Little known 401K fact that could save you big tax $$

Little known 401K fact that could save you big tax $$

Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes

I read an article on a financial website a few months ago about this, and filed it away as something that I might be able to use in the future. Yesterday I was talking on the phone with someone from this site who knows a lot about financial planning and it came up in our conversation (I was looking to confirm it). He was not aware of it. That surprised me. So I contacted several people I know who are knowledgeable. So far 3 of the 4 who answered said they were not aware of it. One confirmed it but has no IRS references yet. I have found a few things that say some others consider it fact, but still no hard references in IRS pubs. Guess I might have to contact them directly and ask for references because this could matter for me next year. I suggest that unless someone posts hard references here that you personally confirm this, which I know I will do.

Probably everyone who uses a 401k knows the limits on elective deferrals as it applies to their age group. Most probably know the overall limit of $52,000 total contributions. But did you know that that second limit is a PER PLAN limit, not per person like the elective deferral limit? So if you work a day job, and contribute to a 401k plan, you can potentially have up to $104,000 including profit sharing contributions if you also have a solo 401k plan. I did see references to requirements concerning different employers. For example you can't have plans under two companies you own.

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  • Manhattan, NY · Member since 2012 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    12y

    I don't believe that's true.

    From the IRS website:

    How Much Salary Can You Defer if You’re Eligible for More than One Retirement Plan?

    The amount of salary deferrals you can contribute to retirement plans is your individual limit each calendar year no matter how many plans you're in. This limit must be aggregated for these plan types:

    • 401(k)
    • 403(b)
    • SIMPLE plans (SIMPLE IRA and SIMPLE 401(k) plans)
    • SARSEP

    http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/How-Much-Salary-Can-You-Defer-if-You%E2%80%99re-Eligible-for-More-than-One-Retirement-Plan%3F

    Compensation limit for contributions

    Remember that annual contributions to all of your accounts - this includes elective deferrals, employee contributions, employer matching and discretionary contributions and allocations of forfeitures to your accounts - may not exceed the lesser of 100% of your compensation or $51,000 for 2013 and $52,000 for 2014. In addition, the amount of your compensation that can be taken into account when determining employer and employee contributions is limited. The compensation limitation is $255,000 for 2013 and $260,000 for 2014.

    http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics--401k-and-Profit-Sharing-Plan-Contribution-Limits

  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y

    yes, that is true of salary deferrals, as it states. But that pub does not mention the profit sharing portion. 

  • CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    I don't believe this is possible either. Per the IRS website:

    Compensation limit for contributions

    Remember that annual contributions to all of your accounts - this includes elective deferrals, employee contributions, employer matching and discretionary contributions and allocations of forfeitures to your accounts - may not exceed the lesser of 100% of your compensation or $51,000 for 2013 and $52,000 for 2014. In addition, the amount of your compensation that can be taken into account when determining employer and employee contributions is limited. The compensation limitation is $255,000 for 2013 and $260,000 for 2014. 

    http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics--401k-and-Profit-Sharing-Plan-Contribution-Limits

  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y

    Thank you for pointing out the answer, it was right above what you posted @Brandon Hall  I have read those pamphlets in their circular references so many times I missed this the first 100 times. I was looking for context of your quote, when I saw this. Note the example below, and the bold portion. I believe your quote is referring to all plans held with one employer. But read this and see ...

    http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participa... says the following

    Overall limit on contributions

    Total annual contributions (annual additions) to all of your accounts in plans maintained by one employer (and any related employer) are limited. The limit applies to the total of:

    • elective deferrals
    • employer matching contributions
    • employer nonelective contributions
    • allocations of forfeitures

    The annual additions paid to a participant

  • San Diego, CA · Member since 2008 · 59 posts · 46 votes
    12y

    And there ya go. Good stuff, Walt. 

  • Real Estate Broker · MA · Member since 2013 · 361 posts · 297 votes
    12y

    Nice.. Too bad I don't plan on having a job again.

  • Investor · North Idaho · Member since 2011 · 332 posts · 107 votes
    12y

    Good information @Walt Payne 

    The $17,500 maximum is a hard and fast rule for employee deferrals as you've cited in IRS text.

    Employer contributions can technically exceed $52,000 but this scenario is extremely rare. The employer contributions must come from separate legal entities and tax IDs AND cannot be owned by the same individual. For example, if you are self-employed and have multiple businesses, you are still considered a single employer. The example cited by Walt from IRS.gov highlights that there are two separate employers. In that same example, the first employer could have also made employer deferrals of its own.

    That is how making it to $104K is possible. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y

    @Loren Whitney  Hitting the $104K max would seem about as likely as a unicorn citing by a sober, sane person. But ... exceeding the $52K limit might be very possible among a significant number of people on BP who work a day job. I project (hope? dream?) that I will be among those who are still employed but making enough to benefit from this knowledge next year. After that, well I will be joining @Phil G. as one who is only self employed and not able to benefit.

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