Vacation Rental, What to Consider?

Question

Hi all

Thanks for all your support! You guys have been awesome and since I have been here.. my investment portfolio and opportunities has exploded!!!

Let just say, because I have your backing, I am not longer "AFRAID" to try new things.

Ok, this is more a BUCKET LIST, than investment.

Well, I want to make it  both, an investment and bucket list.

I have done residential, commercial, and multi-unit rentals.  I would like to try VACATION RENTAL.

Now, if I HAD to do a vacation rental, it had to be a WATERFRONT.  Living in the Carolinas had cured me of beach/ocean-front homes.  So I am looking for a ALL SEASON lakefront.  Something like an affordable LAKE TAHOE kind of deal.

Ok, so... I found one about 2 hours from me.  We vacationed there through VRBO last year. It has a small ski resort and other entertainment.  It services big metropolitan areas such as DC and Pittsburgh.

I have found a few possibilities..

I always had put this project in the back burner, b/c of the $$$.  I just recently came back from HAWAI, and seeing the insane prices there and other popular vacation spot prices, $400-600K for acreage and waterfront is not a bad deal.

First of all, I had spent the last for few weeks learning how to buy WATERFRONT.

and BOY is it complicated: Buffer zones, Buy downs, Easements and Right of Way.  Depth of Lake, Wake Zone, Conservation Restriction, Deeded Dock Slip, Lake Access...etc!!!

That aside, I am having trouble making this deal make SENSE in the REI point of view.

I got a conservative projection: for a 550K 4 bed house, projected Gross Rental Income is 25K? 5% before expenses

I spoke to my accountant yesterday, and he said if you stay 14+ Days, this is considered SECOND HOME, (no tax deduction). 0 Day, it's investment (you can deduct a lot), and Under 14 Days, it's Vacation Rental (some deductions). That's not a big deal, just sharing what I learnt.

We are going to see the properties tomorrow.

Part of me just want this for our enjoyment and have rental pay it off.  Breakeven... but at $550K that's a lot of $$$ to invest to Breakeven.

I am considering managing it myself. but would like to go with a rental company first.

I haven't researched that part yet.

For those of you who have VACATION RENTALS....

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DO IT? Own Pleasure/use or Income Stream

WHERE DID YOU BUY?

SELF MANAGE or RENTAL COMPANY? Cost?

PROS and CONS?

Thanks in advance, as always

Jenn

Bill Gulley · Answer

If it's a Corps of Engineers lake, make sure you have a mowing permit and what size trees or shrubs can be cut. No, your water frontage access has nothing to do with your property line. Usually set a water level, you may own to a water's edge but it may be highly restricted as to use and maintenance.

Setting your property in service with a vacation rental:

Don't expect high occupancy, if the own units those will be rented first, you can become more of an overflow.

Insurance. bonded employees (theft can be high) maintenance contract?

You can take it from there. :)

David Krulac · Answer

@Jennifer Lee

It will be extremely hard to cashflow this type of property.  Vacation homes are often bought on emotion not cashflow.  And most such vacation homes never make any money.

First problem is that the season is short.  The winter has been long in PA, this year but this has been the worst winter, worst in cold and snow in probably 20 years.  In some recent past years the ski resorts have been hurting because the weather is too warm.

Who is the target renter and what is the target rent both gross & bet for the year?

Have had vacation properties and have had both PM and self management.  The PM was 12%, which cut deeper into an already negative cashflow.

At another small lakefront community, we didn't even try to rent because of the thin market and negative cashflow.  But we did flip for a tremendous profit to a buyer with stars in their eyes.

At another vacation home community we had a current pending sale, where we are selling for less than 50% of appraised value, and have had tons of showing very few real buyers.  It in the woods in a PA mountain community.

Mid Atlantic beach properties have a 12 week season where you have to make essentially all your yearly income from Memorial to Labor Day.  Even August trails off as school kids have to be back in session before Labor Day.  The other option is to rent to somebody on a 12 month lease.  Surprisingly the gross rent for the 12 week 12 leases and the 12 month 1 lease are about the same gross.  If you do the 12 month lease, then you can't ever have any personal use.  If you do the 12 week lease and rent for all the prime weeks, then you can never use it during the prime season.  12 weeks might be the entire season at a ski resort in PA.  so you'll own a ski property that you can never go skiing at if you rent it for the entire prime season.  Then what's the point of owning a ski place if you can't ski there and have negative cashflow?

Besides the 14 days personal use, you can also have a open and closing "work" trip to your vacation home that does not count in the 14 days, a little bonus.

And if you rent it out for 14 days or less total for the year, you do not have to declare the income, though you can't deduct any expenses except taxes & interest as a personal residence.

For me emotion has to be separate from business.  PA is not Hawaii, there its all year season and the prices are much higher, and rents are much higher, and the cost of living is much higher than in PA.  I've been to Nemocolin, Seven Springs, Hidden Valley, Blue Mt and even the defunct ski resort at Bear Mt, as well as Deep Creek, so I am familiar with the area resorts.  I have not been to Treasure Lake or Indian Lake.  PM me if you want to discuss this off line.

Chris Martin · Answer

Besides finances... a few other things to consider... Please note that I don't have property there, I am just a casual observer and have been to both of these locations. http://www.savedeepcreek.com/ "We are a group of concerned Deep Creek Lake boat and dock owners who have, in recent years solely because of low water levels, lost the ability to use our boats..."http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/low-water-levels-fontana-lake

Jennifer Lee · Answer

@Flavio Zanetti the offer was rejected... And things came up, like a restaurant lease that require us to outfit....

The lot was also not as marketed as mentioned in previous post. So Thx BP for helping me through this

Flavio Zanetti · Answer

@Jennifer Lee Since this thread is almost a year old, would you be able to give us your impression / details about your purchased vacation rental?

Thanks in advance!Flavio

Flavio Zanetti · Answer

@Jennifer Lee Since this thread is almost a year old, would you be able to give us your impression / details about your purchased vacation rental?

Thanks in advance!Flavio

Jennifer Lee · Answer

hi all

thanks for everything, we decided to put an offer. it's a long shot.

most likely going to be rejected, but this can't be an emotional buy for me.

if this doesn't work out, I'm going to focus my attention on other opportunities in my area.

If it miraculously works out, I will post details... but I highly doubt.

Thanks a bunch

Jennifer Lee · Answer

thanks

We are meeting with our agent tomorrow.

You guys have helped me with a lot good questions to address.

I think I'm cant wrap myself around the emotional buying. I don't usually buy because I want it.. it has to make sense.

Also, I have to buy a commercial office space too soon. So priorities!!

My interest was sparked bc of very interesting listing remark, but it turned out to be nothing like the listing agent said. In fact the agent doesn't even know what he is even selling.. I m waiting to hear what is going on

My agent is confused too... I don't know, I always have a nose for finding something out of the norm...

Tomorrow is a visit to see similar units and comps.

David Krulac · Answer

@Jennifer Lee

I have a friend that lives full time at Deep Creek.  I like it, but as I said before, not sure that you can make cashflow there.  Its not Maui.  Its not even Ocean City.

If you want it because you want it to use for yourself, then do it.  But it will be more like buying your personal residence than buying an investment.  It's sort of like mixing business with pleasure, sometimes one interferes with the other.

Jeremy Baker · Answer

Each area and each community within VRBO is different.

We try not to give our guests a long laundry list of things to do before they leave.  We do ask that they throw out any trash/ recycle, clean any dirty dishes or put them in the dishwasher and run the cleaning cycle, put all dirty towels in the laundry basket and turn off all ceiling fans and air conditioner.  All similar to what each owner in our complex asks of their guests.

We only charge a cleaning fee if the guests stay less than 7 days, which is the policy that most owners in our complex uses with their VRBO listing.  However, there are many owners that will charge that fee even if you stay longer than a month.

As for taxes, Hawaii has the general excise tax and transient accommodations tax that is passed on to each renter (total of 13.42%).  Tourism is the big business in Hawaii, so some other states/ cities may not charge the transient tax.

Vacation Rental, What to Consider?

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