Tenant coming after me for not renewing lease
Real Estate Agent · Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 32 votes
Tenant coming after me for not renewing lease
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4yQuote from @Ryan Camenisch:
In May of this year I told a tenant I would not be renewing her lease due to a variety of issues my PM has had with her, primarily being late on rent every single month and not communicating or responding to his correspondence.
Anyhow, she went absolutely nuts and started calling and texting me day after day and has now filed a complaint with the Fair Housing Council and has taken to attacking/harassing me online.
As a realtor, I know I am not discriminating based on any protected class and I do want to lease her unit out to a family friend who needs a place to live. Is this a sufficient reason for not renewing her lease? Do I even need to provide a reason for non-renewal?
Am I in the wrong and do I need to worry about any legal recourse?
Any real estate attorneys or seasoned landlords who can weigh in, I will be very grateful.
1. You don't need to justify why you are not renewing the lease;
2. Her behavior demonstrates non-renewal was the right decision;
3. Why does she have your contact information if there is a PM in place?
4. Why isn't your PM answering your questions instead of forcing you to ask strangers on the internet?
5. Why isn't your PM taking the lead on this and protecting you and your time?
A good PM would not share your contact information. If you offered your contact information, your PM should have stopped you from doing it. This is a perfect example of why I don't want owners and tenants contacting each other! If your PM has everything properly documented, they shouldn't have any concerns about the tenant contacting Fair Housing or anyone else to file complaints. I would also point out that a good PM would have dealt with her a long time ago since she's paying rent late every month and not communicating, two reasons I would use to justify termination early.
A good PM will protect your property, income, time, and sanity. Your PM is failing on all four counts.
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17 Replies
- Investor · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2018 · 263 posts · 216 votes4y
As long as you have good records indicating that the tenant frequently violated the terms of the lease (ie. did not pay rent on time) then you should be fine. Just ensure you upheld your end of the lease, ie. issued proper notifications to the tenant, etc.
- Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes4y
What do your state laws say about lease renewals? Did you give notices to quit?
if you have a PM, why are you dealing with this and getting involved? - Property Manager · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Quote from @Joe Martella:
What do your state laws say about lease renewals? Did you give notices to quit?
if you have a PM, why are you dealing with this and getting involved?Second this - why isn't your PM handling this?
To your OP, the answer is it depends on your State and Local laws/rules/regulations. In Baltimore, for instance, landlords are required to renew leases unless a specific qualifying event takes place (e.g., tenant is delinquent on rent, landlord is opting to remove the unit from the rental market, etc.). Your PM should know about your local laws and if they don't you should find a new PM.
- Real Estate Agent · Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 32 votes4y
Law requires 30 day notice, we have 60.
My PM is an in house guy and he is handling it, but the tenant was able to track down my name and since I’m a realtor my phone number and email address are readily available online so she’s been able to contact me repeatedly.
Anyhow, my PM has followed necessary protocol, I just want to make sure I’m not at risk of “violating human rights” as my tenant claims
- Real Estate Agent · Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 32 votes4y
Law requires 30 day notice, we gave 60.
My PM is an in house guy and he is handling it, but the tenant was able to track down my name and since I’m a realtor my phone number and email address are readily available online so she’s been able to contact me repeatedly.
Anyhow, my PM has followed necessary protocol, I just want to make sure I’m not at risk of “violating human rights” as my tenant claims
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
If this is a legitimate reason that you evenly apply to all the same way it should be ok. For me, it's not grounds to not renew. They would be paying a late fee and if not over a month past due, it's all good. You cannot default on a home loan for just being late a few days. In terms of communicating, that could be multitudes of reasons. One thing that stuck out to me was when you elaborated on a protected class. I'm sure there are some that may read or interpret some of this as searching for a reason to get rid of someone to give favor to a family member. Maybe the tenant senses this. I dont know all the dynamics here but if its an honest violation of your business model and there is no conscious or subconscious bias to this specific tenant it should be cool. If these are violations you have have discontinued a lease for in the past when there was no desire to have another tenant you are covered.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Quote from @Ryan Camenisch:
In May of this year I told a tenant I would not be renewing her lease due to a variety of issues my PM has had with her, primarily being late on rent every single month and not communicating or responding to his correspondence.
Anyhow, she went absolutely nuts and started calling and texting me day after day and has now filed a complaint with the Fair Housing Council and has taken to attacking/harassing me online.
As a realtor, I know I am not discriminating based on any protected class and I do want to lease her unit out to a family friend who needs a place to live. Is this a sufficient reason for not renewing her lease? Do I even need to provide a reason for non-renewal?
Am I in the wrong and do I need to worry about any legal recourse?
Any real estate attorneys or seasoned landlords who can weigh in, I will be very grateful.
1. You don't need to justify why you are not renewing the lease;
2. Her behavior demonstrates non-renewal was the right decision;
3. Why does she have your contact information if there is a PM in place?
4. Why isn't your PM answering your questions instead of forcing you to ask strangers on the internet?
5. Why isn't your PM taking the lead on this and protecting you and your time?
A good PM would not share your contact information. If you offered your contact information, your PM should have stopped you from doing it. This is a perfect example of why I don't want owners and tenants contacting each other! If your PM has everything properly documented, they shouldn't have any concerns about the tenant contacting Fair Housing or anyone else to file complaints. I would also point out that a good PM would have dealt with her a long time ago since she's paying rent late every month and not communicating, two reasons I would use to justify termination early.
A good PM will protect your property, income, time, and sanity. Your PM is failing on all four counts.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - 4yMatthew Irish-JonesBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Ryan Camenisch:
In May of this year I told a tenant I would not be renewing her lease due to a variety of issues my PM has had with her, primarily being late on rent every single month and not communicating or responding to his correspondence.
Anyhow, she went absolutely nuts and started calling and texting me day after day and has now filed a complaint with the Fair Housing Council and has taken to attacking/harassing me online.
As a realtor, I know I am not discriminating based on any protected class and I do want to lease her unit out to a family friend who needs a place to live. Is this a sufficient reason for not renewing her lease? Do I even need to provide a reason for non-renewal?
Am I in the wrong and do I need to worry about any legal recourse?
Any real estate attorneys or seasoned landlords who can weigh in, I will be very grateful.
Bro you got a PM company for a reason. Let them take the heat that is why you pay them!!! You should never have direct contact with your tenants. I own 50 units in Buffalo NY and own the PM company that manages the units. I do not deal with any tenants directly, its just not a best practice. We have systems in place for everything, we have a texting system that auto logs communication to their tenant file, cameras in our facility that record video and audio, our phones are recorded, emails auto link, there is nothing for tenants to say when we have a mountain of data and all notices recorded in the system. That ends a lot of arguments up front.
Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews - Realtor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2020 · 255 posts · 182 votes4y
You should be in the clear. Save the receipts primarily of her delinquency and then also her messages to you in case you need to make a case for harassment (hopefully it doesn't get that far). But in MD all you need for a reason to not renew is the fact that she isn't paying her rent on time.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
You shouldn't need any reason to not renew..... It is your property, do what you want with it. Of course, in today's crazy world, make sure you don't get into trouble. But she sounds like a tenant no one would want.
- Real Estate Agent · Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 32 votes4y
Thank you all for your comments and advice. I really appreciate it.
As for my property manager, he is an in-house guy (one man show) employed directly by me and manages only my properties. It is unfortunate the tenant was able to find my name and reach out to me directly but I don't blame him. I own the property under an LLC but that LLC is registered under my name with the state and since I'm a realtor I'm easy to find online.
All that to say we have records of nearly 12 months of consistently late/delinquent rent payments on top of a very poor communication from the tenant, if any at all, so it seems like I’m in the clear. - South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 374 posts · 432 votes4y
@Ryan Camenisch
For most states you don’t need to give a reason not to renew a lease. I NEVER give a reason because: 1)It won’t make the tenant feel better, 2)I Don’t have to AND 3) When you give a reason you could end up running afoul of some discrimination or retaliation law. Don’t take the chance. I just send correspondence stating ‘We have decided not to renew your lease’ When they ask “Why?” I send the exact same message until they stop asking. This way you’re legally covered.
- Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes4y
Quote from @Ryan Camenisch:
...
All that to say we have records of nearly 12 months of consistently late/delinquent rent payments on top of a very poor communication from the tenant, if any at all, so it seems like I’m in the clear.You should tell her that "Karen" is not a protected class, and she should consider the ramifications of having an eviction on her record 🙂
- Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes4y
1) don’t give a reason if you’re not renewing, just don’t.
2) As mentioned, if they are paying within a couple weeks and paying the late fee I would probably have offered them a renewal for MTM at market plus $100 or $200/mo. This is to deal with the hassle of not getting paid on time. But it also gives the tenant to “be in charge of the decision to not renew”. They renew and you’re happy because you’re getting paid extra to deal with them, they don’t renew you’re happy for the chance to move on drama free.
- Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes4y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Ryan Camenisch:
In May of this year I told a tenant I would not be renewing her lease due to a variety of issues my PM has had with her, primarily being late on rent every single month and not communicating or responding to his correspondence.
Anyhow, she went absolutely nuts and started calling and texting me day after day and has now filed a complaint with the Fair Housing Council and has taken to attacking/harassing me online.
As a realtor, I know I am not discriminating based on any protected class and I do want to lease her unit out to a family friend who needs a place to live. Is this a sufficient reason for not renewing her lease? Do I even need to provide a reason for non-renewal?
Am I in the wrong and do I need to worry about any legal recourse?
Any real estate attorneys or seasoned landlords who can weigh in, I will be very grateful.
1. You don't need to justify why you are not renewing the lease;
2. Her behavior demonstrates non-renewal was the right decision;
3. Why does she have your contact information if there is a PM in place?
4. Why isn't your PM answering your questions instead of forcing you to ask strangers on the internet?
5. Why isn't your PM taking the lead on this and protecting you and your time?
A good PM would not share your contact information. If you offered your contact information, your PM should have stopped you from doing it. This is a perfect example of why I don't want owners and tenants contacting each other! If your PM has everything properly documented, they shouldn't have any concerns about the tenant contacting Fair Housing or anyone else to file complaints. I would also point out that a good PM would have dealt with her a long time ago since she's paying rent late every month and not communicating, two reasons I would use to justify termination early.
A good PM will protect your property, income, time, and sanity. Your PM is failing on all four counts.
You are a goldmine of useful knowledge. I manage some of my properties and have PM on others. This is something I will bookmark for future reference on what to expect from a PM. Thanks for sharing
- Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 596 votes4y
@Ryan Camenisch
You do not need any reason to not release
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Ryan Camenisch You are not wrong and you have a lot of good advice already but just a thought Block her number...... You don't have to talk to her if you have a PM. Caller ID and call blocking are great modern inventions.
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