How to collect back rent?

[Amanda Bahil]

Hi all. Any and all advice is appreciated! Quick backstory: Tenants have been in place for almost a year and have always paid reliably, and on time. They did so by sending money orders because I haven't figured out the best way to accept electronic payments to my LLC business account since services like Zelle are for personal accounts only and I'm not really a fan of Venmo or Cash apps. I manage the property myself, and the following info is one for the 'con' column of self property management. Things got a little chaotic in my personal life and I didn't realize I had missed two months of rent. When I spoke to them, they were horrified and had assured me they had sent payments, same way as in the past. With a little investigating on their end, the money orders were hijacked WITHIN the post office (!) and forged to payout to someone else. They of course are looking into recourse to recoup their stolen money. In the mean time, I'm unsure how to go about asking them to pay the 2 months of lost rent. They sent it - which they were able to prove. I didn't realize I hadn't received either payment for two months, so I feel somewhat liable as well. The question is, how do I go about asking for the lost rent? I know this may be a very simple answer to some: they owe rent, so just tell them they have to send it! But, honestly, there's no stipulation for anything like this in the lease, and they're nice people, so I'm just unsure how to go about having this conversation with them. I know on some level they must be thinking they're going to be on the hook for it, but who knows! And I need advice on how to approach this.

As I stated above, any and all advice is welcome!! 

[Jim K.]

The important thing that you are going to have to realize is that your failure to notice that the rent wasn't coming in contributed greatly to this situation. I think you're most of the way there. Your tenants wouldn't have sent the second month if they understood the first month had been hijacked. Their money has been stolen from both them and you, and making it right is going to have to involve both of you suffering here or the guilty to be found and made to make good.

I would explain to the tenant that you're in the hole for two months rent, you realize this is not their fault, but it's not your fault either. I suggest you offer them to pay half the missing rent, and you eat the rest of it. That is, of course, if you really believe this the-money-order-was-stolen-in-the-mail story, which I would doubt without extensive proof. It's a federal crime to tamper with the mail and USPS has its own team of well-respected investigators for this.

[Amanda Bahil]

Thanks for the reply. I agree that I am partly at fault, which is why I'm struggling. I don't feel right demanding they pay when I contributed to them missing a second month by not raising the red flag by noticing I hadn't received that month's rent. I could go back and forth regarding blame, but either way, I am partly responsible, which I totally accept. 

I also agree that the best course here is to probably eat half of it and hope they see that since we're both at fault, that it's a good compromise. I mean, I would never send a money order and not track it to make sure it wound up where it was supposed to. 

As for how it's gone missing... that's a whole mess. They still have the receipts/numbers from the money orders purchased at the post office so they were able to track them, as was the post office. After they were purchased, they were filled out, sealed into envelopes and mailed to me via certified mail. The money orders were altered and cashed by someone else. So if they weren't taken within the post office, TWICE, where were they hijacked? They never made it to me, and were not taken from my mailbox. Plus they're obviously working with someone at a check cashing place who is allowing them to cash them because there's no way they're altering those things and you can't tell.

[Tim Baldwin]

Here's my assessment based on what you described. 

You will have difficulty in enforcement here. The tenants paid by money order, presumably according to the lease agreement, and delivered payment to you, presumably according to the lease agreement. The money was stolen by a third party (note: if they are arrested for the theft, you can seek restitution during the prosecution of the case). Your enforcement remedies under law are: 1) deliver a notice to pay per F.S. 83.56(3), 2) make a claim on the security deposit when they vacate per F.S. 83.49, and 3) seek collection of unpaid rent through lawsuit or collection company. With any one of your remedies, the tenants have a good defense under these facts. 

I see your situation as different from situations where a rent payment made by a personal check that got lost in the mail, because in that situation, the tenant can simply cancel the prior check and issue a new one to you. But in your situation, a money order is like cash, and they delivered payment to you pursuant to your lease agreement. Essentially, the criminal act of the third party was against you (more so than the tenant), because payment had been delivered to you and thus was "in your possession". 

That said, there may possibly be a way for tenant to report the fraud to their bank and get a remedy here. If the tenant's bank does provide a remedy to refund the money to the tenant, then, I think, you'd have firmer grounds to demand payment of that rent. Thus, I would discuss this with the tenant to see if they are able to get a remedy from their bank. 

Best wishes. 

[Jim K.]

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

As for how it's gone missing... that's a whole mess. They still have the receipts/numbers from the money orders purchased at the post office so they were able to track them, as was the post office. After they were purchased, they were filled out, sealed into envelopes and mailed to me via certified mail. The money orders were altered and cashed by someone else. So if they weren't taken within the post office, TWICE, where were they hijacked? They never made it to me, and were not taken from my mailbox. Plus they're obviously working with someone at a check cashing place who is allowing them to cash them because there's no way they're altering those things and you can't tell.

If all of this is true (but I doubt it is, this is a lot of risk for very little reward, Amanda), the postal inspection service has to have a case number on this already. Request that your tenants get you that case number, if you don't have it already. Follow up on the investigation and speak to the team yourself, if you haven't already.

But it really sounds like a load of BS. Who the hell would risk federal time for two months of rent from a private landlord? You might as well mess with FBI, ATF, DEA, even Secret Service or Homeland Security. I should explain that our little outfit has been investigated in the past by the federal government, due to our own stupidity, and so we also cooperate extensively with a few agencies today in our operations. These are not people that criminals want to mess with.

The US Postal Inspection Service has brought down mafia families and terrorist plots. Your gang of thieves (and it would take a gang) might have better odds  of success knocking off armored cars at high noon or kidnapping wealthy children for ransom (a crime with a near-zero success rate in the developed world today).

Get the case number, contact the USPIS independently, see if this rent heist story isn't really a snow job.

[Amanda Bahil]

Thank you @Tim Baldwin! An attorney's take is priceless. Yes, lease states they can pay by several methods which includes money order. It's interesting that even though it never made it to me, but by them sending it to me it is considered "in my possession", because I can't do much in terms of reporting anything stolen. In other words, the only people the post office will talk to and deal with is the sender, so I have no recourse there with them. 

They have started the process with the post office fraud division to hopefully recoup some if not all of their money. And after reading your post, especially since they're good tenants and nice people, I guess the only thing to do would be to wait and see if they are able to collect any of that lost money and if so, then expect them to pay. 

Wholeheartedly appreciate your reply!

[Amanda Bahil]

Quote from @Jim K.:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

As for how it's gone missing... that's a whole mess. They still have the receipts/numbers from the money orders purchased at the post office so they were able to track them, as was the post office. After they were purchased, they were filled out, sealed into envelopes and mailed to me via certified mail. The money orders were altered and cashed by someone else. So if they weren't taken within the post office, TWICE, where were they hijacked? They never made it to me, and were not taken from my mailbox. Plus they're obviously working with someone at a check cashing place who is allowing them to cash them because there's no way they're altering those things and you can't tell.

If all of this is true (but I doubt it is, this is a lot of risk for very little reward, Amanda), the postal inspection service has to have a case number on this already. Request that your tenants get you that case number, if you don't have it already. Follow up on the investigation and speak to the team yourself, if you haven't already.

But it really sounds like a load of BS. Who the hell would risk federal time for two months of rent from a private landlord? You might as well mess with FBI, ATF, DEA, even Secret Service. The US Postal Inspection Service has brought down mafia families. Your gang of thieves (and it would take a gang) might have better odds  of success knocking off armored cars at high noon or kidnapping wealthy children for ransom (a crime with a near-zero success rate in the developed world today).

Get the case number, contact the USPIS independently, see if this rent heist story isn't really a snow job.

I completely agree that it's a lot of risk for such little reward! They have been sharing everything with me. I have a copy of all the official docs between them and the post office, including receipts, copies of the money orders, case number etc. I'll take that advice and see if they'll be more willing to speak to me now, because they weren't before. But I don't have any idea how one person can have the money order receipt/stub with the serial number on it and have that same money order show up somewhere completely different, made out to/from people neither of us know. I guess I'll find out!

[JD Martin]

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

[Amanda Bahil]

Quote from @JD Martin:

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

1. I appreciate that viewpoint, since this is what I'm wrestling with. I agree with the mortgage payment metaphor, although it's not exactly the same circumstances, so that's why I'm not 100% settled on course of action.

2. Appreciate this opinion as well. I've successfully self-managed 3 properties for many years. I've always figured below a certain number was manageable, and it has been. Over the years, only the last two tenants placed in two properties a few months ago have requested electronic payment, and that was when we were setting up business accounts and realized they want to charge for ACH, which I'm not doing. So that's one of the reasons I came back to BP: to see what fellow landlords are using nowadays. Instead of telling me I'm in over my head, why don't you offer some solutions for me rather than offering solid advice of it only takes 10 minutes? Thanks anyway.

[Adam Bartomeo]

It is the tenants responsibility to pay the rent to you. They are responsible for the payment until the payment is in your hands. Once you have collected it then the burden is on you. If they were bringing you cash but on the way to drop it off they got robbed, would there be any question if they still owe rent? 

The conversation should be empathetic but clear. So, sorry that you got scammed but you still owe the rent. 

We normally put them on a payment program when these types of things happen.

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

1. I appreciate that viewpoint, since this is what I'm wrestling with. I agree with the mortgage payment metaphor, although it's not exactly the same circumstances, so that's why I'm not 100% settled on course of action.

2. Appreciate this opinion as well. I've successfully self-managed 3 properties for many years. I've always figured below a certain number was manageable, and it has been. Over the years, only the last two tenants placed in two properties a few months ago have requested electronic payment, and that was when we were setting up business accounts and realized they want to charge for ACH, which I'm not doing. So that's one of the reasons I came back to BP: to see what fellow landlords are using nowadays. Instead of telling me I'm in over my head, why don't you offer some solutions for me rather than offering solid advice of it only takes 10 minutes? Thanks anyway.

 Mostly because it's just not a question that someone who is successfully running a business - and that's what this is - needs to ask. It sounds more likely that you managed by luck rather than by design over that time, and that's not at all usual for "mom and pop" operations, but they also often end up spending more and making less than they would with a property manager because of poor management. No one who successfully runs a business fails to notice that they haven't been paid for a couple of months. That may sound harsh but it's the truth. 

As for online payments, which you didn't ask about so I didn't offer, apartments.com, Zillow, and turbo tenant are 3 right off the top of my head that are free to use to collect payments online. 

And as for the missing rent, it's exactly the same situation unless you're somehow mixed up in the fraud. Let's say your mortgage company forgot to bill you one month but you sent the payment anyway, and then the next month after you made payment they said "we didn't receive your payment" and you collectively found that your payments were stolen and fraudulently cashed. Do you think you wouldn't them owe those two payments and the mortgage company would offer to split it with you?

[Michelle Taylor]

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Hi all. Any and all advice is appreciated! Quick backstory: Tenants have been in place for almost a year and have always paid reliably, and on time. They did so by sending money orders because I haven't figured out the best way to accept electronic payments to my LLC business account since services like Zelle are for personal accounts only and I'm not really a fan of Venmo or Cash apps. I manage the property myself, and the following info is one for the 'con' column of self property management. Things got a little chaotic in my personal life and I didn't realize I had missed two months of rent. When I spoke to them, they were horrified and had assured me they had sent payments, same way as in the past. With a little investigating on their end, the money orders were hijacked WITHIN the post office (!) and forged to payout to someone else. They of course are looking into recourse to recoup their stolen money. In the mean time, I'm unsure how to go about asking them to pay the 2 months of lost rent. They sent it - which they were able to prove. I didn't realize I hadn't received either payment for two months, so I feel somewhat liable as well. The question is, how do I go about asking for the lost rent? I know this may be a very simple answer to some: they owe rent, so just tell them they have to send it! But, honestly, there's no stipulation for anything like this in the lease, and they're nice people, so I'm just unsure how to go about having this conversation with them. I know on some level they must be thinking they're going to be on the hook for it, but who knows! And I need advice on how to approach this.

As I stated above, any and all advice is welcome!! 

I'm curious about Zelle being only for personal accounts. I have a business account for our LLC at Chase Bank and my tenants are able to Zelle directly to that account for rent payment. Maybe try again?

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Michelle Taylor:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Hi all. Any and all advice is appreciated! Quick backstory: Tenants have been in place for almost a year and have always paid reliably, and on time. They did so by sending money orders because I haven't figured out the best way to accept electronic payments to my LLC business account since services like Zelle are for personal accounts only and I'm not really a fan of Venmo or Cash apps. I manage the property myself, and the following info is one for the 'con' column of self property management. Things got a little chaotic in my personal life and I didn't realize I had missed two months of rent. When I spoke to them, they were horrified and had assured me they had sent payments, same way as in the past. With a little investigating on their end, the money orders were hijacked WITHIN the post office (!) and forged to payout to someone else. They of course are looking into recourse to recoup their stolen money. In the mean time, I'm unsure how to go about asking them to pay the 2 months of lost rent. They sent it - which they were able to prove. I didn't realize I hadn't received either payment for two months, so I feel somewhat liable as well. The question is, how do I go about asking for the lost rent? I know this may be a very simple answer to some: they owe rent, so just tell them they have to send it! But, honestly, there's no stipulation for anything like this in the lease, and they're nice people, so I'm just unsure how to go about having this conversation with them. I know on some level they must be thinking they're going to be on the hook for it, but who knows! And I need advice on how to approach this.

As I stated above, any and all advice is welcome!! 

I'm curious about Zelle being only for personal accounts. I have a business account for our LLC at Chase Bank and my tenants are able to Zelle directly to that account for rent payment. Maybe try again?

 It might be bank specific. My bank doesn't allow Zelle into our business accounts even though they participate in Zelle.

[Amanda Bahil]

@Michelle Taylor @JD Martin Yes, I think it is bank specific because I've heard that before. TD, where we have the business accounts, doesn't let us use Zelle for the business accounts and it's annoying! But thank you for the feedback.

[Amanda Bahil]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

1. I appreciate that viewpoint, since this is what I'm wrestling with. I agree with the mortgage payment metaphor, although it's not exactly the same circumstances, so that's why I'm not 100% settled on course of action.

2. Appreciate this opinion as well. I've successfully self-managed 3 properties for many years. I've always figured below a certain number was manageable, and it has been. Over the years, only the last two tenants placed in two properties a few months ago have requested electronic payment, and that was when we were setting up business accounts and realized they want to charge for ACH, which I'm not doing. So that's one of the reasons I came back to BP: to see what fellow landlords are using nowadays. Instead of telling me I'm in over my head, why don't you offer some solutions for me rather than offering solid advice of it only takes 10 minutes? Thanks anyway.

 Mostly because it's just not a question that someone who is successfully running a business - and that's what this is - needs to ask. It sounds more likely that you managed by luck rather than by design over that time, and that's not at all usual for "mom and pop" operations, but they also often end up spending more and making less than they would with a property manager because of poor management. No one who successfully runs a business fails to notice that they haven't been paid for a couple of months. That may sound harsh but it's the truth. 

As for online payments, which you didn't ask about so I didn't offer, apartments.com, Zillow, and turbo tenant are 3 right off the top of my head that are free to use to collect payments online. 

And as for the missing rent, it's exactly the same situation unless you're somehow mixed up in the fraud. Let's say your mortgage company forgot to bill you one month but you sent the payment anyway, and then the next month after you made payment they said "we didn't receive your payment" and you collectively found that your payments were stolen and fraudulently cashed. Do you think you wouldn't them owe those two payments and the mortgage company would offer to split it with you?

 JD, while I appreciate your input, I just think you and I aren't a good mix. You have no idea who I am or what I do, or how I run any of my businesses. Nor do I feel like I need to explain any of it or why it happened. I came here for advice, constructive criticisms even. I may not have asked specifically for electronic payment recommendations because I did that on a different post, dedicated to asking ONLY that question. But, I did make mention in the first paragraph that I haven't figured that out yet and explained why, so maybe taking it upon yourself to offer suggestions would have been courteous instead of telling me to google for 10 minutes. Don't need the personal commentary, and I'm open to criticism. But what you're offering doesn't feel like anything more than a scolding, and maybe questioning whether or not I'm mixed up in fraud?! So while I appreciate the advice, feel free to refrain from offering any more as it will fall on deaf ears. You might want to take a look at how you're offering advice, or just talking to people in general if you want to run a successful business. To quote you, sorry if that sounds harsh. Thanks again.

[Theresa Harris]

Get a copy of the report they filed with the post office (and if it is truly was someone working in the post office who stole it, they should be getting the police involved) and copies of the money orders.  For June rent and all others, pick up the money orders in person or have them meet you at a location halfway between your house and the rental.  If you didn't notice the rent wasn't paid for 2 months, it is probably because you have good reserves. Wait a few weeks to see what the post office says and then work on a payment plan.

[Joehn B.]

Bottom line the payment never reached you.  They bear the responsibility to pay you (again).

Now, it's also on them to raise the issue with Police/USPS IG and get that investigated but work it out with them by tacking on a payment plan over say two years?

as for how?  write them a polite letter, with your request for payment with the option(s) that work for you.  (lump sump, payments etc)

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

1. I appreciate that viewpoint, since this is what I'm wrestling with. I agree with the mortgage payment metaphor, although it's not exactly the same circumstances, so that's why I'm not 100% settled on course of action.

2. Appreciate this opinion as well. I've successfully self-managed 3 properties for many years. I've always figured below a certain number was manageable, and it has been. Over the years, only the last two tenants placed in two properties a few months ago have requested electronic payment, and that was when we were setting up business accounts and realized they want to charge for ACH, which I'm not doing. So that's one of the reasons I came back to BP: to see what fellow landlords are using nowadays. Instead of telling me I'm in over my head, why don't you offer some solutions for me rather than offering solid advice of it only takes 10 minutes? Thanks anyway.

 Mostly because it's just not a question that someone who is successfully running a business - and that's what this is - needs to ask. It sounds more likely that you managed by luck rather than by design over that time, and that's not at all usual for "mom and pop" operations, but they also often end up spending more and making less than they would with a property manager because of poor management. No one who successfully runs a business fails to notice that they haven't been paid for a couple of months. That may sound harsh but it's the truth. 

As for online payments, which you didn't ask about so I didn't offer, apartments.com, Zillow, and turbo tenant are 3 right off the top of my head that are free to use to collect payments online. 

And as for the missing rent, it's exactly the same situation unless you're somehow mixed up in the fraud. Let's say your mortgage company forgot to bill you one month but you sent the payment anyway, and then the next month after you made payment they said "we didn't receive your payment" and you collectively found that your payments were stolen and fraudulently cashed. Do you think you wouldn't them owe those two payments and the mortgage company would offer to split it with you?

 JD, while I appreciate your input, I just think you and I aren't a good mix. You have no idea who I am or what I do, or how I run any of my businesses. Nor do I feel like I need to explain any of it or why it happened. I came here for advice, constructive criticisms even. I may not have asked specifically for electronic payment recommendations because I did that on a different post, dedicated to asking ONLY that question. But, I did make mention in the first paragraph that I haven't figured that out yet and explained why, so maybe taking it upon yourself to offer suggestions would have been courteous instead of telling me to google for 10 minutes. Don't need the personal commentary, and I'm open to criticism. But what you're offering doesn't feel like anything more than a scolding, and maybe questioning whether or not I'm mixed up in fraud?! So while I appreciate the advice, feel free to refrain from offering any more as it will fall on deaf ears. You might want to take a look at how you're offering advice, or just talking to people in general if you want to run a successful business. To quote you, sorry if that sounds harsh. Thanks again.

 No,but doesn't bother me because I'm the opposite of fragile. I'm anti fragile. I don't come out to ask opinions, then feel the need to rebut those that hurt my feelings. I've been here for a decade, and I'll be here for another decade long after you've gone. You are right, though, in that we aren't a good mix. You don't want constructive criticism, you want soft pedaling and easy tosses. I'll leave that to other posters and wish you good luck :)

[Michael Smythe]

@Amanda Bahil our lease states that we are not responsible for payments lost in the mail or stolen - specifically to cover events like this.

Because of events like this, we also charge tenants a $10 Processing Fee if they send us rent via mail - to encourage them to pay electronically or deposit directly in our business bank account.

Unlike the comments of others, we see this as 100% the tenant's problem, though not their fault.

How do you think a lender for a mortgage or car payment would treat this?
How much of the past due balance would they forgive?

[Henry T.]

You messed up. Figure out a way to better monitor your finances. They still owe you the rent. If you want to give away money that's up to you. No other business would.

[Amanda Bahil]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Amanda Bahil:

Quote from @JD Martin:

1. Since you never received the money in your mailbox, even though you didn't notice, they are responsible for the missing rent. Let them pay you the missing rent and proceed with the fraud investigation. If I send out my mortgage payment and someone steals it from the post office, the mortgage company doesn't tell me I can just consider those paid and they'll try to figure out who stole it. Until they get the money, it's my responsibility. 

2. Get a PM. You are in way over your head if you haven't figured out any way to accept money other than from a money order in the mail. It literally takes less than 10 minutes to set up free online rent payment at one of the several who offer it for nothing, and another 10 minutes to set up accounts such as Square or Stripe to collect via credit cards and other electronic payments. 

1. I appreciate that viewpoint, since this is what I'm wrestling with. I agree with the mortgage payment metaphor, although it's not exactly the same circumstances, so that's why I'm not 100% settled on course of action.

2. Appreciate this opinion as well. I've successfully self-managed 3 properties for many years. I've always figured below a certain number was manageable, and it has been. Over the years, only the last two tenants placed in two properties a few months ago have requested electronic payment, and that was when we were setting up business accounts and realized they want to charge for ACH, which I'm not doing. So that's one of the reasons I came back to BP: to see what fellow landlords are using nowadays. Instead of telling me I'm in over my head, why don't you offer some solutions for me rather than offering solid advice of it only takes 10 minutes? Thanks anyway.

 Mostly because it's just not a question that someone who is successfully running a business - and that's what this is - needs to ask. It sounds more likely that you managed by luck rather than by design over that time, and that's not at all usual for "mom and pop" operations, but they also often end up spending more and making less than they would with a property manager because of poor management. No one who successfully runs a business fails to notice that they haven't been paid for a couple of months. That may sound harsh but it's the truth. 

As for online payments, which you didn't ask about so I didn't offer, apartments.com, Zillow, and turbo tenant are 3 right off the top of my head that are free to use to collect payments online. 

And as for the missing rent, it's exactly the same situation unless you're somehow mixed up in the fraud. Let's say your mortgage company forgot to bill you one month but you sent the payment anyway, and then the next month after you made payment they said "we didn't receive your payment" and you collectively found that your payments were stolen and fraudulently cashed. Do you think you wouldn't them owe those two payments and the mortgage company would offer to split it with you?

 JD, while I appreciate your input, I just think you and I aren't a good mix. You have no idea who I am or what I do, or how I run any of my businesses. Nor do I feel like I need to explain any of it or why it happened. I came here for advice, constructive criticisms even. I may not have asked specifically for electronic payment recommendations because I did that on a different post, dedicated to asking ONLY that question. But, I did make mention in the first paragraph that I haven't figured that out yet and explained why, so maybe taking it upon yourself to offer suggestions would have been courteous instead of telling me to google for 10 minutes. Don't need the personal commentary, and I'm open to criticism. But what you're offering doesn't feel like anything more than a scolding, and maybe questioning whether or not I'm mixed up in fraud?! So while I appreciate the advice, feel free to refrain from offering any more as it will fall on deaf ears. You might want to take a look at how you're offering advice, or just talking to people in general if you want to run a successful business. To quote you, sorry if that sounds harsh. Thanks again.

 No,but doesn't bother me because I'm the opposite of fragile. I'm anti fragile. I don't come out to ask opinions, then feel the need to rebut those that hurt my feelings. I've been here for a decade, and I'll be here for another decade long after you've gone. You are right, though, in that we aren't a good mix. You don't want constructive criticism, you want soft pedaling and easy tosses. I'll leave that to other posters and wish you good luck :)

@JD Martin Nope, criticism ok. Soft pedaling isn't helpful - but neither were your remarks. I don't care if the suggestions are wrapped in harsh criticism, but at least offer some! And I'm here - and STILL here against all odds. You have no idea where I started, and what I've had to do to even get to where I am. And trust me, I'll be here as long as you. Why are you here even commenting at all on this post? You realize, you saw my post said to yourself, oh look at this idiot, and decided to take to your keyboard to in essence tell me just that, without offering much in return! You were not helpful, just wagging a finger. And if you go back and reread my OP, you'll see I'm already pretty much saying I know I f*cked up. This is a place for mentorship - even if that includes harsh criticism. But at least attempt to give some guidance along with your scolding. Again, thanks but no thanks. Feel free to comment AGAIN even though there was no need for you to do it before, as there isn't now. THANKS - Especially for the lesson that not everybody is for everybody! 

[Jim K.]

@Amanda Bahil

This is one of the rare times I'm going to disagree with @JD Martin.

I think splitting the difference and losing a month's rent with this boondoggle, if you can ascertain that it is really what the tenant says it is (which does sound doubtful), is the way to go.

You've got to work the landlord-tenant relationship. You simply have to. That relationship, at least on the tenant's end, is ultimately based on emotion.

The tenant has already been told they've lost their money to a criminal through no fault of their own. If you go the brute-force approach (as JD insists), now they're being told they have to make good on your end, despite the fact that your lack of following up and making sure the money got to you for a month contributed to their loss of the second month's loss. There's a lack of compassion there and a lack of acknowledgement that, well, their money is obviously worth a lot more to them than it is to you. There's a fundamental impersonal resentment in every society about giving richer and more powerful people more money out of the pockets of poorer and weaker people. This would feed into the resentment.

In the wisdom of Machiavelli: "...(A)bove all things he [the Prince] must keep his hands off the property of others, because men more quickly forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony."

I do not go around and tell my tenants that the most socially worthwhile and beneficial thing they're doing with their money is giving as much of it as they do to me. I do think it, privately, especially when I see some of the stupid other things they spend it on. How many brand-new KIAs can our tenant go through while we go on with our old Toyota before we realize the tenant has no concept of what to do with more money other than going into more personal debt with it?

I'd take the hit, I really would. I'd call it what it is, my tuition payment in this game to follow up on rent payments. God knows I've paid out more for lesser reason.

[Ned J.]

To put it bluntly..... not my problem. 

You can be understanding, empathetic, compassionate and accommodating to make good on the $$, but at the end of the day, this isn't my problem. I didn't steal the rent payment. I had ZERO influence on it getting stolen. Not my rodeo, not my clown..... not my problem. I sympathize with their plight, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm not going to now assume the impact of the crime that occurred. 

Since I kind of messed up with not noting the issue sooner, I'm going to be accommodating and waive late fees and set up a payment schedule over a couple of months to make up the lost rent.... but I'm not eating the full $$ or even a portion of it. Nope....

And I would unquestionably want hard core documentation of the actual theft and investigation.... this smells of complete BS, so I would want a TON of evidence that its not before I would consider any change in normal protocol.