Evicted tenants got a lead paint test -- what to expect next?

Evicted tenants got a lead paint test -- what to expect next?

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes

Hi BP,

I purchased an older (circa 1930) multi-unit building in Pennsylvania.  I inherited 3 sets of tenants under conditions that were concerning at the sale (i.e. no leases or rental history), but I understood that the former owner had basically checked out.  I knocked on doors myself and did get them all to sign an interim M2M lease, and now the building is under property management.

Fast forward almost 2 months... two tenants have never paid, and the management company filed for eviction.  (Were they confused by the management change?  Squatters?  Just short on money?  Who knows.)  Basically, no big surprise, and I'll eat the changeover costs to get some properly vetted tenants.

Surprise!  Today I received a packet containing the results of household lead paint testing, as ordered by a children's doctor and cc'd to the state and city.  As is typical for the building age, it came back positive.  I can't help but notice that the date was a few days after eviction filing.  Their lease did contain a lead paint disclosure (I had no information) and they acknowledged.

My question is: what am I in store for here?  Can anyone share a story of a similar experience?  Is this part of a legal aid strategy to block eviction?  Sue me for healthcare costs?  Or just retaliate by making the unit harder to rent?  I'm a little anxious as to what's coming down the pipe.

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Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
9y

@Aaron Hurst

I agree if it was disclosed that you don't have any reports, than there's no issue. 

I would see if you could offer them money to get out. Lead paint could be only the beginning, copper theft, vandalism, etc. could come down the pike. Might be best to give them $1000 to GTFO. 

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  • Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
    9y

    The lead paint finding should have no bearing on the eviction for unpaid rent.  Rent strike should follow the local landlord/tenant laws but should include notification and time to resolve, and if they signed a lead based paint acknowledgement, its on them because they knew about it.

    I would object to them raising the issue at all in eviction court.  

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Proceed as regular. They do not have a case and are simply attempting scare tactics. The lead test simply confirms what your had been told.

  • Investor · Brownville, ME · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 35 votes
    9y

    I just echo what's been said. They're simply trying to stall or scare you. Proceed as usual here.

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    @Robert Melcher  Thanks for confirming.  I do hope the eviction goes smoothly... although I will be keeping an eye out for other ways for a sufficiently litigious tenant to stick me with a big bill.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    9y

    @Aaron Hurst

    I agree if it was disclosed that you don't have any reports, than there's no issue. 

    I would see if you could offer them money to get out. Lead paint could be only the beginning, copper theft, vandalism, etc. could come down the pike. Might be best to give them $1000 to GTFO. 

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Provided that you were not aware that the property had lead based paint, I would also echo what others have said regarding the current tenant as most states have guidelines regarding the withholding of rent that require prior notice and a period to cure.  Did you provide them with the required lead based paint addendum with their lease agreement ?

    However, moving forward you are aware of the possibility of lead based paint.  You should have your own test done and remediate if necessary as you will have to disclosure to future tenants

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    @Thomas S. @Sean Cassidy Good to hear.  Thanks!

  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    If you have a Pm company handling the eviction they should have some good lawyers that know how to separate the payment of rent from the issues with the home.  If they are only showing this finding after they get the eviction it looks like a scare tactic as everyone else said. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    9y

    If you completed the lead-based-paint disclosure, you should have nothing to worry about.

    Did the tenant bring up any concerns during your short time as the new owner? Of course not! They are bringing it up now to try and scare you or milk some money out of you.

    Stick with your processes, document everything, and move on.

    One more thing: who did the lead-based paint testing? If you have a copy of the report, you are now required to notify current/future tenants that you are aware it exists and share a copy of the report. I would highly recommend you talk to your manager about this and consider contacting the agency that tested the building to see what your options are.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    I don't know Pennsylvania but the one thing to find out is if there is a child in the apartment with elevated lead levels. show what you got to your lawyer. Every state has different lead laws. As for eviction keep going.
  • Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    I agree with the guys who said have that if you have the lead disclosure you should be good. I would be care about paying them to leave now. That might be thought of as paying them off.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Aaron Hurst Did you do any renovations to the property? Or have them done? If you did and it wasn't through a contractor certified in lead-based paint practices you *could* have an issue. If the child has "elevated lead levels" and you have rehab work done that "disturbed" the paint without the proper precautions you'd want to find a lawyer to talk it through with. I would also guess that you'd have to have current tenants sign another disclosure. There's different language for the presumption of lead-based paint pre-1978 and known lead-based paint. It will also now mandate the use of lead certified contractors when dealing with those lead paint areas. That said: I'm not a lawyer, review the EPA website about landlord obligations, and in your shoes I'd pay for an hour of an attorneys time no matter what.
  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    @Nathan Gesner  That's a good point.  And I see that most of the regulatory information deals with safety during renovations.  Fortunately, no work was done on the unit or in the common areas.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron Hurst From what you're saying it sounds like there's no doubt it's a mini-shake down.  I know California is a very "tenant friendly" state.  I have zero idea how Pennsylvania is when it comes to these matters.  I also have heard of some areas having almost a cottage industry of lawyers that find residents with children in pre-1978 properties and having them tested.  It's far from uncommon to have a child with "elevated lead levels" regardless of their living conditions.  Think about the stories that hit every Christmas about a Chinese toy factory using lead-based paint.  Not to say that lead poisoning because of pre-1978 housing isn't a serious problem, it is, but that doesn't mean lawyers won't take advantage and manipulate the situation.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y

    If this was in the City of Philadelphia, when tenants have children under a certain age, a special lead dust wipe test must be performed by a certified tech before you are permitted to rent to such a family; and in the City of Philadelphia, the federal lead disclosure isn't enough because Philadelphia has some additional statements that are required to be part of the lead disclosure. And recently, Philadelphia added a requirement to disclose whether the water supply piping into the house is lead.

    So you do have to be a bit more specific than just saying it is in Pennsylvania.

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Usually there is an attorney in the area that specializes in these cases on both sides.  I would consult them.

  • Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    Anyone have a Philadelphia Lead Swiping Service they can recommend? The one I use is out of commission.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe White:

    Anyone have a Philadelphia Lead Swiping Service they can recommend? The one I use is out of commission.

    I haven't used any of these two (one bedroom units that I own have not had children under age yet), they are HAPCO advertisers:

    1. F&L Lead Dust Inspectors

    2. Brian Boyle

    Not allowed to post phone numbers or email addresses here.

  • Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 515 posts · 196 votes
    9y

    @Steve Babiak BP wouldn't be 1/2 as valuable - at least to Philadelphians, without you! You're a huge resource on here.  Thanks!

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    @Steve Babiak My rentals are in central PA, not in the city.  It wouldn't surprise me if regulation eventually moves in the same direction as Philadelphia (or here in California)... but it's not there... yet.

  • Investor · Milton, PA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    Hey @Aaron Hurst, interested in seeing how this turns out as well as what town your rentals are centered around?

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    9y

    @Aaron Hurst What part of central PA?

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    @Christian Bors @Shayne Brescia Lebanon city.  I'm having a lead-certified contractor inspect the unit (while the tenants are still there) to plot out any potential short-term or long-term course of action, but no news otherwise.  I'll check back.

  • Investor · Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2012 · 627 posts · 204 votes
    9y

    It is illegal for contractors to do lead-based paint inspections in California!  Since 1993, California has had a license (Certification) for lead inspectors/risk assessors.  I own an environmental consulting company and have had that certification since then. You need to find a god consultant (too small of a project for my company), and have the unit (or better the entire building) properly inspected.  Lead-based paint in good condition a nd probably covered by many layers of non-lead paint is only a hazard if disturbed or deteriorated. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y

    So let's get back to what the very first post in this topic contained.

    A children's doctor "ordered" the lead paint test??? First, this tells me that some child in that family had blood tested for lead levels and that the results showed elevated lead levels; not a good thing for anybody involved. The other thing is do you have the disclosure form that clearly shows the tenant declined to have any testing for lead paint performed prior to signing the lease?

    I don't know whether it can delay eviction; I suspect you could argue that it should not, since the tenant is indicating the rental unit is not safe for the child(ren) so they should want to get out of there ASAP to someplace safer. 

    I would not be surprised to hear of the tenant filing a lawsuit due to health issues stemming from this.

    In the future, you will have to complete the lead disclosure differently, since you now have test results showing lead paint is present; that must be disclosed and test results provided to prospective tenants. Whether that makes the unit more difficult to rent is hard to say. I verbally tell tenant prospects that no testing has been done, but they should assume that there is some lead based paint on the surfaces, covered by some non-lead based paint. Never had anybody request to have a test done for presence of lead based paint even after that, and have not had any lead based paint problems to date. As somebody else posted, it is recognized that once lead-based paint is covered by non-lead based paint, the hazard is reduced. Chewing on the woodwork is probably what your tenant's child did ...

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