Am I The Tenant From Hell? (With Apologies For the Length)

[Account Closed]

Background: I have one rental property and recently sold another. For both, I outsourced the management, as they were in TX and we now live in AZ.  Up until recently, we were renting in AZ, but just bought a place. 

So, I have some experience, but I won't pass myself off as an expert. That's why I am here, to learn from you guys.

As stated above, we recently moved out of a rental. The landlord did the walk through after we left. According to the lease, she had two weeks to do so. That was probably a mistake on both of our parts. Now, we got her bill. She says we owe her 3600 in addition to withholding our deposit of 1500. That is a level of carnage I normally associate with fraternities, roller derby and the two hours after my great uncle found out they were taking "Touched By An Angel" off the air.

This isn't entirely a shock, as we knew we inflicted some damage. That being said, we think it's too high. I have talked to two property managers I know, one of whom rented our former residence out for us and has a pretty good idea of how we treat a house. Also, FWIW, my wife is a graphic designer/architect and I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it sooner if we were living in the degree of squalor this bill indicates. Anyway, the read of these PM friends on the situation jibes with mine, but I want to get as broad a swath as possible when it comes to opinions. One  note: we were in the house for about two and a half years. Summary of the bigger items:

1) 2900 for completely repainting the interior. She claims our kids drew on the wall and that there was an excessive amount of nail holes for paintings.  Our take:  kids did draw in a few places, but we didn't hang an excessive amount of paintings, so spackle and touch up. My wife even asked about the paint type before move out so she could match it and never heard back. And even on the off chance it requires a repaint, after 30 months, a repaint might be the cost of doing business.

2) 1300 for complete carpet replacement. This one could get dicey. We left a definite stain (literally, it was wood stain) in a bedroom. Again, guilty as charged. Additionally, we had the carpet professionally cleaned upon move out and it buckled. There were serious waves, no question. However, it seems this is a result of bad carpet, which I told her. She claims it survived a previous cleaning, which may be true. However, I have been told by one of my PM people that it's not unusual for bad carpet to last for a cleaning or two. She said she replaced it with the cheapest carpet she could find, and I told her she was repeating the same mistake. Also, since I clearly admit we owe her something for the stained room, she is claiming that she can't match the carpet, so it's an all or nothing deal for her. To top it off, she just seems to think that the carpet was in better condition from the start than my wife does.

3) Damaged tiles on patio due to rust from kettebells. She didn't charge us for this, which she is using as a pretense that she is doing us some kind of favor. Six or seven tiles are damaged, she doesn't want to replace all of them, but like the carpet, she views it as an all or nothing expense. So, she believes that the 3000 a new patio would cost is giving her latitude to hold our feet to the fire for painting and carpet and every other piece of minor damage to the house. It should also be noted that a leaking spigot that we repeatedly told her about has resulted in cracked tiles. If the patio is not perfect, it's not all due to us.

So, negotiations have been all over the map. She immediately buckled when I balked at the charges and said she would just charge us the deposit. I actually took the unusual step of agreeing that we owed her (we probably do) and it would be worth the sleep at night to feel like I did right by her and offered her an additional $800. She agreed, I told her to think it over, and now, after talking to her daughter who is also a property manager (our landlord self-manages, she might be better off hiring her daughter), she is back to asking for the full amount.

So, we are at an impasse. If I'm wrong, I honestly want to know. But, at the end of the day, I think she wants a pristine property and isn't allowing for enough wear and tear. She's got our deposit and likely deserves it. However, I think she and I both know that if she wants more, she's going to have to go to court and that isn't likely. I'm inclined to off her 1000 more and say that's as good as it gets.

Also, she's been pretty reasonable overall and I believe she's attempting to bargain in good faith. And she has photos and invoices for a lot of the damage to the wall. So, while she documented it well, it's still a lot of tick-tacky stuff. Scuffed baseboards, worn paint from pictures and nails in walls.

One final thing: we are in the process of getting back around 2400 (on top of deposit) at a pace of 200 a month from one of our tenants (completely handled by our PM), so I know these things can happen and don't want to be a hypocrite. I need to drill down the reasons we charged so much and will do so next week. But, I think enough about our manager's integrity to know she was likely fair with them. If they are out that much, they must have deserved it.

If you read this much, thanks. If you can give me advice that either helps me stand firm or come correct, I'd love to hear it, Best wishes and Merry Christmas!

[Stephen E.]

@Account Closed You asked if you are wrong, in my view you are. In the course of your discussion you admit to extensive damage to this rental property. If I was the landlord and had before and after photographs and a signed inspection report I would give you a short time to pay and after that go to Small Claims and let a judge sort it out and award a court judgment against you. Holes everywhere, writing on walls, stained and otherwise damaged carpets and broken tiles sounds pretty expensive to me. Suggestions such as complete repainting is a cost of doing business "after 30 months" do not help your case. You outsourced management of your own property and may not have turned a unit over and witnessed condition at the end of leases. In my experience in turning over units what you describe is not normal I am afraid.