Needy tenants and home warranty

Needy tenants and home warranty

Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 11 votes

I have my first rental property and my first tenant is a needy one. He literally calls at least once a week about a problem. Some were legit, like a running toilet. Others, not so much; such as his wife thinking there was leak under the master bath sink but when we and the plumber went over there, it was bone dry. Have also called about stinky disposal, clogged toilets, hearing a "huge" animal in the attic that turned out to just be some mice, etc. The list goes on...

As this is my first property, I read a lot and tried to do as much research as I could prior to going into it but I'm admittedly also learning as I go. 

We've already told him we're not renewing his lease and in fact, if he finds a new place before his lease ends, we wouldn't worry about the 60 day notice. First question, how should I handle this tenant and all his repair requests until he moves out?

Second question is once he's out and I'm seeking new tenants, is there any way to sift out those "needy" type of tenants or is it luck of the draw?

Third, is there a way to discourage getting unnecessary repair requests? A friend suggested getting a home warranty and require that the tenant pays for the deductible while we pay for repairs that end up being required. Is that a good idea? If so, how do you state that in your lease terms?

Appreciate any and all information/suggestions! Thanks!

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Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

I'd start with open and honest communication. We let tenants know when and how to contact us. We are all about providing a good product and good service. Set usual work hours and clarify the best way to contact you and an alternative way as well. Pick at least one day a week when you focus on rental property business.

Explain to the tenant what constitutes an emergency or urgent need vs what can wait. Answer the calls/texts right away with an appropriate response, or let them go to voice mail for screening prior to your response.

Let tenants know you do not have a 24-hr maintenance crew, that it's just you and your vendors, so you would appreciate their understanding about non-urgent matters. I love this line... "Thank you for letting me know, I'll make sure that gets the attention it deserves."

When you start out with a property, it's likely there will be things that need attention that were off your radar. The first tenant is often the first to discover these things. Inspecting a property is quite different from living in a property. Your first tenant may actually be doing you a service by informing you of these items.

How long has this tenant been renting from you? Once a week is not unusual in the first three months. Those tenants who care about the property and their comfort, enough to let you know when something is bothering them, are often the ones that settle into become good long-term tenants. You may perceive them as needy, but you can change that perception and save the tenancy if you work at it. Try to understand the reason for their calls. Help them to understand your management style and why you might respond to a request in the manner you do.

Remember, whether a need is real or perceived, it is real to the tenant. Treat their requests with respect and maintain reasonable boundaries. Of the items you mention above, I see none as out-of-line concerns.

1. Running toilet - adjust the flapper or handle. Teach the tenant about how to use the water shut-offs at each fixture and at the water main.

2. Leak under master bath sink - could be a leak that comes and goes, or something that spilled there and dried up. If it had been a serious plumbing leak you would be lucky they called you. It's best practice to look into the matter before calling a professional, unless they have given you sufficient information that it appears to be an emergency.

3. Stinky garbage disposal - are you aware that without proper and ongoing cleaning garbage disposals can emit a foul odor. Before each tenancy, I make sure to unplug the garbage disposal and give it a good scrub with a scouring sponge, especially the underside of the lip at the opening. Then I plug it in again. Then I put a half cup of baking soda and a half cup of white vinegar in and let it foam and wait 10 minutes. Then I run hot water down the disposal and turn it on. Check out these two articles for keeping garbage disposals fresh and teach your tenants these tips!

http://www.thekitchn.com/instinkerator-what-to-do-...

http://www.annarbor.com/home-garden/garbage-dispos...

4. Clogged toilets - this is a legitimate call. Tend to it and then teach your tenant how to prevent clogs in the first place. Make sure they have a toilet plunger and know how to use it. Include a clause in your rental agreement about plumbing fixtures and how to keep them clear.

Here's an example of a clause from our rental agreement:

DRAIN STOPPAGES.As of the date of this Agreement, Landlord warrants that the dwelling’s sewage drains are in good working order and that they will accept the normal household waste for which they were designed. They will not accept things such as flushable wipes, personal wipes, baby wipes, paper diapers, sanitary napkins, tampons, wads of toilet paper, dental floss, balls of hair, paper towels, newspapers, grease, oil, table scraps, bones, clothing, rags, sand, dirt, rocks, or children’s toys. Tenant agrees to pay for clearing the drains of any and all stoppages except those, which the plumber who is called to clear the stoppage will attest to in writing, were caused by defective plumbing, tree roots, or a result of weather.Tenant agrees to keep on hand and properly use a plunger when necessary to unclog drains and to prevent water overflow from toilet, sinks and bathtub. Tenant agrees to notify Landlord in a timely manner of drain stoppages that they are unable to clear themselves.

5. Hearing a "huge" animal in the attic that turned out to be mice - In the middle of the night, when most of the world is asleep, the sound of scurrying mice or rats in the attic or walls can indeed sound like something significantly big. Now you have an opportunity to address the rodent issues, which indeed you should do before they cause a health hazard and before your property is exposed to more damage. Until you know for sure it's only mice, consider that other pests could have penetrated the attic too... rats, bats, squirrels, possums, etc. Have a good professional pest management company on your team and learn the basics about do-it-yourself pest management too.

-----

Landlording is an art. Most landlords learn as they go. Consider this your training ground. Unless the tenants do something egregious, think twice about giving up so quickly on this tenancy. 

Also, about your friend's ideas... What landlording experience do they have? Don't incentivize the tenant to avoid calling you when there is a need, or you may be looking at problems that go unchecked. Also, the idea about getting a home warranty and expecting the tenant to pay the deductible is not good, IMHO.

As a landlord, you have certain responsibilities. Try to partner with your tenants to make sure your property is well maintained. Here is an example from our rental agreement that outlines some of how we do this:

MAINTENANCE OF PREMISES.Landlord will maintain all electrical, plumbing, heating, and other facilities and appliances supplied by Landlord in good working order.Landlord will perform periodic inspections of the premises, no less than once a year, for the purpose of property maintenance and repair.Landlord will notify Tenant in advance of the inspection. Tenant agrees to allow Landlord timely access to premises to do maintenance and repair.Tenant will notify Landlord in a timely manner of any damages or problems as they arise, including damages caused by Tenant, malfunction of appliances or fixtures, and water/moisture leaks and spots.Tenant will take care of the premises, keeping them clean and clear of debris. Tenant will use appliances and fixtures in accordance with manufacturer recommendations.

Mindy, I hope this information and my suggestions are helpful for you. Take a listen to BP Podcast #83 for more landlording tips. All the best to you. Good luck!

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  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    I have heard of a service fee being used for every maintenance request, but I don't want standing water because the tenant didn't want a $1.95 fee assessment.

    Sound like you need to get the property ship-shape before rerenting it.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Our lease states plumbing system is in good order and free of clogs at move-in and tenant is responsible for clogged toilets, sinks, disposals, unless plumber finds it is actually defective equipment or problem not caused by improper use; home is free of pests and tenant is responsible for maintaining pest-free (although if they call within first 30 days we will treat, we are single family detached units so they can't blame it on the other units).  Still, you do have "stupid trips" every once in a while.   I'd rather check out a leak that's not there than the time they didn't call and the hot water heater flooded the carpet in the room next to it.   Maybe check it out yourself in the future before you hire a plumber as you can probably just turn the water off to that sink until you make the appointment.  For us, we expect stupid trips when we send them a notice of rent increase as they usually get picky after they get the notice.  We've also worked out a system where we give them a few weeks notice before we inspect yearly and ask them to make a list of any items they would like us to take care of when we're there.  It cuts down on the "stupid trips" immensely, and the longer term tenants know we'll handle the small stuff when we're there so only call on the major issues and save the minor ones for when we inspect.

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    We fixed the running toilet but the other stuff weren't issues before they moved in. We had an inspection done prior to closing, had all the repairs from it fixed by the sellers and had it professionally deep cleaned before they moved in.

    I agree I'd rather know about some of the "stupid" stuff than not know about major things and I expected getting some of that. Getting 1-2 calls per week and being at the property on average of once a week for 'something' for a clean, well maintained property was much more than I had anticipated.

  • Investor · East Grand Forks, MN · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 64 votes
    9y

    Mindy,

    1st of all congratulations on your 1st rental property.  It can be daunting and a lot of hard work, but as you learn, you will become better equipped to handle each hurdle.

    So in taking care of high maintenance tenants, my 1st thought is to always remember that they are people and bridges.  So be professional, polite but not  a doormat.  You want to be a good landlord but you are not baby sitter.  

    Legally, a lot of what you can or can't do goes per state so I will have to defer to someone with legal knowledge there.  But as for seeking new clients:

    1. Screen heavily
    2. Go with your gut
    3. Put everything you writing.  If it's not in writing it does count.

    As for discouraging repair request, you always have the ability to either comply or not.  Of course there are things that as a good landlord you legally and professionally need to do, but if they want something not required in your state than you can deny their request.

    Check this out for and overview of Landlord / Tenant Law.

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-la...

    Best wishes,

    Glenn

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    All tenants need to be trained by their landlord. Needy tenants back off when you ignore their unimportant requests. When they call you respond to repairs everything else you give the standard reply, "I'll look into it" then ignore the request.

    With repair issues, when you have them on the phone, try to talk them through the repair themselves. 

    Make sure you do thorough quarterly inspections and you will avoid a lot of calls.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    I'd start with open and honest communication. We let tenants know when and how to contact us. We are all about providing a good product and good service. Set usual work hours and clarify the best way to contact you and an alternative way as well. Pick at least one day a week when you focus on rental property business.

    Explain to the tenant what constitutes an emergency or urgent need vs what can wait. Answer the calls/texts right away with an appropriate response, or let them go to voice mail for screening prior to your response.

    Let tenants know you do not have a 24-hr maintenance crew, that it's just you and your vendors, so you would appreciate their understanding about non-urgent matters. I love this line... "Thank you for letting me know, I'll make sure that gets the attention it deserves."

    When you start out with a property, it's likely there will be things that need attention that were off your radar. The first tenant is often the first to discover these things. Inspecting a property is quite different from living in a property. Your first tenant may actually be doing you a service by informing you of these items.

    How long has this tenant been renting from you? Once a week is not unusual in the first three months. Those tenants who care about the property and their comfort, enough to let you know when something is bothering them, are often the ones that settle into become good long-term tenants. You may perceive them as needy, but you can change that perception and save the tenancy if you work at it. Try to understand the reason for their calls. Help them to understand your management style and why you might respond to a request in the manner you do.

    Remember, whether a need is real or perceived, it is real to the tenant. Treat their requests with respect and maintain reasonable boundaries. Of the items you mention above, I see none as out-of-line concerns.

    1. Running toilet - adjust the flapper or handle. Teach the tenant about how to use the water shut-offs at each fixture and at the water main.

    2. Leak under master bath sink - could be a leak that comes and goes, or something that spilled there and dried up. If it had been a serious plumbing leak you would be lucky they called you. It's best practice to look into the matter before calling a professional, unless they have given you sufficient information that it appears to be an emergency.

    3. Stinky garbage disposal - are you aware that without proper and ongoing cleaning garbage disposals can emit a foul odor. Before each tenancy, I make sure to unplug the garbage disposal and give it a good scrub with a scouring sponge, especially the underside of the lip at the opening. Then I plug it in again. Then I put a half cup of baking soda and a half cup of white vinegar in and let it foam and wait 10 minutes. Then I run hot water down the disposal and turn it on. Check out these two articles for keeping garbage disposals fresh and teach your tenants these tips!

    http://www.thekitchn.com/instinkerator-what-to-do-...

    http://www.annarbor.com/home-garden/garbage-dispos...

    4. Clogged toilets - this is a legitimate call. Tend to it and then teach your tenant how to prevent clogs in the first place. Make sure they have a toilet plunger and know how to use it. Include a clause in your rental agreement about plumbing fixtures and how to keep them clear.

    Here's an example of a clause from our rental agreement:

    DRAIN STOPPAGES.As of the date of this Agreement, Landlord warrants that the dwelling’s sewage drains are in good working order and that they will accept the normal household waste for which they were designed. They will not accept things such as flushable wipes, personal wipes, baby wipes, paper diapers, sanitary napkins, tampons, wads of toilet paper, dental floss, balls of hair, paper towels, newspapers, grease, oil, table scraps, bones, clothing, rags, sand, dirt, rocks, or children’s toys. Tenant agrees to pay for clearing the drains of any and all stoppages except those, which the plumber who is called to clear the stoppage will attest to in writing, were caused by defective plumbing, tree roots, or a result of weather.Tenant agrees to keep on hand and properly use a plunger when necessary to unclog drains and to prevent water overflow from toilet, sinks and bathtub. Tenant agrees to notify Landlord in a timely manner of drain stoppages that they are unable to clear themselves.

    5. Hearing a "huge" animal in the attic that turned out to be mice - In the middle of the night, when most of the world is asleep, the sound of scurrying mice or rats in the attic or walls can indeed sound like something significantly big. Now you have an opportunity to address the rodent issues, which indeed you should do before they cause a health hazard and before your property is exposed to more damage. Until you know for sure it's only mice, consider that other pests could have penetrated the attic too... rats, bats, squirrels, possums, etc. Have a good professional pest management company on your team and learn the basics about do-it-yourself pest management too.

    -----

    Landlording is an art. Most landlords learn as they go. Consider this your training ground. Unless the tenants do something egregious, think twice about giving up so quickly on this tenancy. 

    Also, about your friend's ideas... What landlording experience do they have? Don't incentivize the tenant to avoid calling you when there is a need, or you may be looking at problems that go unchecked. Also, the idea about getting a home warranty and expecting the tenant to pay the deductible is not good, IMHO.

    As a landlord, you have certain responsibilities. Try to partner with your tenants to make sure your property is well maintained. Here is an example from our rental agreement that outlines some of how we do this:

    MAINTENANCE OF PREMISES.Landlord will maintain all electrical, plumbing, heating, and other facilities and appliances supplied by Landlord in good working order.Landlord will perform periodic inspections of the premises, no less than once a year, for the purpose of property maintenance and repair.Landlord will notify Tenant in advance of the inspection. Tenant agrees to allow Landlord timely access to premises to do maintenance and repair.Tenant will notify Landlord in a timely manner of any damages or problems as they arise, including damages caused by Tenant, malfunction of appliances or fixtures, and water/moisture leaks and spots.Tenant will take care of the premises, keeping them clean and clear of debris. Tenant will use appliances and fixtures in accordance with manufacturer recommendations.

    Mindy, I hope this information and my suggestions are helpful for you. Take a listen to BP Podcast #83 for more landlording tips. All the best to you. Good luck!

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for all your advice!

    I'm not trying to push away my responsibility to provide a safe, clean and well-running place. We do want to attract and keep good tenants. Maybe the word "legitimate" was not the best word. I feel like the tenant has been like another child. For example, my own kids who are 6 and 8 years old, know how to unclog a toilet with a plunger. They know what a running toilet sounds like and what to do about it. This tenant just didn't know any of that stuff. Has called us because he locked himself out. Called because he didn't know how to change a light bulb. There was also drama with the neighbors because he was hogging the shared visitor parking space that's between our rental and the next door neighbor.

    I think I need to set some expectations and rules about when and how to contact us. The tenant treats every concern as an emergency. The calls and texts come at all times. For example, the mouse call came at 2am. If he calls me and I don't pick up right away, he immediately calls my husband.

    Our plan was to try to acquire another rental property in the next 4-6 months but this tenant has us questioning whether we're in over our heads.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Mindy Bowden

    Tenant mentality can vary. I've long since realized that "common sense" is not "common". So we established a comprehensive list of property rules and we work with tenants to teach them what they don't know. Not all tenants have the attitude and aptitude to be successful in their tenancy, but with some guidance most can adapt.

    You're right about the need to set up expectations and property rules. You can significantly reduce the drama factor if you do. We uploaded our Property Rules to the BP FilePlace. Go to Tools > File Place > Other Documents > Property Rules (find it by looking for my name). Feel free to borrow ideas from it and modify it for your own use if you wish.

    I'd pay the tenant a friendly visit and share with him your expectations. You two need to get on the same page or mutually decide to part ways. If you treat the tenant like a child, he will act like a child. If you treat him with respect and ask for respect in return, you will probably get it.

    Is it possible this tenant has a cognitive disability or simply lacks the experience or education you expect him to have? Was this tenant living at the property at the time you purchased it, or did you select this tenant? In any case, be sure you have a good Marketing Plan, good Rental Criteria and a good Screening Process in place for when you have your next vacancy.

    We've had well educated tenants accidentally lock themselves out. We've had some tenants need our help in changing a light bulb too (fixture too high or unfamiliar to the tenant). Not enough to ruffle my feathers, but enough to give me pause and use it as a teaching moment. :-)

    Then again, landlording is not for everyone. Find your comfort zone and create a management style and a business model that works well for you. Or, let it go.

  • Real Estate Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 83 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    If he pays on time and is not trashing the place, you could do a lot worse.  I have had 4 properties for 3 years and found there are three 'break in' periods:. One for the property the first time it is rented.  There will be maintenance issues that won't be discovered until a tenant lives in it.  This can cycle over the seasons as well.  Furnace issues come up in winter, drainage during the wet season, etc.  Second, is a new tenant.  Power goes out, and the stove locks itself.  Or the tenant doesnt know how to work the thermostat. Third is new landlord break in period.  How do you react emotionally to these things?  

    I would recommend considering a good property manager.  It's like insurance.  Mine has been in business for 30 years and every month it becomes clear how valuable her experience is.  I now manage one property myself, and three she manages.  

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    @Marcia Maynard, thanks for the document! That will be really useful when it's time to find a new tenant. And I'm realizing now that you're correct in stating that "common sense" is not "common".

    It's possible the tenant has a cognitive disability but if so, it's not apparent. Some of it is lack of experience/education and I get the feeling that for whatever reason, he believes we're just sitting at home waiting to help him out. To be clear, he's not the only adult living there. He has a wife, an aunt and uncle who lives there with him. But the time he got locked out, he doesn't call one of them, he calls us. Early this month, when rent was due, he was "too busy" to drop it off and asked if we could meet him at his work to pick it up. I live less than 10 minutes away, they know when rent is due, and I find it hard to believe that four adults can't find 20 minutes in a week's time to drop off their rent. I say "drop off" because I've offered to help him figure out an online, direct deposit option several times, claims he'll look into it, but never does because "he's too busy" so he's always just dropped it off at my house.

    We selected this tenant ourselves and everything checked out on paper. No background issues, enough income, paid his bills on time, nothing that raised red flags. So I'm wondering when I'm speaking with potential tenants, are there certain questions I should ask to get a feel for how they'd be as a tenant besides what the apps, credit and background checks will show?

    @Erik Kubec, and you are correct that it could be worse. He does pay on time and it appears that they're maintaining the place reasonably. 

    And that's interesting about the cycles. I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense.

    Question about going with a property manager, for a place with a needy tenant such as this who calls at least once a week, would the management company charge me for handling each call that he makes? Or is it a set fee every month, they just handle whatever comes in and then I just get charged if actual repairs are needed? How does all that work? 

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Mindy Bowden Bless your heart.

    So you have four tenants in this household. If they are all adults, age 18 or older, they should all be named in the rental agreement as "jointly and severally liable". Arrange a meeting with the entire household. Go over the rental agreement with them and establish your boundaries. Discuss what to do in each of the situations the "needy tenant" brought to you. Ask them to help each other to resolve issues as they arise and contact you only when necessary. Help out by defining what "necessary" means.

    If your rental agreement states when rent is due and how to pay it, then enforce the terms of your rental agreement. If it doesn't, clarify this for the entire group. Be firm and fair. My answer to his question about rent would be "That would be difficult for me to do. It's not an option."  Then restate what you need him to do. If he protests, then say "When you signed your lease, you agreed to pay rent in this manner _____(quote from rental agreement.) So talk it over with your family and let me know what you plan to do." If he doesn't budge you can always state..."This is not working for me, and it seems it's not working for you either, so let's talk about a move-out plan."

    I'm curious... When did this family move-in and when is the end of their lease? When did you tell them you would not be renewing their lease and what reason did you give them at that time? Did you put it in writing that you would not be renewing their lease? What incentive do they have now to NOT bother you with calls twice a week?

  • Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2016 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    @Marcia Maynard,

    We've discussed a move-out plan and they are moving out the end of this month. We came to a mutual agreement that our rental isn't really the best fit for their needs anymore and there doesn't seem to be any grudges or animosity. I sent an email detailing what we've hashed out afterwards and they confirmed. I know they've begun looking for a new place; another landlord contacted us yesterday for a reference.

    We've relisted the place and I've modified the house rules document you suggested and added that to our arsenal. I'm providing that to potential tenants right from the beginning to try to weed out any that can't comply or if there are concerns about any of it, we can discuss before any signing of a lease.

    We've learned a lot from this experience and hopefully, the second time around will go smoother.

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