Violent Tenant and Neighbor Conflict

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Violent Tenant and Neighbor Conflict

Amy E.
Investor · Bonaire, GA · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 82 votes

I've had several complaints from neighbors about one of my rentals in GA, which has a Section 8 tenant.  The tenants pay rent on time and treat the property at the minimum acceptable level.  They punched a hole in a door, which they paid for.  They punched a hole in a wall, which they repaired themselves.  The house is filthy, but there's not junk/garbage lying around (it just needs a good scrub).  That said, I've had worse tenants and if these were the only issues I would not terminate the lease.

However, there have been three separate domestic violence incidents on the property in the last year, and arrests have been made. None of the people arrested are on my lease.  The last time it happened, the guy that got arrested made verbal threats to the neighbor, and now the neighbors are calling me because they are scared to go outside in their own neighborhood.  The neighbor claims tenant is smoking weed as well.  I've personally not witnessed anything negative with respect to the tenant.

I want to be a good landlord neighbor, but I want to be fair to the tenant, too.  They've damaged the property, but have fixed it.  They pay their rent.  That said, their lease expired in April and we are now month-to-month.  My lease states either party can terminate the lease during the month-to-month status with the appropriate notice.

Legally, I can terminate the lease (it'd be a hassle with Section 8, but it can be done) but I'm not sure if I actually should or not.  Turnover costs are a bit high in my area, which is another factor.   But I feel like the situation with the neighbor is only going to escalate and I had hoped to keep this property for another decade.  

I have not talked to the tenant yet.  Any tips or recommendations for how to proceed?

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Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

You need to have a good rental agreement in place and you need to enforce it. These actions of your tenant should not be acceptable to you! 

If you do nothing, the unrest will continue. You are putting both the neighbors and local law enforcement in a difficult position. The neighbors reached out to you with the expectation that you would not condone this tenant's behavior and would do something to curtail it.

It you do nothing, the value of your property will decrease. Your tenants are slowly destroying your property and your reputation in the community. They are putting you at risk too. If you don't do your due diligence in tenant selection and address issues as they arise, you may be held liable for the fallout.  It appears you have a tenant who has a violent nature and they invite other people to the property who have a violent nature. What are you thinking!

Whether the tenant pays rent on time or not is not relevant. Whether the tenant is on the Section 8 program or not, is immaterial. In the brief description you have given, it is obvious this tenant is most likely violating numerous terms of your rental agreement. As any standard rental agreement will have clauses about how the tenants should take care of the property; responsibility for the actions of guests and invitees of the tenant; smoking; use of controlled substances and drugs; property damage and peaceful enjoyment of home for the tenant and for the neighbors.

The first thing I would do is thank the neighbors for sharing their concern and that you will look into the matter. One of the greatest things a landlord can hope for are concerned neighbors who will keep an eye out for unusual and dangerous situations that could arise and notify you of problems that are brewing.

The second thing I would do is call for a maintenance inspection of the property, with proper legal notice. While visiting the property, I would use my scoping skills to keep attentive to any lease violations that may be occurring. Bring a camera to document problems. Ask the tenant about things in need of maintenance and repair, as well as any damages of which they are aware. Charge for damages as you become aware of them.

The third thing I would do is have a sit down, face to face meeting with the tenant. During this meeting I would review the terms of the rental agreement and discuss any known violations of the rental agreement that have occurred during their tenancy.  You may be able to save the tenancy or you may not.

When the situation approaches the level of unacceptability, as it seems it has in your case, I would engage the tenant in a discussion about how this is not working out and it's time to talk about a move-out plan. In a BP Podcast #83, I share some of our tips and strategies when faced with difficult tenants and difficult conversations, so you may want to take a listen to that. Bottom line... it's all about choice and consequences. Do what you need to do. If you can get the tenant to move out on their own instead of going through an eviction through the courts, it will be better for all parties concerned. Your goal at this juncture should be for them to move quickly and to mitigate damages. Prepare to serve the tenant with a Notice to Terminate (or the equivalent in your jurisdiction) and also contact the Section 8 case manager to make sure you do things in proper order for their needs as well.

The turnover you face now won't be easy and will most likely be costly. Tenancies that go south often cost more. You'll need to turnaround that unit and also turnabout the impression the local community has of you and your rentals.

Last thought, thank the law enforcement officers in your community and consider taking any classes that law enforcement may have available for landlords. You should be aiming for doing what you can to make the community more safe. One great concept you may want to explore, especially if your rentals are in a rough area of town, is CPTED.... Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design.... read about it and adopt some of the strategies that will make the neighborhood more safe.

Good luck!

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  • Rick Baggenstoss
    Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Amy E.  I would terminate.  Life is too short to put up with tenants this bad.  I think you just got a bad one or a one with bad friends.  

    There are a lot of folks looking for houses now.  I would think you'll do better now turning it over than down the road when you can't plan for it or if the market softens.

    1Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    You need to have a good rental agreement in place and you need to enforce it. These actions of your tenant should not be acceptable to you! 

    If you do nothing, the unrest will continue. You are putting both the neighbors and local law enforcement in a difficult position. The neighbors reached out to you with the expectation that you would not condone this tenant's behavior and would do something to curtail it.

    It you do nothing, the value of your property will decrease. Your tenants are slowly destroying your property and your reputation in the community. They are putting you at risk too. If you don't do your due diligence in tenant selection and address issues as they arise, you may be held liable for the fallout.  It appears you have a tenant who has a violent nature and they invite other people to the property who have a violent nature. What are you thinking!

    Whether the tenant pays rent on time or not is not relevant. Whether the tenant is on the Section 8 program or not, is immaterial. In the brief description you have given, it is obvious this tenant is most likely violating numerous terms of your rental agreement. As any standard rental agreement will have clauses about how the tenants should take care of the property; responsibility for the actions of guests and invitees of the tenant; smoking; use of controlled substances and drugs; property damage and peaceful enjoyment of home for the tenant and for the neighbors.

    The first thing I would do is thank the neighbors for sharing their concern and that you will look into the matter. One of the greatest things a landlord can hope for are concerned neighbors who will keep an eye out for unusual and dangerous situations that could arise and notify you of problems that are brewing.

    The second thing I would do is call for a maintenance inspection of the property, with proper legal notice. While visiting the property, I would use my scoping skills to keep attentive to any lease violations that may be occurring. Bring a camera to document problems. Ask the tenant about things in need of maintenance and repair, as well as any damages of which they are aware. Charge for damages as you become aware of them.

    The third thing I would do is have a sit down, face to face meeting with the tenant. During this meeting I would review the terms of the rental agreement and discuss any known violations of the rental agreement that have occurred during their tenancy.  You may be able to save the tenancy or you may not.

    When the situation approaches the level of unacceptability, as it seems it has in your case, I would engage the tenant in a discussion about how this is not working out and it's time to talk about a move-out plan. In a BP Podcast #83, I share some of our tips and strategies when faced with difficult tenants and difficult conversations, so you may want to take a listen to that. Bottom line... it's all about choice and consequences. Do what you need to do. If you can get the tenant to move out on their own instead of going through an eviction through the courts, it will be better for all parties concerned. Your goal at this juncture should be for them to move quickly and to mitigate damages. Prepare to serve the tenant with a Notice to Terminate (or the equivalent in your jurisdiction) and also contact the Section 8 case manager to make sure you do things in proper order for their needs as well.

    The turnover you face now won't be easy and will most likely be costly. Tenancies that go south often cost more. You'll need to turnaround that unit and also turnabout the impression the local community has of you and your rentals.

    Last thought, thank the law enforcement officers in your community and consider taking any classes that law enforcement may have available for landlords. You should be aiming for doing what you can to make the community more safe. One great concept you may want to explore, especially if your rentals are in a rough area of town, is CPTED.... Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design.... read about it and adopt some of the strategies that will make the neighborhood more safe.

    Good luck!

    3Reply
  • Brandon McLean
    Investor · Knightdale, NC · Member since 2014 · 122 posts · 74 votes
    9y
    Terminate.
    1Reply
  • Amy E.
    OP
    Investor · Bonaire, GA · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 82 votes
    9y

    Hi @Marcia Maynard, thanks for the input.  I will checkout CPTED in my area.  

    I made the lease I have on Rocket Lawyer and the templates available on BiggerPockets, and then gave it to a local lawyer to review (was cheaper that way).  Not sure what is missing that would cover this situation that's not already in there and very subjective (for instance, it already says the tenant is responsible for keeping the property clean and free of trash and debris).

    I've been doing regular maintenance inspections since I found the first damage, and nothing is an issue other than general cleanliness. I have a pretty good relationship with the tenant.  I suppose I just feel its a bit unfair to terminate a lease for something that the tenant didn't do (tenant was not violent, was not arrested and has not violated the lease). I'm trying to be fair and treat someone the way I would want to be treated, and also run this like a business.

    That said, the tenant chose to invite a violent guest and you're right that I'd rather terminate now when I have a good relationship with the tenant than later if it goes south. 

    Thanks for the tips!

    0Reply
  • Andrew Acuna
    Investor · Mission, TX · Member since 2017 · 220 posts · 135 votes
    9y
    Amy E. I agree with Marcia Maynard I won't elaborate as she did fantastic, but one incident is enough for me.
    0Reply
  • Amy E.
    OP
    Investor · Bonaire, GA · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 82 votes
    9y

    Thanks, @Andrew Acuna.  I guess I just needed a sanity check that I was not being unduly harsh or unfair to the tenant.

    1Reply
  • Andrew Acuna
    Investor · Mission, TX · Member since 2017 · 220 posts · 135 votes
    9y
    Amy E. I'm sure you're awesome! Sometimes people just suck
    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    I assume this is a D class property in which case tolerance of inappropriate behaviour is the norm however I believe your tolerance with this tenant has gone well beyond thee norm. Time to change tenants.

    0Reply
  • Amy E.
    OP
    Investor · Bonaire, GA · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 82 votes
    9y

    Hey @Thomas S.,

    At this point, with six houses all of the same type with similar tenants of similar background, I can say that this is my only problem house....and the issues have not been a problem for me, its been a problem for the neighbors.  In the back of my head I keep thinking that I don't really care who gets arrested as long as rent gets paid and the house is in adequate shape.  

    But then I feel bad for thinking that.....because, you know, Karma.

    0Reply
  • Albert Ng
    Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 221 votes
    9y
    The law maybe different at your place. Here, in California, I know of a landlord who rented his house out for a drug dealer who terrorized the whole neighborhood for a long time. A group of neighbors got together & sued him. He lost and owned them quite a bit, about 10K+ per neighbor, time 10+ neighbors, plus attorney fee.
    0Reply
  • Melissa McGuire
    Professional · Roseville, CA · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 31 votes
    9y

    I would first speak with section 8 you don't want to anger the section 8 gods. Second what about installing a security camera, one that streams to your phone in real time.This way you'd have documentation of what was happening at least outside of the rental. Maybe speak with a neighbor and ask them to film anything they see.  After you have those ducks in a row THEN go to the tenant. People can be strange and you wouldn't want any retaliation to come back to you or your neighbors.  In this way you have a little insurance that they will move along peacable . It will take a little doing but if it were me that's how I would go.

    0Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    In the future I wouldn't give your phone number to the neighbors of the property you own.

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

     I'm willing to bet if she spends the money to put up a security camera, that it won't last long before being damaged or stolen. Asking a neighbor to film these situations is also asking someone to go out of their way for you. They're not typically fans of that. And what's the point in the end? There's already enough proof that this is going on due to the fact the tenant's guests/friends have been arrested. Time is better spent just ending the situation rather than playing detective on such a simple issue. 

    I do agree that perhaps a call to the Section 8 office first would be good so that they can expect this tenant to come to them for housing help. But that would be the reason...it would not be the reason of "not angering the section 8 gods." 

    Retaliation is always a risk, if not a small risk. One would be surprised at how often their fear of retaliation is much higher than the actual chance of it happening. The best thing is to not get terribly involved in the sense that Amy isn't making promises nor showing any emotion towards the tenant. She simply sends her Notice to Vacate (or whatever the step is in her area) citing the end of the lease and no option to renew.

    2Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I'd recommend a Crime Free / Drug Free Addendum and have all residents sign that and you can give that to them when ever you want if they sign fine,, if they don't let them know next lease renewal will it will be part of the lease.

    It states they are responsible for the actions of their guests. This type of disruption with neighbors, guest they have, is thier doing and you need to enforce compliance.

    I would non-renew and make sure you let section 8 know your not renewing their lease when you do that.

    Crime Free / Drug Free Addendum is a great tool to help control what goes on for a owners property.

    You might also get copies of police reports for incidents on your property to back up the disruptions. 

    CRIME-FREE/DRUG-FREE

    ADDENDUM HOUSING AGREEMENT

    In consideration of the agreement for housing the Owner and Agent and Resident agree as follows;

    1.Resident, any members of the resident’s household or a guest or other person under the resident’s control shall not engage in illegal activity, including drug-related illegal activity, on or near the said premises. “Drug-related illegal activity” means the illegal manufacture, sale, distribution, purchase, USE, or possession with intent to manufacture, sell distribute, or USE of a controlled substance (as defined in Section 102 or the Controlled Substance Act (21 U.S.C. 8002) or possession of drug paraphernalia.

    2.Resident, any member of the resident’s household or guest or other person under the resident’s control shall not engage in any act intended to facilitate illegal activity, including drug-related illegal activity, on or near the said premises.

    3.Resident or members of the household will not permit the dwelling to be used for, or to facilitate illegal activity, including drug-related illegal activity, regardless of whether the individual engaging in such activity is a member of the household.

    4.Resident or members of the household will not engage in the manufacture, sale or distribution of illegal drugs at any locations, whether on or near the dwelling unit premises, or otherwise.

    5.Resident, any members of the resident’s household, or a guest or other person under the resident’s control shall not engage in acts of violence, or threats of violence, including but not limited to the unlawful discharge of firearms, prostitution, criminal street gang activity, intimidation, or any other breach of the housing agreement that the other wise jeopardizes the health safety or welfare of the landlord, his agents, or tenants.

    6.VIOLATION OF THE ABOVE PROVISIONS SHALL BE A MATERIAL VIOLATION OF THE HOUSING AGREEMENT AND GOOD CAUSE FOR TEMINATION OF TENANCY. A single violation of any of the provisions of this addendum shall be deemed a serious violation and material non-compliance with the housing agreement.

    It is understood and agreed that a single violation shall be good cause for termination of the housing agreement. Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of violations shall not require criminal conviction, but shall be by the preponderance of the evidence.

    7.In case of conflict between the provisions of this addendum and any other provisions of the housing agreement, the provisions of the addendum shall govern.

    8.This Housing Agreement Addendum is incorporated into the Housing Agreement executed, or renewed this day between the Owner, or Agent, and Resident.

    MANAGEMENT RESIDENT

    Agent

    ___________________________________ _____________________________

    BY:________________________________ _____________________________

    Date Signed:_________________________ Date Signed:___________________

    Resident(s) acknowledge receipt of this addendum by signature of this document.

    0Reply
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