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Updated over 7 years ago on . Most recent reply

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Jonathan Twombly
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Brooklyn, NY
1,260
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Do you need an LLC? Absolutely. There is No Debate About It.

Jonathan Twombly
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Brooklyn, NY
Posted

The LLC debate rages on here at BP. Rarely does a day pass without an investor asking whether they should use an LLC or not. Perhaps BP should have a whole forum just devoted to this question . . .

Having an LLC is a no-brainer. Real estate is a business, and if you are in business you should not be operating in your own name -- unless the law requires it, such as for certain professionals like lawyers and doctors who society feels should not have their professional liability limited. My knowledge is not exhaustive here, but I am unaware of any jurisdiction that requires you to own investment real estate in your own name.

People are confused because they get a lot of bad advice about LLCs -- what they can and cannot do. They are told -- wrongly in my view -- that they should not bother with LLCs because an LLC will not protect them from liability to a lender or because insurance does the same thing. I will expose the incorrect thinking below.

But first, let's discuss what an LLC actually is. A Limited Liability Company is a corporate form with a separate legal identity. As the name implies, it limits your liability to the value of the asset. It does not eliminate your liability, so when people say you should not bother with an LLC because it does not eliminate all liability, they are confusing the issue. An LLC provides important liability limitation and risk-management capability, and if you are in business you should be taking advantage.

It is true that lenders won't lend to an LLC with no history. If you are new, and the LLC does not have a proven cash flow, a lender will make you sign on the debt yourself. But you should still organize your business in a corporate form, like an LLC. Why? Because banks are not your only potential creditors. Who else is out there? Practically the entire world is a potential creditor. Tenants, vendors, guests of tenants, the mailman, UPS, the cable guy -- in other words, anyone who ever sells anything to the property or sets foot on it is a potential creditor. (Anyone who sets foot on the property is a potential creditor if they slip and fall on the property -- or if they claim they slipped and fell even if they did not.) If the property is owned by an LLC that you own, the LLC is the debtor. If you own the property directly, YOU are the debtor. If an LLC owns the property, the worst the creditor can do to you is take the property. If you own the property, and the property is not worth enough to satisfy the judgment, then the creditor will take the property AND THEN go after your personal assets -- that means your house, your car, your 401(k), your children's 529 plan, your baseball card collection, your monthly paycheck.

Insurance is another must, but it does not replace an LLC. If you have insurance, that's great. It will cover what's in the insurance contract, up to the coverage limit. But insurance does not cover it when you don't pay a vendor. And what if someone is injured on your property and the court awards more than the insurance coverage? If you have an LLC, they may try to go after your assets, but they won't be successful if you have run the business properly. If you own the property in your own name, then you should re-read the previous paragraph about your house, your car, your 401(k), etc.

A very important note about LLCs is, as I said above, that they are separate legal entities. To get LLC protection against creditors, you must respect the separate legal entity. You must IGNORE the advice that some real estate gurus give, which is to run a whole bunch of personal expenses through the LLC. THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO. Will it save you some taxes? Maybe, if you don't get audited. Will it destroy the limited liability protection and expose your personal assets to seizure by creditors? Absolutely.

The biggest complaint against LLCs is that they cost money. Yes, you need to file tax returns for them. Yes, you need to do proper accounting. All this is true. These are all costs of doing business. But, remember, this is a business. You are not in real estate for a hobby. This is where the big boys and girls play. If you are not willing to spend a couple hundred dollars a year on LLC costs, you probably should not be in this business at all. But the real question is: Would you rather have the couple hundred dollars extra each year or the peace of mind knowing that your and your family's personal assets are not exposed because you decided to buy an investment property? That choice is up to you, but to me the answer is obvious.

  • Jonathan Twombly
  • Podcast Guest on Show #172
  • Most Popular Reply

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    Scott Trench
    • President of BiggerPockets
    • Denver, CO
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    Scott Trench
    • President of BiggerPockets
    • Denver, CO
    Replied

    I'm a young investor, and purchased a property via the "house-hacking" method back in November of 2014.  The property is under my name, and I rent out the other side to two wonderful tenants.

    The work has been done Do-It -Yourself style, and I have gone a few months now successfully living rent free.  

    Make no mistake about it, I consider this Duplex to be a business, and run it as such.  I manage the tenants with a separate email address and have a separate bank account for property related expenses.  I pay rent to the business and take money out of the business.

    But the property is under my own name.

    Reading the OP, I am committing a basic fail against common sense as a real estate investor. But I disagree completely. I had several immense advantages in putting this property under my own name that would have been forfeited were the property under an LLC:

    1) I used FHA financing. Try putting down less than 5% on a property within an LLC, especially as a first-time buyer.

    2) I am the occupant of the home.  I can rent to whoever I want, and for any reason whatsoever.  It's MY house, not a rental property, and the laws governing it are as such.

    3) I had much better interest rates on my mortgage than the LLC would have had access to.

    4) My mortgage interest is tax deductible.  In the first few years, where the bulk of my mortgage payments are comprised of interest, this is more advantageous than depreciation.

    5) Assuming I live in the property for more than two years, and the property appreciates, I can sell for a tax-free capital gain.

    The disadvantages are as follows:

    1) Limited protection.  I'm 24 years old and this property is basically the grand total of my worldly assets.  I don't have much to protect.  I also have an umbrella insurance policy.  
    This type of protection is good enough for millions of landlords with far more to lose than I. 

    2) I'm obviously the owner of the property. I can't hide ownership behind an LLC. In my case, this advantage to the LLC is totally moot. The tenants live next door! I'm obviously the owner.

    Conclusion:

    Investing through an LLC would have been extremely expensive for me, setup and legal costs set aside. Furthermore, it would have delayed my first purchase significantly, and taken away subjective advantages in running my business as a personal asset.

    I think that it is shallow to claim that having an LLC is a "no-brainer". I think that at the very least, my argument here shows that it is a debatable topic and that a reasonable person could conclude that there are indeed strong advantages to operating real estate assets under your own name.

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