Family photo as part of rental application
Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes
Family photo as part of rental application
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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votesOriginally posted by @Robert Hudson:
I am a white male and I am discriminated against daily. TV commercials and shows are constantly portraying women as being intelligent and efficient while men are shown as lazy, clueless buffoons. There are no special programs in place to help me. The only special programs involving me are put in place to prosecute me. All of the ills of society are the result of the white male. I am told to "check my privlege". If I have any privlege it's because I have worked for it! Discrimination in some form will always exist and it's a two way street. It's just an obstacle that successful people overcome. (I bet this post gets deleted)
Robert,
I'm not going to delete your post, but simply point out that those who benefit from systematic discrimination often do not recognize it. It is also common to feel you are being short-changed by measures intended to address the systematic issues.
That aside, I agree that everyone who works smartly and hard to get ahead should be able to enjoy the fruits of her or his efforts and that discrimination is something to be overcome ... by all of us.
42 Replies
- 9yAlexander FelicePro MemberGuy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I don't think asking for a picture is illegal (though I'm not sure)
but I know the reason they want is definitely illegal.
creative though, gotta give them that!!! LOLOLOL #mysideshurt
keep looking my friend.
- 9yKim Meredith HamptonBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Alex,
I think it is illegal regarding familial status. I would turn them in and Move on, don't rent from these people. Bad news!!! Sad, sad, sad.....
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9ySo officially didn't get it. I was "top three" and it came down to the owner's preference. Needless to say, I am not letting this go.
- Rental Property Investor · Yardley, PA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 561 votes9y
What is actually wrong with this? Can't landlord know who they are renting to? I guess we could simply ask to meet everyone in person. Would that be wrong too?
- Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
I believe as a landlord you can use a copy of a photo ID ,, drivers license to verify identiy of person living in unit / property.. you can ask to see ID at application time.. once you have completed application to ask for copy of photo ID for file I believe is not a discrimination, or fair housing issue because you did not use it to filter for application your use is strictly to verify identiy of tenant after the application was either denied or approved..
It has been useful for myself in several instances when police where called to identify tenant
- Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes9yAlex Knights So outside of it just being wrong, I’d never ask for a family photo and I don’t own in California. If I owned/rented in California I’d NEVER, EVER, EVER ask for a family photo. There’s no upside to it only the potential for a claim of discrimination based on protected class. Not to mention that it just smells of being morally dicey and not the most ethical thing to do.
- Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 8 votes9y
That is asking for trouble and I would turn him in with any physical evidence you have. Emails letters, text messages
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
So the agent says that the couple that was accepted had higher and stronger income history.
- 9yAlexander FelicePro MemberGuy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Alex Knights:
So the agent says that the couple that was accepted had higher and stronger income history.
Well regardless if they are guilty of anything or not, they certainly are not going to admit it if they are.
Just move on, plenty of rentals. Nothing to accomplish here. Sorry for your troubles.
- Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes9y
They could have asked for that for illegal discrimination reasons, or they could have asked because they have been lied to in the past about pets or number of people who will be living in the house.
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
Originally posted by @Alexander Felice:
Originally posted by @Alex Knights:
So the agent says that the couple that was accepted had higher and stronger income history.
Well regardless if they are guilty of anything or not, they certainly are not going to admit it if they are.
Just move on, plenty of rentals. Nothing to accomplish here. Sorry for your troubles.
Actually very very few in this area.
- Sun Prairie, WI · Member since 2013 · 150 posts · 69 votes9y
I'm not sure what the point is of asking for a family photo other than to discriminate. Anyone who thinks it will show pets and number of children must be naïve. Of course you could hand in any photo you want and if I was in that position I'd hand in the one without my pets (they don't usually make it in family photos anyway due to the antagonistic relationship between the cat and dog). Asking for identification to verify that the information you were given on an application makes sense, but not a family photo. Just doesn't pass the sniff test. I'm sorry this happened to you.
If the other applicants had better ratios, and was stronger, then IMO it'd be very hard to prove that you were denied based on the family photo. If you feel they are lying, I'm sure there is lawyer who will happily take the case and take your money to try and prove that they denied you based on the picture, however it's a very expensive battle, and I can guarantee you, they won't ever rent to you if you sue them,... so personally, I would just move on.
We recently had 2 amazing applications for a big house (2,000 sq ft) $850, 1 was for a family with a 7x income, and another was 2 roommates that were military contractors, where their ratio was 13x-- yes, 13x! We picked the family because they would be a better long term fit, whereas the contractors were only there for a year. I say this to show, it's the owners preference about who they chose, even when you have 2 perfect A+ applicants, it boils down to who they feel is the best long term fit.
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
Originally posted by @Linda S.:
If the other applicants had better ratios, and was stronger, then IMO it'd be very hard to prove that you were denied based on the family photo. If you feel they are lying, I'm sure there is lawyer who will happily take the case and take your money to try and prove that they denied you based on the picture, however it's a very expensive battle, and I can guarantee you, they won't ever rent to you if you sue them,... so personally, I would just move on.
We recently had 2 amazing applications for a big house (2,000 sq ft) $850, 1 was for a family with a 7x income, and another was 2 roommates that were military contractors, where their ratio was 13x-- yes, 13x! We picked the family because they would be a better long term fit, whereas the contractors were only there for a year. I say this to show, it's the owners preference about who they chose, even when you have 2 perfect A+ applicants, it boils down to who they feel is the best long term fit.
I hear you. I felt like I got a runaround for a few days while they got their story straight. They only 'disclosed' the stronger AND LONGER income history after I pressed the issue. Mind you, we were only asked to submit two years of W2s. So how is it that it's longer history?? Yes, I can just move on. I do not wish to live in that house anymore. But if I just move on, how does that prevent the landlord from doing this again? Not sure if you've ever experienced it, but it sucks to be discriminated against.
If you feel confident that the reason you weren't chosen was because of the picture, then definitely go see if a lawyer will work on it for pro bono. As long as it doesn't cost you anything, and you feel certain they are in the wrong, then absolutely go for it! If they said longer income, but only required 2 years of W2s, then they likely confirmed with the employer that they'd been at their job for X years. If you have the time, and feel confident about the case, go for it! Just a thought, if you really want to determine if that was/wasn't the case, find another property they are renting.. and create 2 alias, very stereotypical names and stereotypical writing, , and see if they tell you it's rented, and it's available to the other? That'd be a case I'd bring to a lawyer!
As far as the discrimination goes, I'm a woman in real estate. It's kind of normal. I have contractors state that they will only talk with my husband, and I think we're up to 3 complaints about me this year, where they say I'm too outspoken, and threaten not to work with us because I'm too "direct." Some men are really uncomfortable with women as their boss, at first I was offended, but then you just realize it's a part of life, and get thick skin.
I also have seen discrimination from banks, who wouldn't lend to us because the area we invest in-- "What kind of people do you rent to?!" they immediately think we're slumlords, or the properties are only section 8, stuff like that.. whereas our houses are gorgeous, and we only rent to hard working people! I complained to the guy's boss, but she essentially just stood up for him... so it was useless,... It's just a part of the game, and when we see it, we direct our business elsewhere.
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
Originally posted by @Linda S.:
If you feel confident that the reason you weren't chosen was because of the picture, then definitely go see if a lawyer will work on it for pro bono. As long as it doesn't cost you anything, and you feel certain they are in the wrong, then absolutely go for it! If they said longer income, but only required 2 years of W2s, then they likely confirmed with the employer that they'd been at their job for X years. If you have the time, and feel confident about the case, go for it! Just a thought, if you really want to determine if that was/wasn't the case, find another property they are renting.. and create 2 alias, very stereotypical names and stereotypical writing, , and see if they tell you it's rented, and it's available to the other? That'd be a case I'd bring to a lawyer!
As far as the discrimination goes, I'm a woman in real estate. It's kind of normal. I have contractors state that they will only talk with my husband, and I think we're up to 3 complaints about me this year, where they say I'm too outspoken, and threaten not to work with us because I'm too "direct." Some men are really uncomfortable with women as their boss, at first I was offended, but then you just realize it's a part of life, and get thick skin.
I also have seen discrimination from banks, who wouldn't lend to us because the area we invest in-- "What kind of people do you rent to?!" they immediately think we're slumlords, or the properties are only section 8, stuff like that.. whereas our houses are gorgeous, and we only rent to hard working people! I complained to the guy's boss, but she essentially just stood up for him... so it was useless,... It's just a part of the game, and when we see it, we direct our business elsewhere.
I hear ya. Just keep on doing what you do and hopefully at least one person's point of view will be changed.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:
What is actually wrong with this? Can't landlord know who they are renting to? I guess we could simply ask to meet everyone in person. Would that be wrong too?
It depends. Anything which can be construed as discrimination is a potential issue.
My multi-family mentor tells the story of a rental agent who was showing multiple properties to a prospective tenant. The tenant asked about each property, "How's the neighborhood?" Of course, the agent responded positively ...
... except that at one property, upon getting out of her car, she locked her car doors where she hadn't done that at the others. She wound up getting prosecuted for it.
- Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2015 · 380 posts · 201 votes9y
Originally posted by @Linda S.:
I also have seen discrimination from banks, who wouldn't lend to us because the area we invest in-- "What kind of people do you rent to?!" they immediately think we're slumlords, or the properties are only section 8, stuff like that.. whereas our houses are gorgeous, and we only rent to hard working people! I complained to the guy's boss, but she essentially just stood up for him... so it was useless,... It's just a part of the game, and when we see it, we direct our business elsewhere.
This is generally illegal on the banks part. Look up redlining.
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:
What is actually wrong with this? Can't landlord know who they are renting to? I guess we could simply ask to meet everyone in person. Would that be wrong too?
It depends. Anything which can be construed as discrimination is a potential issue.
My multi-family mentor tells the story of a rental agent who was showing multiple properties to a prospective tenant. The tenant asked about each property, "How's the neighborhood?" Of course, the agent responded positively ...
... except that at one property, upon getting out of her car, she locked her car doors where she hadn't done that at the others. She wound up getting prosecuted for it.
What??!! Just for locking her car door? Wow!
- Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2015 · 380 posts · 201 votes9y
Originally posted by @Alex Knights:
My family and I are looking into moving into a single family residence as we have outgrown our condo. Planning to do a rental for now. Found a house we really like and was asked to submit a family photo as part of the application. This is in California. Is this legal?
I would imagine that it's only illegal if you can prove discrimination. But I would agree that either the landlord is very naive, or being discriminatory. I'm a benefit of the doubt kind of guy, so I would hope that it was just the naivety of the landlord. I understand your frustration/concern here. I'm not sure how I'd handle it in your shoes, honestly. Perhaps see if they have lots of other properties. If it's a person renting out their previous residence and it's the only property they have, I'd chalk it up to naivety. If the landlord has 20 rentals, then it's more suspicious.
- Crossville, TN · Member since 2017 · 121 posts · 168 votes9y
I am a white male and I am discriminated against daily. TV commercials and shows are constantly portraying women as being intelligent and efficient while men are shown as lazy, clueless buffoons. There are no special programs in place to help me. The only special programs involving me are put in place to prosecute me. All of the ills of society are the result of the white male. I am told to "check my privlege". If I have any privlege it's because I have worked for it! Discrimination in some form will always exist and it's a two way street. It's just an obstacle that successful people overcome. (I bet this post gets deleted)
- Glendale, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes9y
Originally posted by @Robert Hudson:
I am a white male and I am discriminated against daily. TV commercials and shows are constantly portraying women as being intelligent and efficient while men are shown as lazy, clueless buffoons. There are no special programs in place to help me. The only special programs involving me are put in place to prosecute me. All of the ills of society are the result of the white male. I am told to "check my privlege". If I have any privlege it's because I have worked for it! Discrimination in some form will always exist and it's a two way street. It's just an obstacle that successful people overcome. (I bet this post gets deleted)
I feel your pain. Hopefully one day I can be as successful as you. Keep fighting the fight.
- 9yRoy N.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Robert Hudson:
I am a white male and I am discriminated against daily. TV commercials and shows are constantly portraying women as being intelligent and efficient while men are shown as lazy, clueless buffoons. There are no special programs in place to help me. The only special programs involving me are put in place to prosecute me. All of the ills of society are the result of the white male. I am told to "check my privlege". If I have any privlege it's because I have worked for it! Discrimination in some form will always exist and it's a two way street. It's just an obstacle that successful people overcome. (I bet this post gets deleted)
Robert,
I'm not going to delete your post, but simply point out that those who benefit from systematic discrimination often do not recognize it. It is also common to feel you are being short-changed by measures intended to address the systematic issues.
That aside, I agree that everyone who works smartly and hard to get ahead should be able to enjoy the fruits of her or his efforts and that discrimination is something to be overcome ... by all of us.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
Most states prohibit "cherry picking" renter applications* and require that the chronologically first applicant who meets the specified criteria MUST be accepted. You may be able to build a case on that basis, if you believe there is some value to be pursued.
*: It may also be an EHO (Equal Housing Opportunity) violation. Check with your legal counsel.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Alex Knights:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:
What is actually wrong with this? Can't landlord know who they are renting to? I guess we could simply ask to meet everyone in person. Would that be wrong too?
It depends. Anything which can be construed as discrimination is a potential issue.
My multi-family mentor tells the story of a rental agent who was showing multiple properties to a prospective tenant. The tenant asked about each property, "How's the neighborhood?" Of course, the agent responded positively ...
... except that at one property, upon getting out of her car, she locked her car doors where she hadn't done that at the others. She wound up getting prosecuted for it.
What??!! Just for locking her car door? Wow!
Either you do it consistently or not at all. Doing it selectively makes a statement which may be open to (mis)interpretation.
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