Bed Bugs in CO & Flooring Question

Bed Bugs in CO & Flooring Question

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 16 votes

I'm wondering if I can get some help on navigating a bed bug issue in Colorado. Bed bugs are something completely new to me. I also have a question about vinyl flooring going over hardwoods (what!?!?).

I purchased a duplex a few months ago and inherited tenants on each side. There was no mention at any point of any issue before or shortly after purchasing, but about 1.5 months ago, one of the sides said they were seeing bed bugs and said they would work on treating it (with Home Depot products). They were not asking how I was going to fix the problem for them--which I appreciate. Having no knowledge of bed bugs, I did some quick research and read a mix of reports about different treatments being effective or non effective--depending on each unique situation. I had read that the home kits have the possibility of being effective if they are used repeatedly. I shared that info with the tenant and suggested they do multiple treatments--to which they agreed.

I checked back a couple weeks later and asked if they were having luck. They said it seemed like it was working and they were planning on doing another treatment still. 

A few weeks after that (a few days ago), the tenant (month-to-month) said she has a family matter and needs to move out at the end of March. I asked if they had the bed bugs all taken care of and she said there are still some. I told them I'd get back to them on that.

Now, the lease I inherited did not have a bed bug addendum nor any specific mention in the lease. Interestingly, the other side, whose lease started about a year later (almost a year ago)--did sign a bed bug addendum. I don't know if that was done by the previous owner just to cover themselves better in general or it was due to some specific bed bug activity. I've not heard about any activity on that side, although I've also never asked. And I'm not sure if this info is pertinent, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

The side in question has... yes, the tenant's used furniture...and somewhat thick carpeting on the main level, as well as the living areas in the basement. I'm not really sure how to proceed. Who's responsible for **effectively** exterminating? How do any CO laws enter into this current situation, as well as moving forward with future tenants?

I would imagine removing the carpeting (and their furniture) would be helpful, but I'm sure it's not THE solution. But, that does bring me to my next question about the flooring...

At some point I thought I may want to replace the carpet (yet, didn't plan on it at this point, but will if it helps the bug situation) with some Ultra Allure, which I've put in other properties and like a lot. It's a pretty simple replacement for the basement with carpeting, but here's where I'm really flummoxed-- under the main level carpet are hardwood floors. But get this... they are pained WHITE! Apparently interesting things were happening back in the 70s and 80s...and apparently they have made somewhat of a come back, but I don't think it's for the best in this case. So, instead of stripping the paint and refinishing them--considering it's a C+ type rental, I'm thinking I may just be better off with Ultra Allure going right over the top of the white wood floors. I figure there will be less maintenance required over the years with this approach, but I'd love others' thoughts.   

Any help on either/both matters would be great--thanks!

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Chris MasonPro Member
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Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
10y

I fought & won a bedbug war as a tenant many many moons ago.

Effective extermination is not possible as a one-off "show up and do the treatment" thing without the active participation of the tenant(s). As a tenant back in the day, I concluded that I'd rather just deal with the inherited bed bugs myself than the repeat visits of exterminators. 

If a single pregnant bedbug survived, they will come back. Others have already commented on the hardiness. I'd never encountered a bedbug in my life prior to moving into this apartment.

- Floors 100% clutter free in the bedroom, 100% of the time. They reside typically within 5 feet or so of anywhere people sleep, which includes living rooms that folks might nap in.

- Once a month or every two months, put a new bed bug cover on the mattress, over the old one (that mattress gets thrown out when you move out, or you will bring them with you to the new place). Pillows too, if you have doubt, or you can kill the bedbugs by putting the thing in the freezer for a few days. 

- Once a week, vacuum floor, including using the narrow attachment thing to really hit up the space between the carpet and wall. Also elevate mattress, vacuum all around the edges of mattress. Before putting mattress back down and putting furniture back in place, spray the F out of everything with the bed bug spray stuff.

- After about three months, the unit will be permanently and 100% bedbug free.

- If you just hire a company, which we tried to let our landlord do, the bugs will come back because of that one or two that survived and mated and/or were pregnant. Tenants still have to move just as much furniture around for the hired exterminator dudes, the difference is if you DIY then you do it on your schedule. 

TLDR: I firmly believe that, if it's a tenant occupied space, the bedbugs will 100% come back if you just hire a company and don't get tenant help. You've got to sell tenants on helping, let the pest guys come in when the entire building is vacant ($$$!!!), or just accept a permanent state of bedbugs. 

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  • New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 8 votes
    10y
    Ultimately there is no way to confirm who's fault it is how the bed bugs got there. In NYC typically the landlord takes care of all extermination fees.... It's in their best interest to get rid of the buggers and get rid of them fast before the infestation grows. Carpeting can in fact help the buggers hide from the treatments however even vacant hardwood flooring apartments can be infested. I would get a professional in their asap. Bed bugs can go without feeding for up to a year I believe.
  • Escrow Officer · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 64 posts · 27 votes
    10y
    I don't know about the laws regarding bed bugs However my understanding is that it would be the landlord's responsibility not the tenants. For all anyone knows they got the bed bugs from the property and not the other way around. Of course they may have brought the bed bugs there too! No way to tell. The main thing is that this is your property and your problem. I once lived in an apartment, everything was fine for a few months until I started noticing bites. I talked with a bunch of neighbors who told me that they had had bed bugs for a long time living there. What tends to happen with bed bugs is that when you fumigate one apartment, they just migrate over to the next one. Bed bugs are awful and almost impossible to get rid of. Sometimes they can even get into the insulation of a building. They made my life a miserable hell for a few months: I had to throw away A lot of my furniture and had to pay a lot of money to salvage my things. I would say you need to get professional people out there, I would not trust an at home kit. These things can survive for up to 18 months with no food. They can live through extreme cold and heat, they would probably survive a nuclear holocaust. For the benefit of yourself and your tenants: call a professional. I will say the one thing that does kill them based on my research is extremely hot water. I hope this helps! Good luck dealing with your issue and I'm really sorry you have to deal with it at all!
  • Real Estate Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 44 votes
    10y

    @Crystal Perezis right on the life cycle and hardiness of the bug.  It shouldn't be necessary to scrap the carpet or furniture, your flooring choice is really a separate issue.  If this is a C+ area I think you are going to have to hire a professional.  Bed bug treatments are expensive and it's unlikely anyone in a low rent area is going to be able to afford to hire anyone who is capable of handling the problem.  I would do this as soon as possible with a reputable company.  Bed bug litigation is a new cash cow in the legal industry and the problem is unlikely to get better on it's own.

  • Lender · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 597 votes
    10y

    On multi-families I pay for the bed bug treatment - it is so difficult to nail down, but ultimately not right for the not guilty party to have bed bugs when the other side brought them in. I use Budget Pest Control in Centennial (they have worked all over town for me). No need to remove carpet, furniture, etc. Just let them do their thing, bed bugs are expensive (few hundred for treatment) and follow up treatment is necessary. 

    To the flooring it is my guess it was painted with kilz to mask a pet smell at some point in time as it was and still is cheaper to do that and put carpet in then to refinish the floors.

    Good Luck.

  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Brian Kraft if your units are in the City and County of Denver the city ordinance requires the landlord to take care of the bed bugs. I think you can charge the tenants but you must eradicate them. Tenants must cooperate with the process or it's not effective. @Elena Jobsonexperience of throwing away personal property was based on bad advise. I was able to get them out of a 4 unit property by properly treating all the units which chemicals. It was not fun nor cheap and it required two treatments. It is not effective to treat vacant units. They are attracted to the heat and CO2 given off by sleeping humans. To treat effectively you must remove the carpet and tack strips. They love to hid under tack strips which makes them very hard to kill. 

    I think in low end rental I would use the painted floors rather than carpet. I agree with what @Travis Sperrsuggested with the floors being painted to cover pet odor. Taking care of that is another post. I would paint them again and be done with it. There is special paint for floors. No carpet and Allure is a waste in this case IMO.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 213 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    If you youtube bed bug traps there is a little trap that emits CO2 you can make that catches them.. now that it is vacant I think I would be putting those out in the near term and catch as many as possible and try to keep them on one side.  exterminate in the crawl space also if you have one....  AND don't bring them home....  I also really like painted floors a couple rugs and a painted border.... all sorts of fun stuff .. it might even be cute.  a lot of porch and floor paints have grit in them so you may look to find some that do not.. good for porches not so good for inside.  Just a TIP also... porch and floor paint dries real fast and hard so you can also use it on bookshelves or any shelves and the books don't stick... 

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 213 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    @Brian Kraft here is one link .... lots of them  so you know what you are battling   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWd5dBdyqVc

  • Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Brian Kraft i had the exact same situation..inherited prior tenants in a condo. Shortly after purchase they complained of bed bugs. They were some of the dirtiest tenants I've seen and there were alot of different people living there whenever i made house calls.You can spray and heat treat until you're blue in the face but it wont help unless the tenants are proactive. I knew the tenants wouldn't be so, amongst other issues, i had them evicted and then had the place sprayed. Its usually 4 times a year i think for follow up. There was not a bedbug addendum in the prior lease so i just spoke with the tenants and agreed that i would pay half of the 900 and they pay the rest.. Expensive tenants to inherit but it turned out well in the end.

  • Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    Thanks, all! I appreciate the advice. I'm getting the bed bugs taken care of.

    @Bill S. I'm interested to know why you think Allure is a waste in this case?

    If using floor paint, how often does that have to be re-done to keep it looking in pretty good shape?

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 296 posts · 243 votes
    10y

    Brian,

    I'll add my $0.02 to the flooring issue - I've got some C+ apartments in Arizona.  I used a two-part epoxy floor coating in one of my apartments, something like you would see in a hospital or industrial kitchen.  The product comes from Arizona Polymer Flooring, and is about $1.30/SF for materials all in.  

    the good part about it is that once fully cured (5-7 days) it is basically bombproof.  Resists chemicals, urine, blood, MEK, acetone, oil, vomit, the whole 9 yards.  Comes in about 350 colors, and you can put it down yourself pretty easily.  Tenant can throw down a couple rugs, and its a wrap.  

    re: durability - these type products, when properly installed, have 10+ year lifespans in places like hospitals and jails.  The home depot type stuff you can get 8+ years out of, and its a lot cheaper.  If you're worried about texture, or slip-n-falls, mix some sand in with it when you roll it down.  

    My tenants LOVE the looks, and I like the fact that I can pressure wash it down with no side effects, and it is really, really tough to scratch.  

  • Professional · Sierra Vista, AZ · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Darwin Crawford can you post any pics?  Thanks!

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 296 posts · 243 votes
    10y

    I don't have any pics handy but the last place I sold is on zillow with pics.  search for 1536 w roma ave 85015.  

  • Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2013 · 25 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Darwin Crawford I'm interested in doing something like this in one of my places, so thanks for mentioning what's been successful for you. In the Zillow pics of your Roma property I see what appears to be white epoxy in the front room/kitchen/dining area and then gray in the garage. Is it correct that both of these are products from Arizona Polymer Flooring? I browsed their website, mostly looking at their Interior Concrete Coatings, and am amazed at the variety of products. Do you recall which one(s) you used?  Thanks in advance for you time.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    I fought & won a bedbug war as a tenant many many moons ago.

    Effective extermination is not possible as a one-off "show up and do the treatment" thing without the active participation of the tenant(s). As a tenant back in the day, I concluded that I'd rather just deal with the inherited bed bugs myself than the repeat visits of exterminators. 

    If a single pregnant bedbug survived, they will come back. Others have already commented on the hardiness. I'd never encountered a bedbug in my life prior to moving into this apartment.

    - Floors 100% clutter free in the bedroom, 100% of the time. They reside typically within 5 feet or so of anywhere people sleep, which includes living rooms that folks might nap in.

    - Once a month or every two months, put a new bed bug cover on the mattress, over the old one (that mattress gets thrown out when you move out, or you will bring them with you to the new place). Pillows too, if you have doubt, or you can kill the bedbugs by putting the thing in the freezer for a few days. 

    - Once a week, vacuum floor, including using the narrow attachment thing to really hit up the space between the carpet and wall. Also elevate mattress, vacuum all around the edges of mattress. Before putting mattress back down and putting furniture back in place, spray the F out of everything with the bed bug spray stuff.

    - After about three months, the unit will be permanently and 100% bedbug free.

    - If you just hire a company, which we tried to let our landlord do, the bugs will come back because of that one or two that survived and mated and/or were pregnant. Tenants still have to move just as much furniture around for the hired exterminator dudes, the difference is if you DIY then you do it on your schedule. 

    TLDR: I firmly believe that, if it's a tenant occupied space, the bedbugs will 100% come back if you just hire a company and don't get tenant help. You've got to sell tenants on helping, let the pest guys come in when the entire building is vacant ($$$!!!), or just accept a permanent state of bedbugs. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 296 posts · 243 votes
    10y

    @Michelle Masters - the right way to do those floors is with a 3-step coating.  The roma property was the one I learned on, out of necessity, because the "installer" I hired did a totally $**t job.  

    So I hauled my sorry self out to APF, made friends with their tech supervisor, who used to be an installer, and have done 3 of them since.  I no longer hire this out, because its pretty easy to do, and most guys are slobs and leave you with a crap floor you have to re-do anyway.  

    On a rental, you want the 100 series as a primer, the 400 series as the middle coat, and the Poly100 as the top coat.  That is what's used in hospitals, prisons, commercial kitchens, etc.  The process isn't hard, you just have to be a real stickler for prep and cleanliness, and you're ok.  Grind all concrete with a diamond wheel, don't use the acid etch.  There is a widget that goes on a shop-vac that will attach to the grinder and catch almost all the dust. 

    If i were flipping again, I'd just 2-coat the floor with the 400 series and be done with it.  Most retail buyers aren't hard on flooring, but tenants are another story.  

    And @Chris Mason - great info on the B/bugs, and I absolutely agree - having the tenant "in your court" is vital!

  • Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2013 · 25 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Thanks for those details @Darwin Crawford!

    @Chris Mason I've never had to deal with bedbugs (knock on wood), but this seems like one of the most thorough posts I've ran across on the topic. 

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michelle Masters:

    Thanks for those details @Darwin Crawford!

    @Chris Mason I've never had to deal with bedbugs (knock on wood), but this seems like one of the most thorough posts I've ran across on the topic. 

     Thanks. :)

    I was a student at UC Berkeley at the time... so I did what any good student would do: Read several hundred pages of academic peer reviewed scholarly literature on the subject of bed bugs. Yes, it exists. Yes, there are people out there with Ph.Ds in bedbugs. Yes, there are varying academic schools of thought on bedbugs and, it turns out, very serious debates in this field of study! 

    I used to, using the e-library access and google scholar, read many many many works on mortgage theory, finance, etc, but then they took away my e-library e-card. :(

  • Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    The polymer solution looks like an interesting one and one that will hold up for a long time. I would assume covering hardwoods with it would leave the wood hard to bring back, if I wanted to refinish them someday. Thoughts?

    Also, still curious why a vinyl solution like Ultra Allure would be a waste. Anyone have insight into that? @Bill S.? 

  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Brian Kraft sorry I was out of pocket for a few days. Allure doesn't fly too good with the millennial crowd as it's a "fake" product. If the property is class C or below, I've heard good outcomes with it. Anything nicer than that, the wood floors are the way to go IMO. 

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 213 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    remember that if you put a paint type product over wood floors that constantly flex and move ... I think you will find cracks  along all the joints in short order... there are some very cool linoleums out there.  also marmoleum ??sp  is a natural product but more expensive but very cool patterns (sheet or tiles)

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