Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 7 votes
Hello BP family! I want to give a friend advice on a situation. However, I'm not really sure how to handle this. Interested in hearing your advice/feedback on a possible domestic violence situation:
If a tenant in one unit overhears a loud domestic violence situation that involves yelling, crying and worse of all hitting or beating. How should the landlord handle this? Does the landlord have to directly observe the incident or be alerted from the actual victim? Obviously, the tenant that overheard the fight is VERY concerned. Should the landlord ask to be notified immediately if the tenant hears it again? Any advice?
Rental Property Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 187 votes
9y
That's a situation for the police to handle, not a landlord. However if the others tenants are bothered by loud arguments that don't rise to the level of getting the police involved then the landlord could serve a notice for violating the quiet enjoyment clause in the lease and purse and eviction.
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
If neighboring tenant is afraid of calling police, let them know the next time it's occurring to notify you and you will call police about the disturbance.
You can give tenants a disturbance notice, lease violation. if it's reported to you, if you need to go over and check it out during a disturbance.
Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes
9y
I would not go over there and "check it out" while it's going on, that's a recipe for disaster ... the only thing to be done while it's going on is call the police.
Investor · Away · Member since 2017 · 167 posts · 131 votes
9y
Some good advice here, specifically speaking you don't have an obligation to do anything as it wasn't directly observed by you. Worse yet if you do pursue eviction the tenant, if they feel singled out, may come after you legally. Not saying they would win or even that it is truly that big a deal, landlords end up in court often enough, it is just a time and money expense that may come from "trying to do the right thing" by getting the eviction going when you didn't observe any wrong doing.
I am, of course, not suggesting you just let it go but the time for action on this particular incident has passed you by. The unfortunate reality of these situations is that you cannot retroactively do anything because that is not the way the law works. These men are, in a way, protected by not being caught in the act and the fear they lay out in the victims. They need help themselves often times too but without an incident taking place and police called to the scene at the time of the incident you have very few options.
A final thought is that eviction may very well be the last option you want to pursue with these tenants because it places the solution far and beyond your control while also compounding problems for the victim that may be taken out on them. You don't have an obligation to help but I would like to think you have a desire to if you're asking here. If they leave you may never be able to do anything to help the person in need of it. Best of luck, I wish all involved the very best and hope it gets solved positively.
Madison, WI · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 23 votes
9y
As a former police officer the advice given here is correct. As a landlord you have no reason to interject yourself- all it does is open you up to more issues than it will solve.
Encourage your tenants to call the police next time they hear something, they can remain anonymous if they wish.
West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 18 votes
9y
I'm not sure if it's limited to section 8, but last I read in Florida you can't evict someone for domestic violence related noise. It's a carve out. I don't know if it's broad or just section 8 or if it's even still active law as it's been a few years since I dealt with section 8. However, your state (or anyone else reading this thread) may have an active law relating to this.
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
9y
@Sahana R. it pretty messed up that all these people are just telling you to ignore this.
I have zero tolerance for domestic violence and my rules don't allow any crime to be committed on my property. Maybe you can't prove it, but that doesn't stop you from reporting it and letting the police investigate. They can do a welfare check. Most likely the lady will say she fell or something, but MAYBE this time she will stand up to him. It is not for you to be judge and jury. Police can take whatever action they want.
You should issue a noise complaint and put them on notice. In the report document that yelling, crying and hitting noises. You are not evicting, but giving them written notice of a lease violation. This can help to be documentation later to support an eviction.
As far as if it happens again, tell the neighbor to call 911 immediately.
I know some landlords just want to bury their head in the sand, but you are responsible for the welfare of your tenants and property. If you do nothing and this guy attacks the neighboring tenant, you will find yourself in major legal trouble. There is also the moral aspect of just being a good person.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
I don't know if you have tried a long distance police report but if you are next door they will come, if you are in the next county response isn't so good so tell the tenant to call when they hear it. Point out to the complaining tenant they don't know what is happening so for everyones safety they should report it real time. Should it escalate they have someone is coming. If it doesn't escalate the perpetrator realizes someone is paying attention.
Investor · Away · Member since 2017 · 167 posts · 131 votes
9y
@Joe Splitrock I don't think anyone here is trying to condone the actions of this man or telling her to ignore it completely. We are all just answering the question as written. The facts are that you can always inform your local officers of what you heard, what was reported to you as the landlord, or whatever. As a PERSON you can do whatever you want and whatever your ethics demand. As a LANDLORD you have to understand the business ramifications of your actions when weighed against the potential for damage to your property or profit.
I can't and don't condone this man's actions for the obvious reason that you should never do violence to one you love be it physical, emotional or mental. However, this is not a forum for personal ethics and philosophy, this is a business forum for the specific business of real estate. Our advice here has to be as accurate and impartial as possible to be helpful, telling someone to make an emotional decision from an emotional place only gets someone into trouble.
As has been said by nearly everyone here I must again reiterate that the time for action in this one event is over. You cannot and will not win and are only tipping your hand to the man that he is being watched. If you are going to try and do something about this as a person then you don't need a stranger's advice here and now, if not, no amount of prodding on our part will goad you to action. This is a terrible thing and we all hate that it happens but we shouldn't pass judgement on strangers seeking advice on the best way to deal with it.
@Joe Splitrock I don't think anyone here is trying to condone the actions of this man or telling her to ignore it completely. We are all just answering the question as written. The facts are that you can always inform your local officers of what you heard, what was reported to you as the landlord, or whatever. As a PERSON you can do whatever you want and whatever your ethics demand. As a LANDLORD you have to understand the business ramifications of your actions when weighed against the potential for damage to your property or profit.
I can't and don't condone this man's actions for the obvious reason that you should never do violence to one you love be it physical, emotional or mental. However, this is not a forum for personal ethics and philosophy, this is a business forum for the specific business of real estate. Our advice here has to be as accurate and impartial as possible to be helpful, telling someone to make an emotional decision from an emotional place only gets someone into trouble.
As has been said by nearly everyone here I must again reiterate that the time for action in this one event is over. You cannot and will not win and are only tipping your hand to the man that he is being watched. If you are going to try and do something about this as a person then you don't need a stranger's advice here and now, if not, no amount of prodding on our part will goad you to action. This is a terrible thing and we all hate that it happens but we shouldn't pass judgement on strangers seeking advice on the best way to deal with it.
I am not judging anyone. Landlords who ignore problems will attract more problems. I am offering advice to prevent that.
The fact that the event is over doesn't mean it is too late to report it or take action. Crimes are regularly reported days, weeks or even months after they occur. The police may do nothing, but they may not even do something when the event is occurring (depends on priority level in the area). Your role as a landlord is to report suspected crimes that occurred on your property. How it is handled is up to the legal system. As far as a noise complaint, it is not practical for a landlord to be on site to hear a noise complaint. It is prudent to issue warnings when tenants make complaints.
This is all about being a smart business owner. Criminal activity and noise problems will drive away good tenants. I have had it happen multiple times, so I am offering business advice. My properties have crime free and noise clauses in the lease for the benefit of my business.
I don't follow your comment about tipping your hand to someone that they are being watched. That is exactly what you want to do. You want criminals to know they are being watched, so they will either stop the activity or in my experience they are more likely to just move out.
I had a wife beater in one of my properties and he also punched holes in walls, broke windows, kicked in doors and more. If someone will smack their wife, they wouldn't think twice about damaging your property. It is just smart to get people like this out as soon as possible.
When you choose to become a landlord, tenant welfare becomes your responsibility. Obviously you can only take steps within the law, but taking no action leaves you open to liability when something happens. It would be like if someone told you the roof leaked during the last storm. It is not leaking now, but that doesn't mean you should just wait until the next storm to fix it.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 7 votes
9y
Thank you to everyone for all of your posts and concerns. We appreciate your advice. The last thing anyone wants is for this woman to be abused in anyway. And we don't want the other tenant to feel uncomfortable at her own place. @Jenny Duclair Yes there are some rights an abused woman has, such as breaking a lease and requesting the locks be change but I think it is state specific. Thanks BP Family!
Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 240 posts · 153 votes
9y
"All you have is hear-say if you didn't hear it yourself."
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned or ignore the problem, but this is all hear-say (even though its probably true).
This is the problem of the police, HOWEVER, it would affect the renter's criminal status which would make it relevant to deciding whether or not you want to continue renting to them.