Tenant reported fungus/mold on a small section of the bedroom ceiling

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Tenant reported fungus/mold on a small section of the bedroom ceiling

Carlos Lez
Member since 2020 · 87 posts · 22 votes

I was notified yesterday that a tenant 's friend had noticed a water damage and fungus/mold patch on their bedroom ceiling when they entered their unit yesterday, 

BACKGROUND: Please note that the tenant has been out of town for over 2 months  and a friend occasionally goes to deliver their packages etc when they noted this. We have had pockets of intense rain for 3 days and then dry hot periods this winter. 

Our roof was replaced 2024 January but no leaks seen in 2024. There is a patio around the general area (not touched during the reroof) on this water damage and it could be the patio or the roof that is causing this leak. Please note that the patio has been fine all along before the re-roof so it is likely still okay but this has to be determined by opening the ceiling and then first flooding the patio to see if there are leaks, if not then it is the section of the roof. I have a few questions relating to this , that I'll be grateful if you can help me address. There are a lot of dependencies here;

The tenant wrote ;

I will return in 2 days. In the interim, could you provide me with a detailed timeline for the assessment and repairs for this issue? Additionally, could confirmation of habitability with an official mold inspection and testing of air quality be provided in accordance with California Health and Safety Code (HSC §17920.3) and Palo Alto Municipal Code 9.72?

I am concerned about the impact on my health. While testing, assessment for mold, and repairs are conducted, will there be assistance in relocation? I would like to stay in comparable housing in the interim.

I need help with the following;

1) When they say 'comparable housing', am I obligated to provide a 1 bedroom apartment or a hotel room would suffice?

2) The black patches are only on the bedroom ceiling. Could I block off the bedroom for 4-5 days while the work gets done and offer them to stay in the living room on their mattress or sofa bed for a reduced rent.

3) Could I offer to let them to find their own place for the few days and refund them per diem for the days they have to live elsewhere. Please note we are not asking them to move anything out of the apartment.

4) They have renters insurance. Should their insurance pay for hosting them but how can we ensure that their insurance company does not subrogate the landlords policy (their lease clearly states that).

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Henry T.
Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Carlos Lez:
Quote from @Henry T.:

If its wet you have a leak. If it's dry, cover it with a oil based primer, then 3 hours later paint it. Done.


 it is dry and the section is not that large. We cut open the drywall and pulled out the insulation to identify the source of leak on the roof. There was no mold or wetness found. Now I just need to replace it with new sheetrock.

Any recommendations on if I should spray anything inside before putting in the new insulation battings and closing this up, in case there are any lingering spores?  Also what is your advice on what to prime the new sheetrock with to just be sure nothing else erupts later. 

I will get a air quality assessment done to be sure it is all good before the tenant moves back in.

Also are there any recommendations for licensed air quality inspectors who can certify in the SF Bay Area? Thanks for the engagement.


 Here's my take on the matter. You go to a surgeon, and they'll cut you. Go to a holistic doc and he might give you some herbs. Air quality assessment? F that! If I was gonna go that route, I'd better see webbing that I have to fight thru the room with a machete. We're all gonna die!! But not from mold....If there's no wetness, there's nothing to worry about. Close it up, paint, and find some older tenants that haven't been brainwashed.  

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  • Henry T.
    Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    If its wet you have a leak. If it's dry, cover it with a oil based primer, then 3 hours later paint it. Done.

    1Reply
    • Carlos Lez
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 87 posts · 22 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Henry T.:

      If its wet you have a leak. If it's dry, cover it with a oil based primer, then 3 hours later paint it. Done.


       it is dry and the section is not that large. We cut open the drywall and pulled out the insulation to identify the source of leak on the roof. There was no mold or wetness found. Now I just need to replace it with new sheetrock.

      Any recommendations on if I should spray anything inside before putting in the new insulation battings and closing this up, in case there are any lingering spores?  Also what is your advice on what to prime the new sheetrock with to just be sure nothing else erupts later. 

      I will get a air quality assessment done to be sure it is all good before the tenant moves back in.

      Also are there any recommendations for licensed air quality inspectors who can certify in the SF Bay Area? Thanks for the engagement.

      0Reply
    • Henry T.
      Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Carlos Lez:
      Quote from @Henry T.:

      If its wet you have a leak. If it's dry, cover it with a oil based primer, then 3 hours later paint it. Done.


       it is dry and the section is not that large. We cut open the drywall and pulled out the insulation to identify the source of leak on the roof. There was no mold or wetness found. Now I just need to replace it with new sheetrock.

      Any recommendations on if I should spray anything inside before putting in the new insulation battings and closing this up, in case there are any lingering spores?  Also what is your advice on what to prime the new sheetrock with to just be sure nothing else erupts later. 

      I will get a air quality assessment done to be sure it is all good before the tenant moves back in.

      Also are there any recommendations for licensed air quality inspectors who can certify in the SF Bay Area? Thanks for the engagement.


       Here's my take on the matter. You go to a surgeon, and they'll cut you. Go to a holistic doc and he might give you some herbs. Air quality assessment? F that! If I was gonna go that route, I'd better see webbing that I have to fight thru the room with a machete. We're all gonna die!! But not from mold....If there's no wetness, there's nothing to worry about. Close it up, paint, and find some older tenants that haven't been brainwashed.  

      2Reply
    • Carlos Lez
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 87 posts · 22 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Henry T.:
      Quote from @Carlos Lez:
      Quote from @Henry T.:

      If its wet you have a leak. If it's dry, cover it with a oil based primer, then 3 hours later paint it. Done.


       it is dry and the section is not that large. We cut open the drywall and pulled out the insulation to identify the source of leak on the roof. There was no mold or wetness found. Now I just need to replace it with new sheetrock.

      Any recommendations on if I should spray anything inside before putting in the new insulation battings and closing this up, in case there are any lingering spores?  Also what is your advice on what to prime the new sheetrock with to just be sure nothing else erupts later. 

      I will get a air quality assessment done to be sure it is all good before the tenant moves back in.

      Also are there any recommendations for licensed air quality inspectors who can certify in the SF Bay Area? Thanks for the engagement.


       Here's my take on the matter. You go to a surgeon, and they'll cut you. Go to a holistic doc and he might give you some herbs. Air quality assessment? F that! If I was gonna go that route, I'd better see webbing that I have to fight thru the room with a machete. We're all gonna die!! But not from mold....If there's no wetness, there's nothing to worry about. Close it up, paint, and find some older tenants that haven't been brainwashed.  

      Agreed and understood but the unit is currently occupied by a tenant that needs proof that it is habitable after the repairs. They already are living there on a lease. I can’t kick them out.
      0Reply
  • Alexander Gilson
    Specialist · Member since 2025 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Carlos Lez:

    I was notified yesterday that a tenant 's friend had noticed a water damage and fungus/mold patch on their bedroom ceiling when they entered their unit yesterday, 

    BACKGROUND: Please note that the tenant has been out of town for over 2 months  and a friend occasionally goes to deliver their packages etc when they noted this. We have had pockets of intense rain for 3 days and then dry hot periods this winter. 

    Our roof was replaced 2024 January but no leaks seen in 2024. There is a patio around the general area (not touched during the reroof) on this water damage and it could be the patio or the roof that is causing this leak. Please note that the patio has been fine all along before the re-roof so it is likely still okay but this has to be determined by opening the ceiling and then first flooding the patio to see if there are leaks, if not then it is the section of the roof. I have a few questions relating to this , that I'll be grateful if you can help me address. There are a lot of dependencies here;

    The tenant wrote ;

    I will return in 2 days. In the interim, could you provide me with a detailed timeline for the assessment and repairs for this issue? Additionally, could confirmation of habitability with an official mold inspection and testing of air quality be provided in accordance with California Health and Safety Code (HSC §17920.3) and Palo Alto Municipal Code 9.72?

    I am concerned about the impact on my health. While testing, assessment for mold, and repairs are conducted, will there be assistance in relocation? I would like to stay in comparable housing in the interim.

    I need help with the following;

    1) When they say 'comparable housing', am I obligated to provide a 1 bedroom apartment or a hotel room would suffice?

    2) The black patches are only on the bedroom ceiling. Could I block off the bedroom for 4-5 days while the work gets done and offer them to stay in the living room on their mattress or sofa bed for a reduced rent.

    3) Could I offer to let them to find their own place for the few days and refund them per diem for the days they have to live elsewhere. Please note we are not asking them to move anything out of the apartment.

    4) They have renters insurance. Should their insurance pay for hosting them but how can we ensure that their insurance company does not subrogate the landlords policy (their lease clearly states that).

    If you haven’t already, it might be worth checking with your insurer to see what coverage applies in this situation. Sometimes policies cover temporary housing and mold-related repairs, but it depends on how the policy is structured. I work with a team of public adjusters who specialize in handling these types of claims and ensuring property owners get the maximum benefits from their policies. Let me know if you’d like any guidance—I’d be happy to help!
    0Reply
    • Carlos Lez
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 87 posts · 22 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Alexander Gilson:
      Quote from @Carlos Lez:

      I was notified yesterday that a tenant 's friend had noticed a water damage and fungus/mold patch on their bedroom ceiling when they entered their unit yesterday, 

      BACKGROUND: Please note that the tenant has been out of town for over 2 months  and a friend occasionally goes to deliver their packages etc when they noted this. We have had pockets of intense rain for 3 days and then dry hot periods this winter. 

      Our roof was replaced 2024 January but no leaks seen in 2024. There is a patio around the general area (not touched during the reroof) on this water damage and it could be the patio or the roof that is causing this leak. Please note that the patio has been fine all along before the re-roof so it is likely still okay but this has to be determined by opening the ceiling and then first flooding the patio to see if there are leaks, if not then it is the section of the roof. I have a few questions relating to this , that I'll be grateful if you can help me address. There are a lot of dependencies here;

      The tenant wrote ;

      I will return in 2 days. In the interim, could you provide me with a detailed timeline for the assessment and repairs for this issue? Additionally, could confirmation of habitability with an official mold inspection and testing of air quality be provided in accordance with California Health and Safety Code (HSC §17920.3) and Palo Alto Municipal Code 9.72?

      I am concerned about the impact on my health. While testing, assessment for mold, and repairs are conducted, will there be assistance in relocation? I would like to stay in comparable housing in the interim.

      I need help with the following;

      1) When they say 'comparable housing', am I obligated to provide a 1 bedroom apartment or a hotel room would suffice?

      2) The black patches are only on the bedroom ceiling. Could I block off the bedroom for 4-5 days while the work gets done and offer them to stay in the living room on their mattress or sofa bed for a reduced rent.

      3) Could I offer to let them to find their own place for the few days and refund them per diem for the days they have to live elsewhere. Please note we are not asking them to move anything out of the apartment.

      4) They have renters insurance. Should their insurance pay for hosting them but how can we ensure that their insurance company does not subrogate the landlords policy (their lease clearly states that).

      If you haven’t already, it might be worth checking with your insurer to see what coverage applies in this situation. Sometimes policies cover temporary housing and mold-related repairs, but it depends on how the policy is structured. I work with a team of public adjusters who specialize in handling these types of claims and ensuring property owners get the maximum benefits from their policies. Let me know if you’d like any guidance—I’d be happy to help!

      Anything related to mold is expressly excluded from the policy. I am only happy that we have an insurance policy. Frankly I don't expect much from it other than catastrophe coverage and to satisfy the lender. Unfortunately this is what it has become in CA. If I touch insurance for this they won't insure me in their next renewal or jack up premiums to multiple times of what I may have spent in this process. I am even hesitant to involve the renter's insurance for the same reason. They will most certainly try to subrogate the landlord insurance and we are back to square one.

      0Reply
  • Jules Aton
    MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    No wise words. I'm sorry you are going through this and yup this is what the whole country has become now. 

    0Reply
  • Henry T.
    Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    I hope you are documenting everything. Have an inspection done. If the inspector says its ok, I'd go with that. Send him copy of the inspection report. Be careful of what you say to him verbally or in writing, as if you're saying it in front of a judge.  Follow the terms of your lease and law regarding abandonment. If he doesn't return and pay his rent, consider the place abandoned. Put his stuff on the curb. Don't let him jerk you around. You're the boss, act like one, but know what you're doing, follow your lease and the law. Don't even talk to him. Send him paper in writing stating how it's going to be. Don't be so available on the phone, who wants to talk to a pain ita.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    1y

    Mold requires a source of moisture. If there's no leak, the moisture came from inside the home. Your tenant wasn't walking in/out regularly, so the humidity can't escape and collects in the form of condensation during cold temperatures.

    Based on what you've shared, I would tell the tenant he is responsible and should clean it. Share this with him: https://www.epa.gov/mold/brief-guide-mold-moisture-and-your-...

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    0Reply
  • Joseph Hammel
    Rental Property Investor · Lake Hallie, WI · Member since 2015 · 292 posts · 144 votes
    1y

    I agree with most above. Sounds like a pretty minor thing. Nothing that you need such measures for. Adding as a note we have this in our lease:
    "Tenants shall notify the landlords if the property will be unoccupied for more than seven days."

    We also added a line about keeping humidity levels bellow 60%

    0Reply
    • Carlos Lez
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 87 posts · 22 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Joseph Hammel:

      I agree with most above. Sounds like a pretty minor thing. Nothing that you need such measures for. Adding as a note we have this in our lease:
      "Tenants shall notify the landlords if the property will be unoccupied for more than seven days."

      We also added a line about keeping humidity levels bellow 60%

      Joseph, this is an excellent point you make about the tenant having been away and not notifying us of such absence. If someone was living there this problem would have been found immediately. 

      is there any best practice about how often should an apartment be checked if a tenant is gone for say more than 15 days or so?


      0Reply
    • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Carlos Lez:

      Put something in your lease that lets the tenant know they are 100% responsible for what happens with the rental, even during their absence. They should arrange for someone to check it periodically.

      Example:

      Tenant agrees to monitor the condition of the rental property at all times, including during any periods of extended absence or vacation. Tenant shall take reasonable steps to ensure the property is regularly checked during such absences. If damage occurs due to an unreported issue—such as a water leak, mold growth, pest infestation, or similar problem—that would have been reasonably discovered through regular occupancy or inspection, Tenant may be held financially responsible for the resulting damage.

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  • Joseph Hammel
    Rental Property Investor · Lake Hallie, WI · Member since 2015 · 292 posts · 144 votes
    1y

    Look up the law they quoted. This is the only line mentioning mold:

    "(13) Visible mold growth, as determined by a health officer or a code enforcement officer, as defined in Section 829.5 of the Penal Code, excluding the presence of mold that is minor and found on surfaces that can accumulate moisture as part of their properly functioning and intended use."

    0Reply
  • John McDonald
    Member since 2023 · 158 posts · 96 votes
    1y

    If the drywall is dry, you can just scrape, treat, and repaint without needing to relocate anyone. If it’s wet, you’ll need to cut it out and fully dry the area before making repairs. In that case, it’s reasonable to block off the bedroom for a few days while the work is done. Air quality testing isn’t required; that part is up to you.

    0Reply
  • Denise SuppleeBusiness Member
    Realtor · Willow Grove, PA · Member since 2017 · 982 posts · 643 votes
    1y

    I love @Henry T.'s response. Just want to add that it appears you may have what I refer to as a "professional tenant". Now this does not mean they may not be right and there is an issue. However, it does mean they know the system. So make sure you cover yourself by great record-keeping of all that you do and all communications. I hope this works out for you!

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