Need a little... More... Cash... To finish rehab... Help!

Need a little... More... Cash... To finish rehab... Help!

Investor 路 Lexington, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 11 posts 路 1 vote
Okay fellow Big Pocketers, I got myself into a big pickle. I hope you can help! I recently purchased my first deal, a three unit rehab (in Hawaii so don't be alarmed by the numbers I'm about to share). We are going to live in one unit and rent the other two. We are 85% finished with the rehab but my problem is that I need a little more cash to finish the rehab and pay back some of the credit card debt and family loans that we took on in the process. Basically the problem is that I was operating under the assumption that as soon as I got into the house I would be able to get a home equity loan on the property to help me finish construction. But that has not happened this far. Here are the details: Purchase price: $760k Mortgage: 80% conventional 30yr fixed, 3.99%, based only on my income = balance of $608k Appraisal price (during escrow): $875k My W2 gross income = $8000/mo Payment PITI: ~$3200/mo Fair market rent: Unit 1: $3000/mo Unit 2: $1500/mo Unit 3 (our unit): $1700, but we are going to be living there. Utilities and other expenses: $1000 Rehab cost: To date (after 2 months): $85k Est rehab cost remaining: $15k Est FMV after rehab: $1M I need cash from a HELOC or other source to finish the rehab and pay back personal lenders: about $45k (needed within 30 days). During the escrow process the house (unrehabbed) appraised for $875k. Thus, I thought even with an 80% LTV I should be able to get $700k-$608k= $92k out. However, the first bank I applied to (after taking a long time deciding) told me that they had a policy of only accepting the purchase price as the value for properties that have been owned less than 1 year. So I went to another bank that apparently did not have the same restriction, AND allowed up to 90% LTV for their HELOCs. I thought it was a sure bet. However, they just informed me today that my debt to income ratio is too high and they cannot lend me anything. They cannot count my rental income because it is technically a single family home (renting multiple units out of a SFH is a very common thing in Hawaii). I think it may have had something to do with the fact that I had some significant balances on my credit card of about $30k at the time from rehab purchases (that I pay off in full every month and I told the loan officer as much). But the bottom line is that I am at a loss for what to do now. I've tapped out most of the family connections I can and would prefer not to go begging to other relatives if I don't have to. I am working with a mortgage broker to see if there is any other way to get a home equity or personal loan, or even do a cash out refi. But I figured someone in the Bigger Pockets community might have some brilliant creative financing strategies that would work in this situation. Can you please please help me figure this out?? Thanks in advance for any suggestions 馃槄 Anxiously yours, Duke
0Reply
80 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor 路 Northville, MI 路 Member since 2013 路 264 posts 路 183 votes
10y

 Do you have a significant balance 401(k)? If so, most employers will allow you to take a loan up to $50,000 dollars against your 401(k) balance. Interest rate would be low, under 4%, and the loan will be amortized over five years and have to be paid back in full in that time, which works out to be a little over $900 per month. 

See this reply in the discussion

24 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor 路 Northville, MI 路 Member since 2013 路 264 posts 路 183 votes
    10y

     Do you have a significant balance 401(k)? If so, most employers will allow you to take a loan up to $50,000 dollars against your 401(k) balance. Interest rate would be low, under 4%, and the loan will be amortized over five years and have to be paid back in full in that time, which works out to be a little over $900 per month. 

  • Buy and Hold Investor 路 Knoxville, TN 路 Member since 2013 路 450 posts 路 270 votes
    10y

    Sell a car? Honestly, I'd keep working on finding a bank that will do it. Have you talked to every bank in Hawaii? If not, then you are not completely out of luck yet. Focus on the local banks.

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Tempe, AZ 路 Member since 2012 路 874 posts 路 648 votes
    10y
    What was the closing date of the original purchase? If you had all of the funds you needed, when would the units be rent ready?
  • Bill ThompsonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Jamaica Plain, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 60 posts 路 88 votes
    10y

    @Duke Hartman I feel your pain.  Been there.  Done that. 

    To add to what @Ken P. said, taking out a loan from your 401K plan is a great option... you might even be able to spread the repayment over 30 years since the purpose of the loan is to purchase a house that you will occupy.  Regardless of the term, you can repay a 401K loan at any time without penalty.   

    Some other options to consider since you only need the loan for less than one year (assuming you can get a HELOC or cash-out refinance as source of repayment)...

    (1) Borrow from the cash value of your whole life insurance policy.  PROS:  quick access to cash and virtually no transactions costs.  CONS:  Interest rate is relatively high (expect 7% - 9%) and it compounds over time.  ONLY USE THIS OPTION FOR SHORT-TERM ("BRIDGE") LOANS because the compound interest effect is NASTY and the tax implications if you fail to repay is EVEN WORSE.

    (2) Use private money (i.e. borrow from friends and family):  If you know people with idle cash this is your best option because you set the loan terms.  Of course you should formally document the transaction with a note and pay reasonable interest to compensate the "lender" for use of their money and risk associated with the transaction.  

  • Investor 路 Lexington, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 11 posts 路 1 vote
    10y
    Hi guys. Thank you so much for offering these tips - I really appreciate it. Chris Eaker I will certainly keep talking to banks and hope to get one base hit, but my mortgage broker thinks it might be a lost cause. I need my car to get to work, so that ones out. Ken P. And Bill Thompson that is a great idea about borrowing against the 401(k). I will talk to my boss about it today :-) Dan Schwartz the closing date was March 31st. The units are really close to being ready. In fact I think the $1500 unit tenant can move in this weekend (already found one). We will start marketing the $3k unit next week once a few little loose ends are tied up (bathtub fixtures, hooking up appliances). The one thing I wanted to do before marketing the more expensive unit was to paint the outside in order to get top dollar, but I think I am going to have to forego that expense unless I can get more $$ now. Bill Thompson I do have about $21k in a whole life policy and was sort of considering that my last reserves. But yes, definitely agree with your points about the temporary nature of that money. And yes I think I will have to go begging to friends and family for the time being... Cash flow will get so much better in July but for now I guess I have to swallow my pride if these other options don't work. Thanks again - any other thoughts are still very welcome
  • Real Estate Investor 路 Tempe, AZ 路 Member since 2012 路 874 posts 路 648 votes
    10y
    Duke Hartman Good luck with it all. Very brave to bare all here. Here's what's going through my mind were I in a position to invest: You need $45K Only $15K of that is needed for the renovations The other $30K is owed to others (credit cards? Family? Friends?), so you are basically looking to refi. The bank couldn't refi as you had planned, do you are looking to go private. Can none of the existing creditors extend their term? I can see friends/family possibly needing their money back, but the credit card company? It's costly money, but they will usually let you carry the balance....and it's bound to be cheaper than what a third party would want in exchange for refinancing your existing debt. But this really isn't a debt play, it's an equity play. For you and for whomever might come on board. You identify $4500 in gross income when rented out, but have $4200 in expenses. There's no cash flow from which to pay the debt back. You need the bank to recognize your increased value so you can unlock the equity...or you'll need to sell if the bank doesn't want to play ball. The banks are telling you that a year of seasoning is required. You have 10 months to go. An investors money is going to be tied up with you for 10 months minimum, from what I see. You'll borrow $45,000 but only generate $3,000 cash flow (Max) in those 10 months. You need he bank refi. It's an equity play. If I were liquid enough to do so right now, if offer you the $45,000 in exchange for 10% of the property and the right to liquidate my investment on or after April 1, 2017 (when you can refi). Something along those lines, with extra protections for completion of the renovation, protection of the expected ARV, etc etc. Because you would have $45,000 of my capital, little-to-no cash flow to pay it back, that's what I would want. You'd finish the job, I'd get a handsome sum for helping you do it, and you would be left with an AWESOME property that two other people are going to wind up buying for you (not to mention continued appreciation expectations in HNL). That's my thought. Good luck to you!
  • Investor 路 Lexington, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 11 posts 路 1 vote
    10y

    @Dan Schwartz thanks for this tip. You are right that the gross income from the property is only $4500, with $4300 in expenses. But that frees up my $1700/mo in rent that I used to pay at my previous house. I will be dedicating that cash flow stream 100% to debt repayment. I appreciate the suggestions of an equity play, but I am hoping to preserve our equity and squeak it out somehow with only debt. Friends, family and/or fools seems to be my best bet at this point ;-)

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Tempe, AZ 路 Member since 2012 路 874 posts 路 648 votes
    10y

    :-).  It's an awesome deal.  Do hope it works out for you!  I'm sure it will.  

  • Newton, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 31 posts 路 2 votes
    10y

    If you have an entity, e.g., an LLC you might want to consider getting a SBA loan which might take two to three weeks to fund, if not perhaps you may qualify for a line of credit which if approved can get funded in a matter of days.

  • Investor 路 Fort Worth, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 107 posts 路 62 votes
    10y

    @Duke Hartman Message me and I'll send you a lenders contact info.  

  • Investor 路 Kapolei, HI 路 Member since 2016 路 17 posts 路 1 vote
    10y

    @Duke Hartman I'm here on Oahu and might be able to help. Send me a message with your phone number if you're interested. 

  • Ewa Beach, HI 路 Member since 2016 路 1 post 路 0 votes
    10y

    HOPE EVERYTHING WORKS OUT FOR YOU DUKE!!

  • Investor 路 Dallas, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 95 posts 路 14 votes
    10y

    Duke, I am not as knowledgeable or experienced in this arena as the other posters, but if they don't work out helping you, I do know some people that want to invest some money in real estate and maybe we can all work something out. I think they would be interested in what Dan Schwartz suggested about sharing 10% of the property, or some other creative compromise. I really feel for your position because I am also doing a flip and well, I can relate. 

    Feel free to message me. 

  • Stephanie MedellinBusiness Member
    Mortgage Broker 路 CA 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 644 votes
    10y

    Have you tried applying for a Home Depot project loan?  I haven't been to Hawaii but assume they have Home Depots there?  I think they go up to 25K.  Might even be interest free for the first few months.  This would be mainly for buying the remaining materials, and you'd be locked into buying them only from Home Depot, but one option.  If you need actual work done by contractors, you could probably use their contracting services too.

    Also check with other local stores about financing options.  For example, a flooring place might finance flooring purchase and/or installation.  An appliance store might finance appliances.  Not a long term solution but might help you finish and get the units rented.

    Stephanie Medellin, Loan Factory58 Reviews
  • Oahu, Hawaii. Investor & Realtor. 路 Member since 2015 路 95 posts 路 11 votes
    10y

    @Chris Eaker is right. When I had a falling out with a bank on my most recent deal, I got a hold of every bank and emailed just about all the loan officers on the island. Bank of Hawaii came through with the clutch and we closed on time and I got the property. 

  • Tzvi BalsamPro Member
    Investor 路 Brooklyn, NY 路 Member since 2016 路 226 posts 路 45 votes
    10y

    @Duke Hartman

    I had the same problem, when I bought my home so I maxed out my Credit Cards, And I am still in debt from it.

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Burlington, VT 路 Member since 2010 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Duke Hartman  Any update on this?  Been there too, and it's tough.  I went with a 401k loan, only 2 business days to fund it (electronic deposit to my account).  You just have to be comfortable with that risk, but could be a good option based off what you stated in this thread.

    Good luck,

    - Tom

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor 路 The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT 路 Member since 2009 路 6k+ posts 路 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jorge Manguane:

    If you have an entity, e.g., an LLC you might want to consider getting a SBA loan which might take two to three weeks to fund, if not perhaps you may qualify for a line of credit which if approved can get funded in a matter of days.

     Posters need to be more careful of their facts before they post such totally incorrect information.  SBA loans are provided to operating businesses, specifically EXCLUDING real estate investments unless the real estate is an integral part of a non real estate operating business.

    Further, 2 to 3 weeks to fund?  Where, in an alternate universe?  We provide interim financing all the time while borrowers are waiting for SBA loan funding.  2 months would be unbelievably fast, with 3 months and more much more likely.

    Having a LLC or any other entity has absolutely nothing to do with obtaining an SBA loan. SBA loans are made to sole proprietorships, partnerships, as well as legal entities.

    I just find it so hard to believe people are willing to post incorrect information so readily.  We are not talking about opinions, we are talking about incorrect information.

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Newton, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 31 posts 路 2 votes
    10y

    @Don Konipol, thank you for your thoughts, it does sound like you have extensive experience in the subject, so definitely appreciate your corrections. In my understanding having an entity such as an LLC classifies as a business, treated as such by the tax code. So, if it is a business and meets a minimum annualized monthly revenue (to be clear as to what I mean, taking an annual revenue divided by twelve), then yes, there are services that will lend to that business. It could be a different loan type than an SBA, such as line of credit, short term, etc... There would need to be a conversation with a financial specialist at the institution to determine the loan type based on requirements. And yes, if approved, SBA loans are funded within two to four weeks (I erroneously indicated two to three earlier).    See below:

    SBA LOAN

    FUNDING AMOUNT

    $5,000 - $350,000

    TIME TO FUNDING

    2 - 4 WEEKS

    TERM LENGTH

    5 - 10 YEARS

    PAYMENT FREQUENCY

    MONTHLY

    Again, I thank you for ensuring the accurateness of the post.   

  • Ewa Beach, HI 路 Member since 2013 路 145 posts 路 42 votes
    10y

    @Duke Hartman Have you considered Lending Club or Prosper for a P2P loan? Lending club will loan up to $40K. 

  • Investor 路 Lexington, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 11 posts 路 1 vote
    10y
    Alright everyone, thanks for the helpful suggestions. I think we have a happy ending in the making. The winning advice in my case was to keep knocking on the doors of local small banks and credit unions. I was recently approved for a $50k HELOC! Some credit unions are apparently much more lax about their underwriting, and even their basic requirements for lending (e.g. I found a credit union that did not require 6 months to season the property before lending a HELOC, nor did they really verify the fair market value other than checking the tax appraised value). So while I see victory in sight (loan should close in two weeks), I will certainly take this hard lesson with me: always remember equity, debt to income AND seasoning requirements when attempting to get a HELOC or cash out refi. Thanks again all! Aloha, Duke
  • Investor 路 Greenville, SC 路 Member since 2011 路 22 posts 路 5 votes
    10y

    Another PLUS, you're in HAWAII !!! Lucky duck :) Best wishes, sounds like it's worked out.

  • Real Estate Agent 路 Morro Bay CA 路 Member since 2012 路 38 posts 路 1 vote
    10y

    awesome! 

  • Jiva SegaranPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Easton, MA 路 Member since 2014 路 87 posts 路 22 votes
    10y

    Nice one Duke,

    hard to find anything  that can cash flow in Hawaii. I had to buy multi family on the mainland. Glad you were able to!

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.