First-time landlord in Buffalo, NY multifamily unit

First-time landlord in Buffalo, NY multifamily unit

Investor · Orchard Park, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 4 votes

Hello everyone!  I am new to this community and have read many of the forums as well as taken part in one of the podcasts.  I guess I'll get right to it... 

I am purchasing my first multifamily property in the Buffalo, NY area that I am going to be renting out.  It is only two units (upper & lower) but that is plenty for me while I'm just starting out.  I close on it in about a month (about a week before Christmas) and I figured now is the time to start asking questions. 

First off, there are tenants that come with the property, but they are on a month-to-month verbal agreement.  Meaning they have no signed rental agreement (which I plan to change once I close on the property).  They also occupy the apartments without a security deposit.  Is this common? It seems to me that this would be a great mistake.  

Anyway, I plan to put in place a signed rental agreement, keeping with the month-to-month, and inform them that I plan to collect a security deposit.  Now I know everything has be given a month in advance, so I'll basically be living on their current verbal agreement for a month (fingers crossed it doesn't have any crazy stipulations).  I don't want to charge them all of the security deposit up front because I don't want to give them a terrible hardship, especially around the holiday season, and since they already occupy the space I think it would be risky for me to ask for a large sum and not expect them to wreck the place and move out.  I'll probably just add small installments into the first three or four months.  Does anyone see a problem with this? 

So now I'm having trouble figuring out what to charge for a security deposit.  I've done some research and see that NY state does not have strict guidelines for this, but that it's typically one month's rent.  With that being said, I'm kind of in a pickle about the rent.  Currently both units seem to rent for $100 lower than other similar units in the area.  Now, raising the rent $100 seems like it would be a big leap, on top of the security deposit, but my dad had, what I would consider, a great idea.  He thinks I should do the monthly installments for the security deposit (after the holidays of course) for the first several months, and inform the tenants that when those installments are through (whatever they're going to be?) that the rent will then increase $100 in each unit.  I understand that this would involve some risk in the form of the tenants possibly moving out, which is why I might wait until I receive some of the security deposit and then tell them 30 days before rent increase.  In this instance I would have some of the security deposit in case they got mad and decided to leave after damaging the property.  Is this too sneaky?  I don't want a bad relationship with my tenants, but they're also not people that I did my own background on so I'm not sure what they're like and I'd like to protect my investment.  Do you think raising the rent by $100 is too much of a burden on the tenants? Again, I have no idea what their situations are.

That brings me to another possibility... getting new tenants.  It is probably not the best time to look for new tenants, but as long as one unit stayed I could work it out, because I'd update the vacant unit for a month or two and then hopefully get it rented out in the beginning of spring.  I would actually almost prefer this for one of the units because I can see the potential it has and I am itching to get my hands dirty for it.  I wouldn't put too much money into it, probably paint the kitchen cabinets and move some other things around in the kitchen, update the bathroom (possibly a gut-job), update the fireplace and flooring throughout, and paint the other rooms. I'm thinking around $5000 or so.  Enough to get a good tenant in that will want to stay, but not too much loss in case that tenant isn't as good as I think from the start. 

Lastly, how do you go about setting up a meeting with your new tenants when you're typically the new person in the relationship but you're also in charge of the terms? Should I send a letter in the mail, drop a note off with some holiday cookies after closing with my google phone number, etc....? And do you meet with both units at once or separately?  I'm thinking separately so that I remain in control of the meeting.  Any other suggestions? 

Thanks for your time in reading this and I appreciate any responses it may generate.  It turned out a bit more lengthy than I had planned. I hope everyone enjoys their holidays! :) 

Meghan

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Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y

IF it were me I would set up a meet with each after taking ownership. I would not bother with the security deposit nor would I be concerned about upset tenants doing damage. Tenants damaging properties out of revenge is not typical behaviour for the vast majority of people in the world.

I would give notice that they will be required to sign a M2M and it will include a $100/month rent increase. They will not be in a rush to leave and if they shop around will likely decide to stay if they like it where they are. Tenants always expect a rent increase with new landlords. Use the added $100/month to build up a reserve fund to cover damages. Just consider it a non refundable security deposit for your existing tenants.

As for renovating, if one leaves or when the time comes to Reno you should never require more than a month vacancy to do the work. If you can not complete it yourself in that time hire contractors. Time is money, never waste time creating a unnecessary vacancy. The rental income lost to a extended vacancy rather than hiring contractors is a unnecessary waste.  Once you get your head around the fact that you are operating a business and realise every decision is based only on money you will be financially farther ahead.

In the mean time you need to study, learn, memorise the landlord tenant regulations. Until you know the rules you are not operating a business you are simply waiting for a disaster. Always keep a copy with you and you will always have the answer to any question.

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  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    IF it were me I would set up a meet with each after taking ownership. I would not bother with the security deposit nor would I be concerned about upset tenants doing damage. Tenants damaging properties out of revenge is not typical behaviour for the vast majority of people in the world.

    I would give notice that they will be required to sign a M2M and it will include a $100/month rent increase. They will not be in a rush to leave and if they shop around will likely decide to stay if they like it where they are. Tenants always expect a rent increase with new landlords. Use the added $100/month to build up a reserve fund to cover damages. Just consider it a non refundable security deposit for your existing tenants.

    As for renovating, if one leaves or when the time comes to Reno you should never require more than a month vacancy to do the work. If you can not complete it yourself in that time hire contractors. Time is money, never waste time creating a unnecessary vacancy. The rental income lost to a extended vacancy rather than hiring contractors is a unnecessary waste.  Once you get your head around the fact that you are operating a business and realise every decision is based only on money you will be financially farther ahead.

    In the mean time you need to study, learn, memorise the landlord tenant regulations. Until you know the rules you are not operating a business you are simply waiting for a disaster. Always keep a copy with you and you will always have the answer to any question.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Meghan Sullivan 

    Your in good hands on BP smart move asking for support in your new rental business.

    The most important factor above all is yes to know your rental tenant laws for your state, so google it, find out if you have a housing association for landlords that has resources for you to use.

    As for security deposits,, I'd forego asking for that,, unless they have a pet.. and I'd make sure if you don't have any pets, you don't permit any pets in the future..and put that in you new lease. 

    As for rent, I'd do the increase as you thought, with the proper 30 notice and you can give longer for that if you want to make them more prepared.. 

    Id ask to do a walk thru and take a condition check sheet for your own purposes. 

    If you feel it's necessary in the to charge a damage deposit you can always do that, right away or down the road with proper notice. and give them plenty of time to come up with a nominal security deposit like 1/2 the rent.. for current tenants.

    Better to steady the boat right now so you can steer it than capsize it.

  • Investor · Orchard Park, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Thank you both for your responses! I was not expecting to hear back from anyone so quickly.  

    I guess my main question now would be why would I not get a security deposit at this point?  If I understand the situation correctly, that would be my only security blanket for either a tenant that decides to leave without paying their last month's rent, or does some intentional damage to the property prior to leaving.  I understand that in most situations neither of these scenarios are common, but is it not better to be safe than sorry?  

    I'm just trying to understand why you would recommend not getting a security deposit.  Is it mainly because they already live in the property and it would be too much of a hardship, or do you stand by this with new tenants moving in to your places also?  Thank you again for your feedback! 

    I also came up with another couple of questions.  

    1. I believe that one of the tenants runs a "business" out of her unit.  It appears that she may cut hair, since she has a salon chair and other equipment set aside in one room off of the kitchen.  Anything that I've read has stated to not allow a business be run from a rental unit due to the extra liability that I could incur.  Is this something that you agree with? 

    I've gotten advice from someone that I should simply put it in the month-to-month rental agreement and whether she reads it or not is on her.  If something happens to one of her customers and they try to sue me on it would I be covered since the contract stated no businesses? Or would that liability be on me anyway since it would probably be obvious that I'm aware a business is being run from the property?

    2. This question is in regards to lawn maintenance.  The unit is a double (upper and lower) and the lower unit has a back deck that allows them direct access to the back yard.  There is also a bit of grass in the front yard, which they also have a front door to a small front stoop.  The upper unit's only entrance is on the side, where the lower unit also has access to.  Would it be fair to put lawn mowing and maintenance as the responsibility of the lower unit tenant in their rental agreement? If so, I would purchase a mower, make sure  there was a place to store it and service it yearly.  I simply do not want the hassle of having to go to the property every week or so in the summer to mow the lawn myself, on top of having to maintain my own property.  If I included this in the rental agreement do you think that I should take a nominal amount off of the monthly rent during the spring and summer months? If so, what would be a reasonable amount.  Any other suggestions would be welcome also.  

    Thanks for your time!

  • Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
    9y

    @Meghan Sullivan

    Congrats on getting out there and making a deal! I'm going to play naysayer here. Not to talk you out of buying the place, but to prepare you for some potential issues. Some things to consider:

    I'm afraid in this case, you have to be prepared to be the bad guy, and possibly lose the tenants. When I'm buying a small mutli-family property, I price in the expectation of evicting any tenants. In this case, having no security deposits and no leases makes that all the more likely. Run your numbers with the expectation to have to go through eviction. Hopefully you won't, but just in case you do, you will be prepared. I would get leases (probably month-to-month is preferable) and security deposits as soon as I close, or even make them a contingent for closing.  I'm also curious to hear the reasoning others disagree with collecting the security deposit. @Deanna McCormick, @Thomas S.: can you elaborate?

    You should definitely not be allowing a tenant to run a business out of a residential unit. Not only is there liability involved, but zoning as well. Unless the property is zoned for residential and commercial, and somehow the tenant can live in the commercial part (never seen that before), you do not want that happening on your watch. It needs to end immediately.

    Ask the tenants what they are actually paying. Since you have nothing in writing, you have no idea if the seller has told you the truth. Considering the other red flags on this deal, I'm guessing you're in for a surprise when they tell you what they pay.

    Try to make the lawn one of the tenant's responsibilities, but I just hire someone to do mine. You should price that in anyway, because if you have any desire to grow, you won't be able to mow all the lawns yourself.

    Are you still within your due diligence period? If so, I would add a lot of this to the contract. Most importantly, you should have signed leases and security deposits before you buy it. With no leases, no security deposits, and and the illegal business, the value of the property is lower than you thought. Use that to negotiate a lower purchase price or some seller concessions.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I'm not that shook about security deposits,, yes I get them, but if it's a current tenant and the only thing lacking is the deposit,, you'll know in a heart beat if they will be a issue... even with a deposit things go south, I guess the deposit is a nice cush but I've learned easy come easy go and I'd rather keep a good tenant than bust them over a deposit and have them irritated and leave.

    Personally I'd risk it.. and if things looked bad in the unit, I'd non-renew, or if they are jerks I non-renew.. I do only mtm leases and don't put up with babysitting anyone that's not with the program.

  • Williamsville, NY · Member since 2015 · 80 posts · 34 votes
    9y

    @Meghan Sullivan first of all welcome to BP from a fellow western New Yorker.  Next as it seems to be the most popular question you asked is regarding the security deposit I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.  I agree with @Kevin Siedlecki that you should be collecting a security deposit if nothing is in place now.  But I would confirm with the tenants that they did not pay a security deposit.  It would be terrible for you to take the sellers word then send a letter to your new tenants requesting one and they tell you they paid one.

    In response to the question on rent increase, you did not say what the current rents are so its had to give you my full input but $100 a month seems like a heavy increase right away.  I know you said you would not mind if one tenant left so you can rehab a unit but a large increase right away might scare both of them off, and as you said you will be going into the holidays and the cold months in this area when its hard to find new tenants.  Just think about the money lost with a vacant unit compared to the unit being undervalued by $100 a month.  Something I just did with inherited tenants that were undervalued on rent and month to month, have them sign a new month to month agreement right away with a small increase right away maybe $30-50.  Then keep them on month to month till spring and if the tenants seem responsible offer them some options (1 year least with an increase of $20-30 a 6 month lease with an increase of $30-40 or if they want to stay month to month an increase of $40-50 more.)  if the tenants are good and willing to stay long term you are better off with small increasing and keeping them in place then losing them and having to rerent the unit.

    As far as updates when either unit is empty be careful not to spend money on updates that will not allow you to raise your rent.  You have to avoid the urge to make improvements because it is something you would want, you are not living in this house you want to maximize your return on any improvement. 

    When it comes to a business being run out of the unit, you need to put an end to it right away, it the contract and actually verbally notifying the tenants, just because it is in the rental agreement even if someone falls that rental paperwork will not stop a lawyer from filing a lawsuit against you.

    And finally in response to the lawn cutting,  you can ask the tenant to take on the responsibility and discuss with them some kind of compensation if they are interested in doing the work.  But I personally would not just automatically put this on a tenant, part of the reason some people rent in the first place is to avoid these responsibilities.  It is ultimately your responsibility and you don't want to lose a good tenant or scare away future tenants with lawn care that you can hire out.

  • Investor · Santa Rosa Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 232 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    Hi @Meghan Sullivan Great name, you must have an Irish mother too :-)

    First, congrats on your first deal! Welcome to BP. Here are my thoughts on the situation. 

    You are absolutely correct in your desire to get a MTM lease in place, collect a security deposit and get everything "above board". I think asking for an increase of $50 -100/month to fund the security deposit is totally fair. 

    I wouldn't worry about raising the rent right now, especially if you want to fund a security deposit.

    As far as setting up a meeting, I would just give each tenant a call and ask to stop by so can introduce yourself and bring the new lease. I would meet with them individually and your idea to bring cookies is a nice way to start off the relationship. The reality is, tenants who have been renting from a loose landlord will probably not be thrilled when you show up with a lease, security deposit and bad news for the hair salon, but welcome to being a landlord :-) Prepare yourself for the worst and you'll always be presently surprised. 

    The hair salon in the kitchen would concern me. From a zoning and liability standpoint, it is a potential nightmare. 

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    You've been given good advise and I wouldn't be scared off , just have the current owner have tenants sign a Estopple  stating what current rent is and status of security deposit.. On date of ownership give them 24 hour notice and have them sign a lease with you. Give the lady that has a hair cut shop another notice that she does not have a proper license to run a hair salon out of her home and your lease does not permit a business to be run out of your apartment building.. and if you see further activity of same, you will be forced to give her immediate notice to vacate. and will notify the city that she is in violation of health law.. yup you call on her,, they'll cite her and give her a cease order.. 

    As far as lawn maintenance,, I'd not worry about that until you get the building.. it's gonna be snow removal your going to have to worry about first

  • Investor · Orchard Park, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Obviously, I'm hoping that it won't have to come to eviction, but I believe I am prepared if need be.  Unfortunately I'm no longer in the negotiation phase, since I have a mortgage commitment and have turned over a deposit. 

    The seller did sign a 'Rented Property Rider' stating what the current rent is, and that he did not collect a security deposit. The current rent does not much make a difference to me anyway since it is a month-to-month rental, besides the possibility of a tenant moving out due to the amount of the new rent.  I haven't decided yet what that will be, but the current rent is $495 for the upper unit and $595 for the lower unit. All appliances are the property of the tenants and there are separate laundry hookups in the basement for each tenant.

    @Michael Karl are you familiar with South Buffalo and what a reasonable rent would be north of the Basilica and south of Tift? The house I am purchasing is halfway down the road and both units are 2 BR 2 BA with a stairway to an unfinished attic (which I'd like to finish at some point for a 3rd unit) for the upper unit, and full unfinished basement as a shared space. I actually know someone else with a rental down the same road, closer to Southpark that rents their upper for $600 and lives in the lower. Even if you can think of a range that would help.

    I will definitely make it known when I meet with both tenants that businesses being run from a rental unit will not be allowed or overlooked by me. I'm glad that I asked that question and received some pro input, because had I not and listened to my friend's suggestion, I could have been lining myself up for failure.

    As far as lawn maintenance goes I'm still undecided, but I do like the idea of waiting a while so it doesn't seem like I'm putting too many new things into play, although I'm unsure what their current situation is. I'm not against giving the tenant a discount however, for my own convenience, if they'd be willing to maintain it, as long as they actually do keep up with it.

    I will have to checkout your blog, as it seems that I am constantly learning things I had not previously given thought to.  I did a fair amount of research prior to making my purchase, but obviously not enough. If nothing else, this will be a good learning experience for me.

    Thank you all for your input!  This is a great community for people like me who have little to no experience in investment properties.  Hopefully one day I can repay your kindness by passing on some of my newly acquired knowledge to another beginner! Much, much further in the future :) I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving! Now on to another Holiday!

  • Investor · Orchard Park, NY · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Also, I didn't mean to put everyone else on the backburner as I made a callout to Michael Karl. I simply wanted to make sure that he responds because he is local and you're all aware that prices differ in different areas.  His area in WNY is probably even drastically different.  Input from anyone on a good estimate for the area is welcomed!!!

  • Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Hi Meghan and Welcome!

    I am new to BP as well. I rent a multi family in North Buffalo. 

    I am not sure about the market in your area but a $100 increase represents 20% if they are paying around $500 a month so it might be a lot. I would just introduce myself first (with cookies!), tell them that you will require a formal lease and mention that you will study the market and make an adjustment on the rent if necessary. 

    It will give you an opportunity to assess the situation and have a first impression on your tenants and confirm if you would like to keep them or not. If you think that they will be good tenants you can have a softer approach and announce them that you will gradually increase the rent. If you want them gone you can go ahead with a bigger increase and security deposit. In any case if you start with just introducing yourself and explaining your intentions it will show them that you know what you want and give them time to accept what is coming. You can follow up a few weeks later with your decision.

    For the lawn, I would just offer them to do it for a $25 rent discount. It´s $300 a year and probably close to what you would pay for a professional. If they are not interested I would not force them, they might not want the responsibility and I would be concerned about liability (or poor quality job).

    We have been renting for a year and a half, learning along the way and it´s been a very good experience so far. The Buffalo market is very favorable and most tenants are great so no worry :)

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2014 · 23 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    I would have liked to have seen these issues handled prior to the contract being signed. Knowing your situation prior to closing is putting you in a better position than figuring it out later. Since it is too late. I would advise you to increase the rents immediately, prior to asking for security deposit. The rent, you get to keep, versus the refundable security. If the rent increase comes with a long-term lease or month-to-month, it does not matter, but if not long-term, you should issues a tenant agreement with understandings made or rules of the house. Look me up, I host the largest investing network in Buffalo. We can answer all your questions in a group or one-on-one. Next time, I'd love to share how you should enter into a contract, so many people just don't know. I'm hear to teach.

    My experience comes from averaging greater than one property acquisition per month. Two important aspects: the deal and the tenants/management. And too often, both points are missed. I would also be careful in updating a property. Too often the investment on renovations don't yield enough of a return. You mention $5000 for cosmetic updates. $5000 can get you into a 4-unit property that collects $2300/month...yes really, and that's not even rare.

  • Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y
    Hey Meghan, welcome to BP from a fellow WNY investor and LEO! I actually own an upper/lower in the exact area you described, just north of the basilica. I have almost two years under my belt, with this property being my first one. There have been a lot of highs and lows throughout the process and it has been a great learning experience. If I had one recommendation it would have been to have the closing contingent on the property being vacant. I believe it's important to screen your tenants yourself to make sure they will fit. I didn't do that, and had an immediate issue with the upper tenant involving not paying rent and smoking in the unit. Obviously you're past that point, I would just be transparent with them as best as you can do they can prepare to move if need be. Giving them the flexibility of paying the security deposit over the first few months is definitely a good idea. Just as others have already stated, you should walk through the apartments with the tenants and complete a detailed checklist with them so you know the condition of the units. Early on my "bible" was "every landlord's legal guide" by NOLO. This came with great info as well as almost every form you need and the ability to edit them to your liking. It is a great resource! Of course there is a ton of literature out there however this is what worked for me. Good Luck and if you need anything don't hesitate to ask!
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