New tenant breaking lease by smoking on premises - how to handle

New tenant breaking lease by smoking on premises - how to handle

Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes

My online ad for a unit that was recently available to rent stipulated that there is no smoking of any kind allowed anywhere on the premises (including the porch stoop, back yard, and driveway).  When asked during the phone interview and again on the rental application whether he was a smoker, the tenant responded no. 

My bad for renting to him because he smelled like smoke at the showing, but I figured it was a one-off thing and that he wouldn't smoke on the premises.  Well of course he's a smoker and has been smoking on the stoop.  I know this because I live in the duplex unit next door and with my front door open, the smell is overpowering.  When I walk outside to see who is smoking, no one is anywhere, except the tenant is on his stoop with a ceramic mug next to him.  No cigarette in hand, because as soon as he sees my screen door open, he stubs out his cig.

When they (the smoker guy and his girlfriend) signed the lease, I reiterated to them very strongly that there is no smoking allowed anywhere on the premises, and they initialed that page of the lease that includes the no smoking clause, in italics.  

Whether or not you agree that it's reasonable not to allow tenants to smoke on the stoop is not the question.  The question is, he's only been living there a week and there are already lease violations (this is not the first time I've smelled smoke and seen him on the stoop--the last time, I asked him to walk down the street).  I am also concerned that they have an unauthorized tenant, as I've seen someone not on the lease enter with a key.  

Lesson for me is not to rent to someone who smells like smoke, but if they say on the application that they don't smoke, and they tell me they don't smoke, and they meet all my other requirements, it's a gray area for charges of discrimination.  

Anyway, now I could use advice about how to proceed.  I don't think I'll ever catch him in the act.  My concern if I tell him not to smoke on the stoop is that he'll just smoke inside, which is worse.  And come the winter, he'll probably smoke inside.  

Do I give a written warning?  A formal notice stating that he violated the lease?  I already did an inspection 2 days ago, having given 24 hours' notice, because I "needed to change out the shower arm" (which I did).  I saw a lighter on his bed and a bong in the other bedroom but no cigarette butts.  I should have checked the trash.  

The unit is a diligently restored and very nice midcentury-modern 3/1 in a duplex with their own fenced yard and garage for about $2k.  They have a 1 year lease and have put down a $2250 security deposit.  @Marcia Maynard or anyone else, any ideas?  

0Reply
80 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 62 votes
9y
That relocation fee is ridiculous.
See this reply in the discussion

27 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Mission, TX · Member since 2017 · 220 posts · 135 votes
    9y
    Dani Z. A formal lease violation notice seems like a good step to me. From the sound of this it will probably not get better (I sure hope it does!!!). If that doesn't work I would give a 30 day notice for lease violation. Not sure how your state works on that though...
  • Investor · Mission, TX · Member since 2017 · 220 posts · 135 votes
    9y
    Dani Z. I'm just curious why no smoking on the premises? I know it's not the question but just wonder what your thought process is?
  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 118 posts · 147 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed - what's the rationale for no smoking on the entire property. Looking for context to the entire situation to find the best solution. 

  • Investor · Cleveland Heights, OH · Member since 2017 · 128 posts · 73 votes
    9y

    I generally don't allow in the property but allow outside as it is really hard to enforce a total no premise policy.  So if they are afraid of being caught and have the habit are likely to smoke inside.  You can give a warning of violation of lease, but you get stuck if there is not already money consequence for the action.  Then are you going to kick them out for smoking which is quite costly.  Can you reach a middle ground where they can smoke outside?

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    In light of the fact that in two weeks he is in violation of the lease I would be giving notice to evict. Follow your state codes and once you have filed offer to allow them out of the lease as opposed to having an eviction on their record. Intimidation is your best option at this point. If you do not want them stinking up your property your only option is to evict.

    Next tenant do not use a term lease...only use M2M leases.

    All advice dependant on your state codes.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Acuna @Account Closed this is my first lease ever in my 5 years as a landlord.  Previously were all m2m agreements.  But there's relatively new local legislation that forces landlords to pay a $4500 relocation fee if they fail to renew an agreement of any term--whether monthly or yearly--so the benefit to the landlord of m2m is largely gone.  May as well have a year lease that at least comes up for renewal during the busy season.  

    For unauthorized smoking and pets and for tampering with smoke/CO alarms, the state allows a fee of up to $250 for a second and subsequent occurrence after a written warning has been given for a first occurrence (within a year of the second occurrence).  So after reading these comments above, and for the sake of maintaining my boundaries yet also the relationship, maybe I'll issue a written warning, explaining the $250 fine for a second offense.  I just hope they don't then bring it inside.  

    The other part of this equation is, he lied on his application about being a smoker.  That bothers me because if he does that, what else does he lie about and how do I trust him in general?  I spent 8 days on my hands and knees scrubbing cove base with a toothbrush and caked-on soap scum from the tub, scrubbing and painting walls, and taking 11 passes to the kitchen floor with a mop to strip/seal/polish it etc. to deliver a pristine perfect unit to these people.  

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    This then means your only option is to evict.

    In my jurisdiction we do not have the right to terminate any tenant lease for any reason. The only way we can get rid of a tenant is through a justifiable eviction. That is basically how you are now forced to operate as well.

  • Investor · Mission, TX · Member since 2017 · 220 posts · 135 votes
    9y
    Dani Z. I see your side. If it really is with that to you then I think you need to stick to your enforcement. $250 seems like a legit fine. I would also worry he would smoke inside. To me I would much rather smell the smoke than have him ruin my home. Good luck! I hope you don't have to evict!
  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 118 posts · 147 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Thanks for the context. I agree with your approach of:

    1. Notice to quit and explanation of future fines

    2. Future fines if still smoking

    3. Eviction

    I would leave eviction to last resort as this may cause more damage than good. 

    Let us know how you make out. 

  • Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 62 votes
    9y
    That relocation fee is ridiculous.
  • Investor · Spring, TX · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    Are you in town? If you live on a property that is Smoke free by order of the owner and inforced by a written lease from the non owner occupents then I think the next time you smell smoke you should take the only prudent course of action and get out of the house say to the front porch ( where your tenant might be sitting) then you might take the prudent action of calling the Fire Department of course you should loudly warn your tenant that there appears to be a fire due to the smell of smoke on your non smoking property and that you are calling the fire department so they can check it out. Then just see what happens.

    Insert sarcasm where you feel is approprate..........

  • Real Estate Investor · North Ridgeville, OH · Member since 2016 · 97 posts · 81 votes
    9y

    The very first rule of landlording is stop taking things personal.  I have spent over 12 hours on my hands and knees to sand and strip a subfloor because of the smell of pet urine only to have the next tenant's dog pee on the floor.  You just have to take these things in stride.  Remember it's just a business and don't make it personal despite your hard work.  Also remember for rentals good enough is just that good enough.  Renters aren't going to care about how much work you put into the unit, so you shouldn't care either to a point.  Make it clean, safe, and bug free.  That's my motto.  Anything more than that and you are throwing money away!

  • Rental Property Investor · Schenectady, NY · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 19 votes
    9y
    Is there a location on the property where he could smoke without the smoke traveling into your unit? Perhaps a side yard or back yard? Like most have said, I'd rather compromise than risk smoking in the unit. Tell him you're smelling the smoke and it's making you ill, so if he could move it to the (new location) it would be much appreciated.
  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Let us know how trying to inforce a fine for smoking works out for you.

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 208 posts · 137 votes
    9y

    Considering you live there, my first step would be having a talk with the guy. Engage him in a conversation and politely mention that you believe you are smelling smoke coming from his apartment and would like him to please stop.  From what you have described, I don't think he will stop, but if you begin with that first step, you've at least left open the possibility of him realizing his mistake and correcting it without threats which are going to cause the relationship between you and the tenant to sour, make your living situation miserable, and encourage him to trash his unit or create other problems. Considering he has already lied to you, I'd expect the worst from this tenant. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but tenants do not care about the degree of painstaking care you have put into making the unit perfect. You take pride in your property, but bad tenants could care less about undoing all your work and trashing your place. Speaking from experience, the type of tenant who lies and breaks rules will probably pay their rent late at some point. When that happens, evict without mercy and hope for a better tenant next time. I think you're going to have a tough time with this tenant, and you should focus on minimizing major damage until you can get him out. But who knows, maybe a simple request will turn everything around.

  • Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
    9y
    Read up on your tenant landlord laws. Sometimes you have more rights as a landlord/occupant, because it is your personal house. Once you know where you stand...and the laws favoring tenants, you can better decide how to proceed. Ideally you will just tell him that it isnt working out and that you will give him a good reference for his next place. Be very nice and tell him you will work with him, etc. Explain to him that smoking is in violation of the lease and therefore a valid reason to ask him to leave. Do not use the term eviction, but surely everyone knows evictions happen in court and future landlords see the record.
  • Real Estate Investor · Springfield, OR · Member since 2013 · 94 posts · 35 votes
    9y

    In Oregon, all the fees you can charge are spelled out explicitly in ORS 90, and it also describes how the fees must be described in your lease if you're going to charge them. I could give you the details about the allowed smoking fees, but in the interest of teaching a man how to fish, I'll instead refer you to your local Rental Owner Association. http://www.portlandarearoa.com/

    I'm a member of the Linn/Benton ROA, and it's wonderful. They have a hotline you can call with any questions about ORS 90, and especially when I was getting started, I called it all the time. BP is great for lots of things, but these laws are so detailed and state-specific, it's really better to ask someone with a local orientation.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bend, OR · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 87 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed is right. I believe you have way more freedom and discretion from the landlord tenant laws since you live there. However, the tenant has broken the lease (assuming you get some hard evidence). Get a warning issued in writing. If it happens again, (and it will), get rid of them. Smoking inside sucks, but it can be fixed. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    9y

    Thank you all for the feedback. I ended up taking a cue from Jeffrey, Mike, and Justin and just went over there and talked to him about it. He seemed receptive and was polite.

    Landlord-tenant relationships are shaky here right now with the tenant's union fighting hard for rent control from local and state politicians. I don't want to give my tenants any reason to radicalize against me ... wait a sec ... what do you know, it's midnight and the smoke alarm just went off again next door, like it has been almost every day since they moved in ... maybe I'll write up that warning after all ...

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
    9y

    Your application is discriminatory in that you really can't ask someone if they are a smoker. Just let him smoke outside, no big deal. If you don't like the smell, close your windows. I get what you are saying but you can't control tenants that much.

  • Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Ray Harrell:

    Your application is discriminatory in that you really can't ask someone if they are a smoker. Just let him smoke outside, no big deal. If you don't like the smell, close your windows. I get what you are saying but you can't control tenants that much.

    Do you have any references for that?  The Biggerpockets application asks about smoking, and smokers are not a protected class.  I am pretty sure you are incorrect that it is discriminatory (but, I'm not a lawyer) aside from maybe certain local ordinances.  

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Ray Harrell:

    Your application is discriminatory in that you really can't ask someone if they are a smoker. Just let him smoke outside, no big deal. If you don't like the smell, close your windows. I get what you are saying but you can't control tenants that much.

    All regions are different, but even here in liberal NY, being a smoker is not a protected class. Landlords here are free to discriminate against smokers, slobs, jerks, sex offenders, and other characteristics not listed with HUD.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
    9y

    That's terrible.

  • Investor · Front Royal, VA · Member since 2013 · 586 posts · 418 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed he's a smoker, he isn't likely to quit. He violated the lease and you're doing a diservice to your other tenants to keep him around. People that are brazenly breaking the rules within a week will only get worse. Hope this works out for you!

  • Investor · Front Royal, VA · Member since 2013 · 586 posts · 418 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Ray Harrell:

    Your application is discriminatory in that you really can't ask someone if they are a smoker. Just let him smoke outside, no big deal. If you don't like the smell, close your windows. I get what you are saying but you can't control tenants that much.

     I guess we found the smoker in the thread. 

    It is most definitely not a protected class under HUD, take a look for yourself
    https://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_...

    In fact, HUD's public housing just went 100% smoke free. The authority on discriminatory policy screens people out who smoke. Where are you getting your info from Ray?

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.