Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
So I've hired a contractor to put new siding up on a MF property. Right next door is a not-for-profit that is a halfway house. My contractor is a pretty reputable and nice guy - he went next door, knocked and asked permission to put his ladder up on their side of the fence because that's the only way to get at the siding.
They said sure, just don't talk or interact with anybody staying there. Well a few hours later he's up on the ladder and they come out and tell him to get off their property or they will call the cops. I've called and left a message for the director to call me back, and the lady I spoke with sounded like she had her panties all in a bunch about it as well.
Can anybody think of a reason why they would care if the contractor puts his ladder up over there?
Assuming they continue to refuse to let us be over there, is there anything we can do to legally do the work? There is absolutely no way to do the work without putting the ladder on their side of the fence - there's not even enough room for scaffolding. Any ideas/suggestions would be great. I'm trying to go the route of a nice conversation, but it sounds like that may not work.
Rental Property Investor · St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 79 posts · 24 votes
12y
Beyond liability, if they are providing drug/alcohol rehab to persons still under the control of the courts through probation type arrangements, there may be some legal reasons that they have to limit contact with outside persons who could supply drugs.
Scaffolding? Priming a middle finger on that side of the property for a few days may relieve some stress. No, we never totally grow up.
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y
I have seen a scaffolding type set up, only narrower. It's like two vertical rails, secured to the side of the building, with jack up brackets, maybe 40-50-' apart, with a narrow, 18-24" scaffold type walkway supported between. Don't know what you call them, saw it on some home improvement type show, filmed up north. Sorry if I was too specific!
Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 123 posts · 27 votes
12y
I don't know how you can make the neighbor allow access to their property but the contractor might be able to use a hanging scaffold like window washers use.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
My sheetrock hangers have professional stiltz that they attach to their legs to get to the higher areas and ceilings. Maybe those can be rented somewhere?
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Thanks for the replies everybody!
The stilts are a good idea, but we're talking a 2nd story here, so I don't think that will work. Not sure it would be a good idea to try and get somebody 15' up on stilts and make them work.
The scaffolding really won't work, even something skinny would not fit, the 2nd story is probably about 6" away from where the fence is.
It sounds like the hanging scaffolding might be the only option. I'd hate to have to add that expense though. Anybody ever rented that stuff? I have a feeling that's going to end up costing as much as the whole siding job.
If the issue is potential contact with the residents, maybe I can offer to pay the director to supervise for the hour or two that they'll need to be out there. I'll let you guys know how it gets resolved!
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Haha...I like that suggestion @J Scott . The halfway house already has a 360 degree camera installed. They are actually a pretty quiet/nice neighbor to have, I just need to figure out how to twist their proverbial arm a bit.
Putting beer on my side of the fence wouldn't do much good as nobody would be able to see it. If push comes to shove, maybe I'll put some unopened beers on the top of each fence post :)
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Yep, we're both open to sign a release and everybody is insured. The person I spoke with sounded like her and/or her director were not interested in playing nice though. If they won't be cooperative I think we'll just have to go the route of having the police called on us. It should only take a couple hours, so we might be able to get everything done before the cops actually show up.
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Michael Seeker I hate to sound like a lawyer but whose fence is it? Yours or theirs? Where is the actual property line at? It's probably not in the middle of the fence. If it is you can tear it down. I rather doubt your property line ends at the side of your house but they sometimes do. If the fence is just inside their property line then they had to come onto your property to put it up. Dirt from where they dug holes trespassed onto your land, or stepped onto it to attach screws etc. Why are they not granting you the same courtesy they got from you or your predecessor?
Non profits get their money from somewhere. Go to the source, protest, etc. If they see you going after their funding saying things like they are a bad neighbor it really hurts them getting money from the their 2 sources, the government or donations. I work with a lot of non profit organizations funding is the holy grail. if it is in danger they will do all they can to protect it.
It has also been my experience that folks who are donating to help others, not necessarily the paid director but someone with authority in the chain, maybe the board, volunteer because they like to help others. If you can get to those folks and explain why it is so necessary and why it will help you so much and the neighborhood they will probably try to help you. I have served on many boards like this. You are trying to be a good neighbor, keep your place nice and neat, show respect for your tenants and neighbors by keeping it nice and not being a slumlord, can they please help you meet these goals? Sure just let a guy put their ladder on their side for a few hours. Good luck and please post how this turns out.
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Michaela G. , that wouldn't help a tenant is usually given exclusive control over the property they rent. If it is a multi unit property then control is limited to the area where they live.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
But a landlord can give 24 hr or whatever notice, if you wants to do some repairs on his own properties - like checking that the fence is level and not about to fall down or something. Check the fence for holes, because the neighbor complained about rats coming over. I'm sure if they want to, the owner can find a reason.
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Unfortunately the charity also owns the building. That is a great point @Jerry W. - They were definitely the ones that put the fence up judging by the rest of the fencing around my property vs. that side. And there's no way they could have done so without coming on my property. I'll look for survey stakes and see if I can find out where exactly the property line is in relation to the fence. In my area there is usually about 3' between properties on both sides with a sidewalk in between. One of the two buildings usually owns the whole sidewalk, so it's not uncommon for the property to be right up on the property line. In my case, I'm sure there's a few inches between the bldg and property line, but with it being on the 2nd story, a few inches isn't enough to put a ladder up.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
I like leveraging the fence. If the place has a board of directors I would take that to them and mention that you would be happy to return the favor of access should they need to get on your property to maintain theirs. Not allowing you to come on the property for this limited item now will impact them later. You would like to know what conditions they would want to impose to let you accomplish this short term access for maintenance. You are happy to work with them.
It also would help if you know exactly what the issue they have is. You might not be able to pay the director for the extra supervision but if the issue is residents being present while you work and you only need a day or two you may be able to work with them about getting residents off site, or put temporary fences up etc. Alternately , if the issue is knowing who is coming on site and getting clearances , background checks that could be done. If the issue is the contractor forgot to take the ladder down you may need to supervise that. It also depends on what kind of halfway house drugs? , prison? do they think they are following a regulation and the director needs to be informed that it doesn't apply the way she thinks. ? Fax a request to the board of directors maybe?
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Are you in a HOA? Sometimes, that can actually be a help. We had to rebuild a shed and only way to replace siding on property line side was go into their yard to do it. They complained, but the HOA managers came and told them to knock it off, that we were allowed access to fix our property per the guidelines.
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Thanks for all the suggestions/replies. It all boiled down to a miscommunication and an apparent power trip. From what I gather, one of the workers talked to somebody who said they could put up their ladders on their property to do the work. The problem was that the director wasn't around when this occurred and she never gave the okay...so she came up itching up a storm and threatened to call the cops if they didn't leave. They left immediately, so she complained to me over the phone that they left all kinds of trash etc.
After several apologies and promises that it was just a mix-up I got her to agree to let us on the property as long as we notify her first so that she can make sure there is no contact between tenants and workers.
For the time being it seems like everything will just work itself out, although I'm waiting til the work is completed before I believe it!
COCKEYSVILLE, MD · Member since 2009 · 65 posts · 28 votes
12y
Based on your description of other properties, you need to determine if the fence is installed with the proper setback limits. It may even be on your property.
Investor · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2013 · 17 posts · 0 votes
12y
Michael S., have you checked to see if there is a maintenance easement that would legally allow you access? Often when buildings are on a zero lot line or have very tight setbacks, an easement is required to get the project approved when it was originally developed.
PS, I wouldn't go the beer route, it will only make the directors of the halfway house angry and your chances of getting them to cooperate less likely.
Buy and Hold Investor · Commack, NY · Member since 2008 · 353 posts · 33 votes
12y
Sounds like you got it worked out, but if not, you could try putting together an "Temporary Access Agreement" that describes in writing the measures you are going to take to address any specific concerns, probably have you or your contractor name the Non-Profit as additional insured for that specific job, and maybe agree to a specific "donation" amount to their facility for the "trouble". That would be less expensive than paying for a boom lift or any type of scaffolding.