Earnest Money Dispute - San Diego, California... Please Help

Earnest Money Dispute - San Diego, California... Please Help

New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes

Hello All,

I submitted a Contract Cancellation earlier today to the sellers agent and now they either want all my EMD or we take this to arbitration. We removed contingencies 8 days ago but we received an updated disclosure from the seller 2 days ago. Closing date is suppose to be 8/16. According to my realtor and their attorneys, the CAR states that after receiving an disclosure new or update that we have 3 days to review it as a buyer and are able to cancel the contract depending on the situation. So the disclosure was from the termite repair being conducted on the home. At first it was just a spot damage repair but now they're taking stuff apart and replacing doors etc.

This is my first home and there are already many problems with the property. Leak in pipes, gas leaks, the electrical work isn't to code. So at first I was ok with that but now they're ripping through the house because of the termites. So from my perspective its just snowballing and I was expecting it to be turnkey. 

So we spoke to the sellers agent and obviously the sellers arent happy. They want to take this to arbitration and keep the entire $10k EMD. I have heard many things from different brokers and agents but am receiving mixed responses. If there is anyone that has actually gone through this process please let me know.

Questions:

1. Is the seller allowed to place the property back on the market if I didn't release escrow.

2. Can they actually PROVE damages that lets them keep the entire $10k. (It hasn't been a month since we signed the contract)

3. Should I get an actual RE attorney involved?

So I was told that in CA, proving damages is hard for the seller. All those repairs they are doing was required no matter the buyer anyway. They were all safety issues. I was also told that I hold all the cards since the property will be held up if i don't release escrow. As long as I don't sign the agreement to release funds to seller then they can't do anything about it. They also can't sell their home until then. I know it's a D*** move, but I'm not here to make friends and I'm not in the habit of letting money go when I don't have to legally. So if there is anyone that has gone through this process please chime in.

NOTE: I know agents that have never lost EMD for the buyer even after contingencies were removed but my realtor is NOT that guy. He's never been through this process which is a little unnerving for me. He seems hesitant but I need to make sure I get him to do whats right for me.


Thanks,
Pat

0Reply
22 views

Most Popular Reply

Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y

Hi @Patrick Senas,

This is right up lawyer alley. I'd want my agent's broker and the other agent's broker to have a conversation first as solving big issues like this is a part of their job, but if that didn't do it It'd be lawyer time for me.

See this reply in the discussion

17 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Hi @Patrick Senas,

    This is right up lawyer alley. I'd want my agent's broker and the other agent's broker to have a conversation first as solving big issues like this is a part of their job, but if that didn't do it It'd be lawyer time for me.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    Hi @Chris Mason,

    My realtor mentioned that he was going to get his broker to discuss this with the sellers broker. Hopefully we can resolve this at the lowest possible level. I mean what damages can they really claim for the property being 3 weeks off the market? They literally just posted the property back online as I write this.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Senas:

    Hi @Chris Mason,

     I mean what damages can they really claim for the property being 3 weeks off the market? 

     This is 'Merica, they can hire a lawyer to claim whatever the hell they want. No guarantee a court will agree with them, of course. The only thing guaranteed is that there will be legal expenses. Hopefully the broker pow-wow takes care of it - it typically does. I've never actually been involved in a transaction that actually went to litigation, threats notwithstanding & knock on wood.

  • Shawn CouchBusiness Member
    Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 48 votes
    9y

    Oh Patrick. Sounds like you have a little mess.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    Been through this many times here is what happens.

    Seller has to sign cancellation to get your money back.. if they wont it sits in escrow.

    Seller can relist and sell it to someone else no problem just has to use a different title and escrow company ( that's a big fallacy people have thinking they cant sell it)

    You will go to Mediation not arbitration... if you can't settle at mediation you then go to arbitration..

    so what happens is you both lawyer up.. they find a mediator you both agree to.. you both have to split the mediation costs.  So you pay for mediator .. depending on market this could cost 1k to 3k per person. 95% of these are settle there when the mediator whos job it is to settle these things calms you both down and you both agree not to spend more money and just settle.

    If you both still disagree you go to arbitration.. and spend another 2 to 3k each..

    so you can see once the brokers have a come to Jesus with both of you.. financial considerations are taken into account and these things usually get settled. you may have to give them 1 to 2k to make them go away.

    Myself as a seller who would not give EM back when I know I was dead to rights.. I always then just split.. spend no money and take half..

    I know this is not what you want to hear.. but that's how it works..

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs... Well half is definitely better than none. Hopefully we can resolve this without too much heartache. I feel bad for the seller but not $10k worth of bad.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    @Patrick Senas man you have quite the mess also a large EMD. Many moons ago when I was a new agent I had a similar situation happen. The big key will be the talk between the brokers. Hopefully this can be solved without mediation.

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 399 posts · 174 votes
    9y

    Paragraph 14B(3) of the California Residential Purchase Agreement says "...However, if any report, disclosure or information for which Seller is responsible is not Delivered within the time specified in paragraph 14A, then Buyer has 5(or__) Days After Delivery of any such items, or the time specified in paragraph 14B(1), whichever is later, to Deliver to Seller a removal of the applicable contingency or cancellation of this Agreement.

    If you cancelled within this time frame there's nothing more to talk about, the contract is cancelled.  Assuming your agent really delivered it in time.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    David C. my realtor and his broker are not making me feel very comfortable with how we're going to proceed. The broker said prepare to lose it all... not exactly a big vote of confidence in their skills. Granted they may be helping me prepare for worst case but still. The sellers broker said since it's not a NEW disclosure but an update that part of the contract is moot. The part my team is referencing is 12.G. I'm trying to go through the contract again now to try and see if there's any hope for me.
  • Real Estate Agent · Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 193 posts · 128 votes
    9y
    Anytime a new disclosure is provided you have time to examine it. Then you can cancel if you want. Brokers know this. You'll get it released, just might take a little longer than normal.
  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Greg Hamer it seems that my broker and agent have never undergone this process. Hence the crazy amount of undue stress I'm under. It wasn't part of the questions I asked when interviewing them.
  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 399 posts · 174 votes
    9y

    I wouldn't assume your broker is on your side ... they stand to lose a good commission.  I don't see a clause 12G in the standard CAR form revised 12/15.  I know you said the cancellation notice was sent earlier today, are you sure the seller or sellers agent got it?  The reason your broker said be prepared to lose it all is because they are trying to bully you into changing your mind.  As @Greg Hamer said, any time a new disclosure is provided you can cancel, and brokers know this ... they are trying to bully you.  Don't get hung up on the word NEW, I would argue an update IS a new disclosure.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed So I'm actually trying to find the C.A.R. that I signed. They sent me docs on multiple email so it's kind of hard to go through it all. That is what they referenced in the cancellation form I signed today though. 

    They did get the notice though, they re-listed the property an hour after I sent it. Well I hope my broker brings his A game when he talks to the sellers broker. Hopefully he can pull it off for me. 

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed I apologize, the document we are using is the RIPA ver 12/15. 

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 399 posts · 174 votes
    9y

    @Patrick Senas

    I took a look at the RIPA.

    Not a lawyer but here's my take.

    In addition to 12G take a look at 19B(3) and 14, 12G is specific to reports that appear to be unrelated to termite.

    19B(3) says "...However, if any report, disclosure or information for which Seller is responsible is not Delivered within the time specified in paragraph 19A, then Buyer has 5 (or___) Days After Delivery of any such items, or the time specified in paragraph 19B(1), whichever is later, to Deliver to Seller a removal of the applicable contingency or cancellation of this Agreement."

    Looking at 14, this whole thing might turn on who obtained or ordered and paid for the termite report.  If you as buyer ordered and paid for the report than seller is not responsible for the report and 19B(3) appears to not apply thus not giving you the right to cancel.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    David C. I was using a VA loan. The seller was in charge of the termite report and all repairs. We received the updated termite report a couple days ago. Hence why we used it as an exit. I'll bring up that section to my broker when I contact him in the AM to go over a game plan. Thanks for all the advice. I will also be getting in contact with a VA lawyer next business day to provide legal counsel. Possibly with arbitration if it goes that far.
  • Real Estate Agent · Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 193 posts · 128 votes
    9y

    The VA doesn't mess around when it comes to inspections. They might not even finance it if things aren't in tip-top shape. Did you remove your financing contingency?

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.