Ohio - if a co-tenant moves out whose responsibility is it to ensure lease is updated

[Brandon McCombs]

I had 2 tenants (male and female) in the same unit a while back. They both signed the lease. The guy of the couple wasn't really living there most of the time because he traveled for work his business probably 90% of the time. He was helping out with rent most of the time back then. I was never really sure of his relationship with the woman. She would call him a boyfriend but he would say she's just a family friend.

Anyway, he eventually did 'move out'. I never saw him there for the few times a year that I would do inspections. She eventually got a new boyfriend supposedly but I never saw him there and as far as I know he didn't stay overnight and I never saw his stuff there to worry about adding that person to the lease. I never actually knew when the original male co-tenant actually moved out because they didn't tell me for who knows how long after it happened. She took over paying rent but since her jobs weren't high paying she would sometimes need the original male co-tenant to send me a check. I figured if he's still helping with rent then he should say on the lease.

She was causing problems though over the years and eventually I got tired of it so about a year ago I kicked her out. I had to fix damages and clean extensively after she left. She eventually got arrested and sent to jail right after I kicked her out so suing her for add'l damages above the security deposit amount would be easy to get the judgement but difficult to get paid back. I thought of suing the boyfriend but he claims he shouldn't still be on the lease because he moved out. But neither of them ever told me to remove him and if he's still paying rent sometimes then it made sense to me to keep him on it.

Does anyone have thoughts/advice on this situation?

[Kevin Sobilo]

@Brandon McCombs, first off get on top of these things! Don't think about or talk about these things casually because you will be setting an unrealistic expectation with the tenants.

1. Most leases make tenants like this "jointly and severally liable" meaning they are BOTH responsible. It doesn't matter to you which of them contributes what. You make whomever you can pay you.

2. Many leases extend as month-to-month after the initial term. If your tenants were month-to-month the male tenant could claim he gave his 30 day notice when he told you he moved out. So, he may no longer be a tenant.

3. When the male tenant moved out, you should have made decisions about the female tenant. You also should have dealt with the security deposit which belonged to BOTH of them at the time. You should have signed a new rental agreement with the female.

4. The fact that the male continued to help with the rent after he left is not your business at all. If her mother helped with rent would that make the mother your tenant as well?!? Of course not.

5. I would not sue the male because if he is smart he will bring up the deposit that should have been returned when he moved out! In my state by not providing the accounting of deductions from the security deposit within 30 days after he left you could be liable to them for 3x the deposit meaning that if their deposit is $1k, now you owe them $3k for your mishandling of the deposit when the male left. Its possible, but maybe not likely and your state's laws may differ of course.

6. You may sue the female but she will claim you lose because the rental agreement is with BOTH of the tenants and that you need to sue both. The male tenant will claim you need to sue just her because he told you he left.

It may be possible to consider the female your only tenant with a verbal agreement only.

As you can see your failure to manage and communicate and also making assumptions to get out of doing the work to deal with the changing situation causes you a lot of hassle in the end.

[Matthew Paul]

Did the male tenant ever send you written notice ? If not I would still hold him responsible 

[Brandon McCombs]

Quote from @Matthew Paul:

Did the male tenant ever send you written notice ? If not I would still hold him responsible 

 No. And I'd have to check my messages to be sure but I don't think either one of them ever told me "he's/I'm moving out". It just was casually mentioned by the remaining female tenant at some point. 

[Brandon McCombs]

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Brandon McCombs, first off get on top of these things! Don't think about or talk about these things casually because you will be setting an unrealistic expectation with the tenants.

1. Most leases make tenants like this "jointly and severally liable" meaning they are BOTH responsible. It doesn't matter to you which of them contributes what. You make whomever you can pay you.

2. Many leases extend as month-to-month after the initial term. If your tenants were month-to-month the male tenant could claim he gave his 30 day notice when he told you he moved out. So, he may no longer be a tenant.

3. When the male tenant moved out, you should have made decisions about the female tenant. You also should have dealt with the security deposit which belonged to BOTH of them at the time. You should have signed a new rental agreement with the female.

4. The fact that the male continued to help with the rent after he left is not your business at all. If her mother helped with rent would that make the mother your tenant as well?!? Of course not.

5. I would not sue the male because if he is smart he will bring up the deposit that should have been returned when he moved out! In my state by not providing the accounting of deductions from the security deposit within 30 days after he left you could be liable to them for 3x the deposit meaning that if their deposit is $1k, now you owe them $3k for your mishandling of the deposit when the male left. Its possible, but maybe not likely and your state's laws may differ of course.

6. You may sue the female but she will claim you lose because the rental agreement is with BOTH of the tenants and that you need to sue both. The male tenant will claim you need to sue just her because he told you he left.

It may be possible to consider the female your only tenant with a verbal agreement only.

As you can see your failure to manage and communicate and also making assumptions to get out of doing the work to deal with the changing situation causes you a lot of hassle in the end.

Wow, this quoting feature is horrible. It makes the entire message quoted and it can't be split up.
1.
I'm aware. My lease is like that. My point in bringing up the fact he
continued paying is because he said to me in response to my letter
stating he owes the difference in damages above the security deposit
amount that he has nothing to do with her anymore, except it wasn't true
because he still would write checks directly to me to cover her rent.

2. There was no explicit "i'm moving out" by him or from her about him.

3. Possibly should have done something about the deposit but everything that happened with him moving out was essentially conducted without notice to me and it's hard to say now whether I even found out he wasn't there within 30 days of his actually moving out.

4. I agree that someone else paying doesn't not make them a tenant but a) this guy had been a tenant and b) I only mention it because of what I already explained above in #1.

5. He could potentially bring up the deposit but he'd also have to show proof he notified me of his vacating. I'll check my messages but I don't believe I have anything and they aren't the type to send written letters for notification purposes. So he'd lose that argument about the deposit.

[Greg M.]

If a co-tenant moves out, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure the lease is updated. 

One thing you didn't mention is if the original lease continued as month-to-month or if you had the female tenant sign a new lease at any point in time. Makes a big difference. 

As mentioned by Kevin S., make sure there is "jointly and severally liable" wording in the lease. Also include that you have the right to refund the security deposit to ANY of the lease signers and no part will be returned until ALL signers have vacated the unit.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Brandon McCombs:

Wow, this quoting feature is horrible. It makes the entire message quoted and it can't be split up.

You can copy/paste the text. When I quote someone, I typically delete their entire response and just leave their name so everyone knows who I am responding to.

I agree with the others. You are in this mess because you allowed it to happen. Maintain control of your rental. If the guy disappears, remove him from the lease and make it clear that the remaining tenant is fully responsible. If she's causing problems, get rid of her! Don't allow problems to continue for years.

[Don Konipol]

@Brandon McCombs

Don’t be so hard on yourself.  It’s a learning experience and not a costly mistake.  Just get legal help next time. 

[Kevin Sobilo]

Quote from @Brandon McCombs:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Brandon McCombs, first off get on top of these things! Don't think about or talk about these things casually because you will be setting an unrealistic expectation with the tenants.

1. Most leases make tenants like this "jointly and severally liable" meaning they are BOTH responsible. It doesn't matter to you which of them contributes what. You make whomever you can pay you.

2. Many leases extend as month-to-month after the initial term. If your tenants were month-to-month the male tenant could claim he gave his 30 day notice when he told you he moved out. So, he may no longer be a tenant.

3. When the male tenant moved out, you should have made decisions about the female tenant. You also should have dealt with the security deposit which belonged to BOTH of them at the time. You should have signed a new rental agreement with the female.

4. The fact that the male continued to help with the rent after he left is not your business at all. If her mother helped with rent would that make the mother your tenant as well?!? Of course not.

5. I would not sue the male because if he is smart he will bring up the deposit that should have been returned when he moved out! In my state by not providing the accounting of deductions from the security deposit within 30 days after he left you could be liable to them for 3x the deposit meaning that if their deposit is $1k, now you owe them $3k for your mishandling of the deposit when the male left. Its possible, but maybe not likely and your state's laws may differ of course.

6. You may sue the female but she will claim you lose because the rental agreement is with BOTH of the tenants and that you need to sue both. The male tenant will claim you need to sue just her because he told you he left.

It may be possible to consider the female your only tenant with a verbal agreement only.

As you can see your failure to manage and communicate and also making assumptions to get out of doing the work to deal with the changing situation causes you a lot of hassle in the end.

Wow, this quoting feature is horrible. It makes the entire message quoted and it can't be split up.
1.
I'm aware. My lease is like that. My point in bringing up the fact he
continued paying is because he said to me in response to my letter
stating he owes the difference in damages above the security deposit
amount that he has nothing to do with her anymore, except it wasn't true
because he still would write checks directly to me to cover her rent.

2. There was no explicit "i'm moving out" by him or from her about him.

3. Possibly should have done something about the deposit but everything that happened with him moving out was essentially conducted without notice to me and it's hard to say now whether I even found out he wasn't there within 30 days of his actually moving out.

4. I agree that someone else paying doesn't not make them a tenant but a) this guy had been a tenant and b) I only mention it because of what I already explained above in #1.

5. He could potentially bring up the deposit but he'd also have to show proof he notified me of his vacating. I'll check my messages but I don't believe I have anything and they aren't the type to send written letters for notification purposes. So he'd lose that argument about the deposit.

They don't have to tell you 30 days BEFORE they leave. Otherwise, someone who just abandons a rental would be liable for rent FOREVER!!!

It's more about when you knew he had left. If the tenant told you he had left and you acknowledged that likely that would satisfy any requirement. Obviously the laws in different places may vary but I suspect that is how it would play out in most places. 

[Brandon McCombs]

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Brandon McCombs:

Wow, this quoting feature is horrible. It makes the entire message quoted and it can't be split up.

You can copy/paste the text. When I quote someone, I typically delete their entire response and just leave their name so everyone knows who I am responding to.

I agree with the others. You are in this mess because you allowed it to happen. Maintain control of your rental. If the guy disappears, remove him from the lease and make it clear that the remaining tenant is fully responsible. If she's causing problems, get rid of her! Don't allow problems to continue for years.

I didn't ask opinions on what I should have done.

[Brandon McCombs]

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

They don't have to tell you 30 days BEFORE they leave. Otherwise, someone who just abandons a rental would be liable for rent FOREVER!!!

It's more about when you knew he had left. If the tenant told you he had left and you acknowledged that likely that would satisfy any requirement. Obviously the laws in different places may vary but I suspect that is how it would play out in most places. 

And I'm saying there's no proof of when or if she even told me because it wasn't by text and they aren't the type to send letters. Kinda hard to tell when someone leaves if they're always on the road anyway (I think I saw him once after they started renting) and I can't be there everyday to monitor the situation and they don't tell me otherwise. I don't recall really noticing his stuff there anyway. By now it's been 3 years or so since he "left" so I don't recall exact details. She was there a total of 4 or 5 years.

[Kevin Sobilo]

Quote from @Brandon McCombs:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

They don't have to tell you 30 days BEFORE they leave. Otherwise, someone who just abandons a rental would be liable for rent FOREVER!!!

It's more about when you knew he had left. If the tenant told you he had left and you acknowledged that likely that would satisfy any requirement. Obviously the laws in different places may vary but I suspect that is how it would play out in most places. 

And I'm saying there's no proof of when or if she even told me because it wasn't by text and they aren't the type to send letters. Kinda hard to tell when someone leaves if they're always on the road anyway (I think I saw him once after they started renting) and I can't be there everyday to monitor the situation and they don't tell me otherwise. I don't recall really noticing his stuff there anyway. By now it's been 3 years or so since he "left" so I don't recall exact details. She was there a total of 4 or 5 years.

The point is that you acknowledge being told more than 30 days ago that he had left and have no reason to believe that to be untrue.

Whether they sent a letter or txt stating the exact date that happened could be immaterial. If you tell the truth in court and say that long ago you were told he had left I think that may suffice. If you do exchange messages with the tenant there may also be other documentation to back this up for example a message from your tenant saying something like "Since I'm the only tenant its a little harder now, but I will have the rest of the rent on Friday".

If the first you ever heard of him leaving was within the previous 30 days, then you would be on much more solid footing I think. 

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Brandon McCombs:

You asked for "thoughts/advice on this situation." How do we know that you didn't want us to address 90% of your post that details how you got into this situation?

If you just wanted to know how to sue a former tenant, without talking about the mistakes that got you into that situation, then skip the back story.

And when someone spends ten minutes reading your post and then takin time to provide some "thoughts/advice" on it, maybe show a little grace if you disagree with their advice. It didn't cost you anything and we all have the best of intentions.