Is a title safe fom being stolen?

Question

I just saw a commercial for title monitoring of property titles. For about 33 cents a day they would monitor your title and help if someone forges a quick claim deed and steals your property.

Is this a real problem, is this something that we should be discussing to protect each other?

Tom Gimer · Answer

While I agree that title cannot be truly "stolen" because the actual owner did not convey, I would love to hear @Peter Walther chime in with any horror stories he has been involved with on the title claims side.Side note I refuse to pay for something just because the scare tactics used in marketing it are effective.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

we just had one were teh seller stole it and sold it to us.. WE got paid off by title insurance post haste.. they missed it. the person who did this will probably or is being criminally charged. But the question is we are now in title to the house.. the person he stole it from is a defunct LLC out of Australia ( when aussies were buying in mass 10 years ago or so).. they let the property go.

Peter Walther · Answer

In 2001, Defendants Julia Mentore and Nitza Jones acquired real property in Brooklyn. Joseph Nykian, as attorney-in-fact for Mentore under a power of attorney executed in 2001, and Jones mortgaged the property to Ameritrust Mortgage Bankers, Inc. In 2009, Mentore purportedly executed to Nykian a second power of attorney with expanded authority. Nykian, as attorney-in-fact, then purportedly conveyed Mentore’s interest to Jones who, in turn, mortgaged the property to MERS, as nominee for Lend America. The proceeds of the 2009 mortgage were applied to satisfy the 2001 mortgage. In 2010, Jones and Nykian were indicted for, among other offenses, residential mortgage fraud and forgery. The indictment alleged that they, acting in concert, forged the 2009 power of attorney and stole Mentore’s interest in the property. They pleaded guilty. Mentore, a Defendant in the foreclosure of the 2009 mortgage, asserted that as early as February 2014 she had advised the then holder of the 2009 mortgage that her signature on the 2009 power of attorney was forged, that the transfer of her interest to Jones was invalid, and of the convictions of Jones and Nykian. In September 2014 the 2009 mortgage was assigned to the Plaintiff, who commenced an action in 2015 for a judgment declaring that it held an equitable mortgage on at least one-half of the property. The Supreme Court, Kings County, while dismissing the complaint and declaring the 2009 mortgage null and void, granted the Plaintiff an equitable mortgage based on the doctrine of equitable subrogation for the amount of the pay-off of the 2001 mortgage. The Appellate Division, Second Department, affirmed the lower court’s ruling. According to the Appellate Division, “[a]s the defendant established that the 2009 deed was obtained by false pretenses and is void, the mortgage based on that deed…is also void [citations omitted].” Selene Finance, L.P. v. Jones, 2022 NY Slip Op 02145, decided March 30, 2022, is posted at http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2022/2022_02145.htm.

Steve Hyzny · Answer

I talked with another investor who did have the title stolen on a vacant property that was sold under a forged signature and fake notary stamp, it cost him 30K and a lot of time to fight it before the title insurance company paid off.I'm hoping not to have this happen as it seems no matter what it will cost you a lot of time and money upfront. Thats a problem with anything just because you are right doesn't mean it won't cost money to clear up.

Peter Walther · Answer

It does happen but the chances are statistically low. That said, as noted above, when it does happen it's the final "buyer" who suffers the loss, not the actual owner. If the buyer received a title policy, then (s)he will be reimbursed for actual losses up to the amount of the policy. I've dealt with deeds forged by family members and strangers and generally investigated them the same way. Track down and talk to the notary and witnesses and the real estate agent if one was involved in the transaction. If that didn't bring me a a definitive conclusion then I'd hire a questioned document expert for an opinion on the authenticity of the signature. None of this was at the owner's expense. I can't recall a single case where the allegation of fraud was found to be unsupported and the company paid the insured the covered loss.However, one of my last claims I handled before I retired was a deed by an ex-wife bearing where she had forged her ex-husbands signature. The company I worked for had insured a company owned by the ex-wife's father who had purchased it from the individual the ex-wife had conveyed to on the forged deed. The father purchased it to allow his daughter to continue making a living running the deli on the first floor of the building. I determined the company had liability for the matter and negotiated a $200k payment to the ex-husband for a deed. Before making the payment though, I explained to the father's attorney that if the company made the payment and suffered a loss it would probably file a criminal complaint against the daughter for the fraud. The father elected to make the payment himself rather than see his daughter charged.

Matt Devincenzo · Answer

Does it happen? Sure, is it something that results in you losing your property? Not that I am ever aware of. The 'buyer' is the loser in this case as they paid for something that wasn't available for sale, and as such have no claim to the property and are out their money. So other than the headache of having to deal with the situation if a random 'buyer' shows up on your doorstep, there's little impact to you. So I wouldn't be concerned with it at all.

Malcomb Stapel · Answer

@Steve Hyzny do you have a mortgage on the property? If so, that is protecting the title. The big issue here is that, even if you are completely in the right, and your property was in no danger of actually being stolen, it could create a real headache for you at a really inconvenient time. If you've even been in a car wreck that wasn't your fault, you'll know what I'm talking about. Just because their insurance is liable, doesn't mean your coming out on top or non severely inconvenienced.

Nate Marshall · Answer

According to the FBI and DOJ Matthew Cox who is in the commercials stole close to $50 million from banks. He has a You Tube channel and is also often on the Koncrete podcast. He wrote the synopsis that became the movie War Dogs because the guy from the real crime the movie was based on was in his cellblock at Coleman FCI.So you can learn a lot from both the Koncrete and Matt's own channel. He says it is easier to do it today than in 05-06 when he was on the Secret Service Most Wanted List. He was #1 on their list.

Peter Walther · Answer

I recommend you search "opinions on Title Lock" I found this article newest among many. Title Lock Insurance: How to protect yourself for free (fox5atlanta.com)

Peter Walther · Answer

I'd like to hear the facts of the investors claim because if (s)he was the insured it shouldn't have cost him/her anything. However, if the insurer had reason to believe the investor/insured was involved in the fraud they may have made the investor/insured provide some additional information before paying the claim.