$5,000 trashout expense?

Question

I wanted to see if anyone's ever come across something like this before. I have a 2 bedroom, 1 bath unit (about 900 square feet). A tenant lived there for years and passed away and everything was pretty much left abandoned without family to take it. There was a lot of trash and junk in the unit (borderline hoarder), a few buckets filled with feces apparently. The unit had to be treated twice for pests.

Property Manager gave me an invoice (pretty weak one without much detail and it was their own, not from the company they used) that said the dumpster fee was about $425 (reasonable including haul-away), but then the labor fee for the trash out was over $4,000, and with a few other things thrown in, it was nearly $5,000. Now, I've had a number of turns before, but I have never heard of anything like this for a trash out only. Granted, I've never had a unit left with so much junk inside, however I don’t understand how a trash out (no repairs) is coming to $5,000, when all they had to do was haul everything to the dumpster and then treat the place for pests.

Has anyone ever come across something similar to this? Any response is appreciated. Many thanks.

John Underwood · Answer

Did they have to empty dumpster multiple times?

I have to pay that much but the dumpster has to be emptied 3 times.

Once I got a Bob cat to scoop up all the hoarders junk in the yard and load the dumpster.

The PM should never have let this house get so bad and should bear some responsibility.

Bill B. · Answer

My only problems are 1) $425 sounds like one dumpster, a pretty small job. But as mentioned above maybe it’s $2,000 worth of mold and ozone treatment or tobacco stain. See if they will break down the services?

My second, and larger problem is thee should be no way they are authorized to spend $5,000 of your money without your prior approval. Usually it’s $250, sometimes it $500. Think of it this way. What if the bill was $50,000?

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

Good replies above, but the one takeaway for you should be - get a new PM! How did it get this bad in the first place? That kind of filth doesn't happen in a few months.....

Nathan Gesner · Answer

This is something that would normally be handled by laborers at $20/hr. Even a professional cleaner would be $30 - $35/hr. Hire two cleaners at $25 per hour for three 8-hour days, that's $1,200.

Your PM needs to provide you with a break-down of costs and the costs should be justified.

You need a new PM. If the Tenant lived there "for years" then your PM should be inspecting at least once a year. They should have seen the situation and terminated the lease. This problem grew because your PM failed to perform their basic job. Inspections should take place at least once a year, even for the best tenants.

Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!

Will Fraser · Answer

Could be excessive, or could be cheap.  It really depends on the work that was done.

Did they have to move the entire houseful of contents?

Did they have to store ^^ contents according to local Landlord Tenant Laws?

Did they have to do ozonation treatments or any other extreme odor remediation?

If there were enough pests to merit a treatment and re-treat, was there really 0 damage?

I could see $4,000 as a fair price for clearing a hoarder's pest invested mess up and getting the unit to rent-ready, but I'm POSITIVE you could have it done cheaper.  That's always the case . . . always . . . but the bliss is that IF your PM is working in integrity and if they know their local pricing then it should be a light and trust-laden thing to know that IF they paid that THEN it must be the going rate.

IMO

Matthew Paul · Answer

Once you said buckets with human waste it reminded me of a house I was asked to clean out and redo .  I wont go into detail , only that I walked in 10 feet , started gaging and ran outside and threw up . If it wasnt crawling , it was dead and rotting .  I told the guy I would tear the house down with equipment , but I wouldnt send a human into that house no matter what the price .

Was $5000 high . , If it was as bad as what I saw it was a bargain .  But after the fact there is no way to tell

Henry T. · Answer

When was the last property inspection and what did it reveal? Was there evicdence of hoarding then? What did the PM do to ensure that the house and all possible fire exits were safe?

Is the place now spic and span and ready to rent? Then yeah, cleaning up a hoarder is worth 5k.

But for a large bill such as this I'd want details of labor payments, dump trips, fees, hourly rates, and signed receipts. Or sue him.

Does his contract OK this kind of expenditure without your approval? If you said yes, and benefited, you owe him.

Steve Vaughan · Answer

Either do or at least over-see the work personally or stroke a check.

Can't work 'on your business' vs in it and complain or be confused.

The hidden cost of being passive and having a PM is higher repair and maintenance costs and your never being there to see it.

Hopefully they did a good job.

Malkia Ra · Answer

That number is ridiculously high for a clean-out only.  Considering the property manager didn't provide you with any of the third party documentation, I'd say those numbers were definitely inflated.  Not to mention, there should be regular inspections done on your rentals.  The lease should indicate this.  Considering the tenant's living conditions, it certainly sounds like no one dropped by to evaluate the condition of your rental in years.  Lastly, what's in your agreement with them regarding maximum dollar amount for expenditures?  A PM having the autonomy to rack up a $5k bill without prior approval sounds suspect, unless you ok'd this in your contract.

If I were in your position I'd require the PM to provide me with backup invoices confirming their numbers; their response would determine whether or not I'd continue to retain them.  Additionally, I'd revise my lease template to include regular dwelling inspections.

Dave Jackson · Answer

Waiting on additional details, but looks like two dumpster runs. Labor, they're saying $50 an hour, but then we're talking between 60-70 hours of labor given the cost breakdown, which again, seems completely unresonable.

$5,000 trashout expense?

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