice that nice buildings dont allow pets. There is a reason. Many people who live in close quarters with animals are not as clean as us "non-pet oweners." We do not relate to people who choose to have an animal not used for food or work living in our hosue and let it poop in a box you keep in the living room.

I just bought a few buildings and the previous owner allowed pets. The amount of primer I needed to use and the damage was nasty. The quality of tenants were also worse than when cleaned up and rented to non pet owners.

6 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

Richard- I see your point and agree... bad credit is bad credit. PNW specifically said he/she would deny a rental contract based solely on a foreclosure that's my problem.

If He/she would have put in the context of "Ryan unfortunately I could not rent to you simply due to your credit score which is probably going to be low in lieu of a foreclosure I would have thought otherwise.

I know people that have rented a place then walked away. So would you evict your tenant if they had 780 credit score the month they applied for a rental contract with you, but then you latter found out within 3-6 months their credit score is 580 and they walked away from their place. Is that person really going to be all of a sudden a "high risk" just saying.

Seriously I'm not really worried about it, we looked at several places, they've pulled my credit and said Mr. Johnson obviously you pay your bills, we are not going to hang a short sale or foreclosure over your head if you want to rent from us. "After all everyone is in this boat these days" I can't tell you how many property management companies have said this.

The only reason I posted this on this forum was because the places my wife and I have looked at and liked have all said absolutely no pets, we never brought up credit history or anything else.

Also Richard hardship does not just mean someone whom has lost their job or can't afford their home anymore etc.. Hardship can be speculation as well. When I purchased my home in 2007 my plan was to at least get into a home then get married and within five years move to an area with better schools and shopping.

Everyone was telling me in 2006 if I don't buy now I will be priced out of the market. I bought my house, put 30% down cash the rest on a single loan. And immediately the values in my area and the rest of the United stated plummeted, this is all rhetorical.

My point is I was not married at the time and didn't have kids. I'm am now married and we have a 16 month old. The area were my home is has the worst schools and our neighborhood has quite a bit of crime (My truck has been broken into twice) despite the area being a newer development. We are one of 4-5 families original that bought on our street between 2005-2008 when the homes were brand new everyone else has short sold or foreclosed about 20-25 homes +/-.

Our roughly 6-7 year old neighborhood looks like it's 20 years old with all the new rentals and 4-6 empty homes that are vacant.

I'm leaving my property because I don't feel it safe anymore, or that it will ever recover I apologize if this makes you mad or anyone else. There is no motivation to put any more money into my home in terms of upgrades like most people like to because I'm only losing more money from it than gaining any.

To live in these kind of conditions with a wife and toddler is a hardship when you fear for your life at night or wondering if all the tools will be stolen again from your truck that you use to work out of or come home to a house that has been broken into, this happened to my neighbor two months ago.

Say what you will about me and my situation but I'm doing what I have to because nobody else will, and it's the best thing for my "Family" above all. If I could sell my place I would but I can't I've tried. Renting it doesn't pencil because if I get a renter that destroys my home, I will have to put up $$$ that I don't have already to again repair a home that has no value. Just wasting more & more money.....

At this five minutes we are still attempting a second try of short selling the house, if it doesn't work again we are giving them the keys back.

2 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

Jeffery- I get it, in all fairness I'm not really a pet person but my wife is. If it were up to me I wouldn't have any. I'm luck that A) I've got an extremely awesome wife and B) The cats that we have (Two) are super clean, don't smell and have only destroyed their scratching post and not any furniture or the house.

I'm not justifying renting to pet owners, this is a first for me. I'm just curious why and thanks to the responses I see why. Prior to being married I didn't have animals so I didn't know cats spray walls and pee on the floor (Ours are fixed and don't do this) so I couldn't relate to the scenarios given.

Again like I mentioned before, we are in between renting & buying err.... my wife buying so we will probably avoid all this renting discrimination altogether. My wife is approved for a home loan, and we can come up with 20% cash because ewe have been good with our money and lived below our means outside of me making the stupid decision to by my house in '07 so we will see how that goes, but if we decide to rent at least I know what my angle of attack will be based off this info.

1 Reply

Bill Patterson

Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes

16y

Vikram, I had no idea if P NW is a "she" or a "he", since "they" have chosen to use a very anonymous profile. I do check those out to see where a BP member may be coming from when I answer a post. What does this have to do with Ryan's questions anyway?

Ryan came to BP with a fair and legitimate question and he got some good answers. I thought that was the reason BP is here....to give answers and constructive input to members. I think it was a big "jump" to assume that just because he was considering walking away from his home that he would not have the credit rating or ability to pay rent as a tenant or that he had no legitimate reason for doing so. Remember if you break "assume" down......it makes an "***" out of "u" and "me"!

I respect the question that Ryan asked at first and voted for it. I also like the way that Ryan handled his responses to the replies and made a vote for that, too. Welcome to BP, Ryan and I hope to have your input on more topics.
Bill

3 Reply

Tod R.

Investor · Southlake, TX · Member since 2009 · 950 posts · 338 votes

16y

Two things with cats that make a difference. One, are the cats declawed? Two, is it a female that's been spayed? If your cats fall into both of these, then the odds are much better that you won't have any damage.

Unless of course you become overwhelmed with hairballs!!!!

1 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

Thanks Bill- I found this site on accident looking for info of short sale options and as a bonus I found all the info on renting. I lurked for awhile and was impressed with the level of good information and knowledgeable members. Again thanks. and thanks to everyone who provided their input whether constructive or criticism.

Todd- we have a male & female cat with claws. We are not fans of de-clawing a cat. If that cat accidentally escaped into the wild it would no longer be able to defend itself against predators. But yes both have been spayed and neutered. One poster mentioned that a cat scratched up their rental props wood rail or something to that tone. Cats will generally only scratch on fabric, I've never heard of a cat to scratch wood. I again I understand were you all are coming from, I was just mainly fact finding on why people are so strict on this subject.

2 Reply

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

16y

Originally posted by Ryan Johnson:

...

My point is I was not married at the time and didn't have kids. I'm am now married and we have a 16 month old. The area were my home is has the worst schools and our neighborhood has quite a bit of crime (My truck has been broken into twice) despite the area being a newer development. We are one of 4-5 families original that bought on our street between 2005-2008 when the homes were brand new everyone else has short sold or foreclosed about 20-25 homes +/-.

Our roughly 6-7 year old neighborhood looks like it's 20 years old with all the new rentals and 4-6 empty homes that are vacant.

I'm leaving my property because I don't feel it safe anymore, or that it will ever recover I apologize if this makes you mad or anyone else. There is no motivation to put any more money into my home in terms of upgrades like most people like to because I'm only losing more money from it than gaining any.

To live in these kind of conditions with a wife and toddler is a hardship when you fear for your life at night or wondering if all the tools will be stolen again from your truck that you use to work out of or come home to a house that has been broken into, this happened to my neighbor two months ago.

....

Here's something to consider (sorry off-topic from original post, but building on the part being quoted here). As a tenant, you will likely be signing a one-year lease to start your new residency. What would occur should your new residence turn out to be in a neighborhood that starts to become just like what you describe here? Based on your history of leaving your mortgage behind, one would venture to say that you would leave your lease behind too - regardless of whether you can afford the payments or not.

So a landlord would have good reason to consider you a riskier applicant. "Failure to pay for housing" is another consideration that landlords use a rejection criteria - doesn't just have to be "was evicted".

2 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

Steve- Again I see what you mean, but in all honestly if I were renting a place and the neighborhood turned out to be bad. I could sit out a year lease with no other obligation and find another.

When you are stuck with a mortgage and a home that may take 7-10 years to rebound if at all ever. You must do what you have to do if you can't sell the place.

1 Reply

Vikram C.

Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

16y

Ryan, I believe the cat issue has been adequately addressed in the previous posts.

I am not sure how much of a "foreclosure" issue you are facing because you did not refer to that being a problem in your initial post. But P NW did provide useful information that, from the perspective of many landlords, your defaulting on your home loan would be an issue.

I do see your perspective on why you have stopped paying. It is the same perspective that is shared by millions of people in the country today. In fact, some studies show that the #1 predictor of foreclosures is the percentage by which a property is upside down and not the owner's financial condition - apparently foreclosure rates start climbing steeply when properties are 25% or more upside down. So your logic is very clear and we all understand it.

But I would like you to also be able to see another perspective. And that is, for many of us, our "word" is an important thing. When we make a deal, we agree to abide by the terms of that deal regardless of the outcome. If our property price went up, we would not share the profits with the lender. Similarly, if our property price collapsed, we would not expect the lender to take the loss. This is simply the way many of our are built and I, personally, cannot imagine doing things any other way.

But I know that times are changing and your way of thinking is increasingly prevalent. The problem that some of us have with this new way of thinking is that we no longer know how to evaluate a person. If a person walks away from his olbigations when it is convenient for him on one occassion, we are no longer sure whether he would do it again on a different occassion. That's what causes us to be afraid to do business with such people.

I hope you do not take my post as personal criticism. I am more disappointed with the overall trend in society towards strategic breaks of promises than towards your individual decision. And I am merely trying to explain to you how many others view this situation so that you can understand our perspective the same way we understand yours.

7 Reply

Mike McKinzie

Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

16y

It has been stated on numerous threads why landlords don't take pets. You can have the most behaved pet in the world and just one flea catches a ride into the house. Or the cat kills a bird or mouse and hides the verminous carcass somewhere in the house. Plus, I hate cat hair on the carpet, in the drapes, stuck to the ceiling, etc...

2 Reply

Jeffrey K.

Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes

16y

To add to Vikram, many of us dont see our property as having a value because it is not a financial investment but an investment in our happiness and stability. If we have a mortgage we found one that works for us and planned on having that payment every month to live in a house. It does not matter what the house is worth becasue our investment in housing is our rentals not our primary. People in this counrty have (and in the EU) have some sort of saving problem and it is taught to us at an early age that our house is an invesment. Maybe like Texas, we should change the books and teach kids another approach to home ownership based on morals not money. Leave the money part to your business life not your home life.

Bill,
I agree with 90% of your post but to say that just because he is thinking of walking away from his home how could you jump to he doesnt have the credit to rent from us, Does that make any sense? if you still have your credit after forclosure there is nothing to be lost. His credit should be shot (like 500s or worse).

1 Reply

Bill Patterson

Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes

16y

Jeff, I was thinking more of ability to pay that could be documented by pay stubs, etc. Buy you are right, a foreclosure will kill his credit rating for some time. And you are right about teaching our kids. I could comment on how the "me generation" has screwed up our economic and social systems for a long time! Although in this case it seems that Ryan did things right....30% down with intentions to raise his family there. But having his truck broken into 2 times, neighbors having their homes broken into, the change in neighborhood demographics, etc. could make me look at this case a little different. I don't agree with strategic defaults in general, but this may have merit.
Bill

0 Reply

Chase T.

Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 7 votes

16y

You wouldn't meet my screening criteria. I don't use credit scores alone, I look for specific items. A real estate item present disqualifies you. Same as an outstanding rental balance. It's nothing personal.

0 Reply

Clarissa Barks

Member since 2010 · 6 posts · 0 votes

16y

I think that if I were to allow cats, I would want to know their alter status.

A reproductively intact cat is a MESS. This I know for a fact.

Maybe landlords/property managers just don't care to be bothered with examining vet records (and what is to stop prospective tenants from faking a vet's report...?)

0 Reply

Ryan Johnson

OP

Member since 2010 · 10 posts · 9 votes

16y

You guys (Landlords) are too strict and mostly "uppity", here is what my pristine home looks like it's on the MLS [LINK REMOVED] So are you saying you wouldn't rent to someone that keeps a place in this condition??? Anyway...If I where in your shoes... landlords I would rent to someone that keeps a clean home over credit, if they sold a home short or foreclosed etc...If a guy makes 4-5 x's the rent and can prove it and has never missed a payment on anything in his life other than his home that he lost his tail on in boom times I would rather have a renter that would keep my place in perfect cond over a possible slob with a 780 credit score (Just saying) Anyway

looks like my house has an offer as of last week, just waiting for the slow as molasses bank to do it's thing. We ended up going the short sell route and have bought another place that should close by the end of Aug so I don't need a rental, but thanks to those that gave constructive criticism on the matter and didn't give me too much of a hard time on my financial situation. God bless :D

0 Reply

Mark N.A

Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes

16y

Ryan --

Last September I rented to a family that was going through foreclosure. The husband had worked at the same job for 28 years and had not so much as a speeding ticket. In May they gave notice they were moving out.

Unfortunately, just like the one rotten pet owner who ruins it for the rest, these folks did the same --

- After giving notice they stayed on 4 more weeks, forcing court eviction;

- All toilets, sinks and tubs clogged;

- Such a mess that it cost $400 to clean;

- Theft of several security yard signs and motion sensor alarms;

- and worst of all: a ROACH INFESTATION the likes of which I have never seen (one literally could not walk across the kitchen without multiple roaches crawling up your leg!).

I hope this foreclosed family is the EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, but I personally won't be taking another chance to find out.

Glad you found another place to buy vs. renting and good luck with that.

1 Reply

Vikram C.

Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

16y

Originally posted by Ryan Johnson:

You guys (Landlords) are too strict and mostly "uppity"

Ryan, I think you misunderstand the nature of decisions in business. Business owners, including landlords, do not decide in a world of perfect information. Therefore we have to apply rules based on probabilities instead of certainties.

And if you are not keeping your promise in one important aspect of your life, it just makes it more likely that you may default on other promises compared to another person who has not defaulted. It is as simple as that and there's nothing personal or emotional or uppity about it.

2 Reply

Rentals why no cats?

Rentals why no cats?

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